propaganda, pure & simple.

Of the 3 movies, only saw Juno so can't size up the others.

Honestly, can't say I find an agenda in Juno.
I found it just a story. I don't feel it glamorized or promoted kids to go out & get pregnant & adopt their kid out.
Hey maybe I'm wrong but I missed that. I don't believe anyone thinks that to be a fun thing to do or enticing. Then again, maybe I'm not best one to ask being beyond that target audience (though I DO recall that age, not senile yet).

I believe propaganda ranges are extensive. It clearly can be obvious where they are knocking you OVER the head or barely noticeable--maybe subliminal.
For example, as much as I have laughed, been entertained (or almost always tend to agree with Michael Moore's documentaries) I think they each & every one reveal such. In fact, Sicko is one his detractors can MOST hold up (well again, they all are I guess) as a one-sided depiction of what's actually a very complex & involved issue.
Just because I tend to be of his mindset doesn't mean I can't be objective & know what his aim is. And for anyone who passionately lambastes him or gets irate, they are free to express it loudly, boldly & vociferously. I have no problem with that. It's great if one can not only hold to their values, commitments but express them well. I invite & enjoy such discourse & in fact, love a great debate (if worth discussion).
I would never suggest his work is anything short of slanted.

And yes, it's his right as it's every filmmaker's, to present WHATEVER they want & depict it to their particular aim, through their lens.
You can watch or turn off.
You can comment or stay silent.
Do whatever you care to as your response (as long as you don't hurt anyone!)

One thing I've never done is try to assert matter wasn't what I think is obvious to everyone it is. Not even here. I am just saying what I find to be fact.

But of course yes, this film also has a right to express a story they want to tell. I think to suggest it's one of ONLY a few to promote choice or abortion is not quite accurate but not worth debating. At least I know I've seen more than my fair share where I am not quite one in thought with the filmmaker, So what? Just is what it is.
Fortunately this is America where that is allowed, actually promoted, and I for one am VERY glad that's our right & freedom.

I am just saying again, I thought this was propaganda. I will hold to my opinion there & feel I can defend it. Naturally others are free to judge it otherwise (or be with me on this) for themselves.

I really don't have a coronary over this like suggested in second post, but it's OK if one finds I do, to each their own.
Honestly, I find it amusing for one to think I do, if they knew me, they would understand why that is. I allow others to their thoughts & positions. Thank God we're all different in that arena.
And seriously, I'm pretty tolerant by nature, starred LONG ago on my University debate team (as much as "starred" reeks of arrogance & immodesty---qualities I am not--it just happens to be true so thought I'd mention. Nothing really brag-worthy as preparation is what's MOST required & I'm NOTHING if not emotional, passionate & prepared. Achievement-oriented qualities for any highly charged "discussion". OH and let's not forget the MOST important asset, being able to listen to others & in the end, find out EXACTLY what they are not only saying but respect what's in there to respect).

Before being slammed for seguing, yes I am quite aware I strayed somewhat off topic but suppose in the end, I find it all interrelated.

I commented to begin with as I found the HUMOR not funny (worst offense for a comedy)& in bad taste. That is all really. So I thought I'd share my observation & knew there would be plenty of dissent. That's fine by me.

Of the 3 movies, only saw Juno so can't size up the others.

Honestly, can't say I find an agenda in Juno.
I found it just a story. I don't feel it glamorized or promoted kids to go out & get pregnant & adopt their kid out.
Hey maybe I'm wrong but I missed that. I don't believe anyone thinks that to be a fun thing to do or enticing. Then again, maybe I'm not best one to ask being beyond that target audience (though I DO recall that age, not senile yet).

I believe propaganda ranges are extensive. It clearly can be obvious where they are knocking you OVER the head or barely noticeable--maybe subliminal.
For example, as much as I have laughed, been entertained (or almost always tend to agree with Michael Moore's documentaries) I think they each & every one reveal such. In fact, Sicko is one his detractors can MOST hold up (well again, they all are I guess) as a one-sided depiction of what's actually a very complex & involved issue.
Just because I tend to be of his mindset doesn't mean I can't be objective & know what his aim is. And for anyone who passionately lambastes him or gets irate, they are free to express it loudly, boldly & vociferously. I have no problem with that. It's great if one can not only hold to their values, commitments but express them well. I invite & enjoy such discourse & in fact, love a great debate (if worth discussion).
I would never suggest his work is anything short of slanted.

And yes, it's his right as its every filmmaker's, to present WHATEVER they want & depict it to their particular aim, through their lens.
You can watch or turn off.
You can comment or stay silent.
Do whatever you care to as your response (as long as you don't hurt anyone!)

One thing I've never done is try to assert matter wasn't what I think is obvious to everyone it is. Not even here. I am just saying what I find to be fact.

But of course yes, this film also has a right to express a story they want to tell. I think to suggest it's one of ONLY a few to promote choice or abortion is not quite accurate but not worth debating. At least I know I've seen more than my fair share where I am not quite one in thought with the filmmaker, So what? Just is what it is.
Fortunately this is America where that is allowed, actually promoted, and I for one am VERY glad that's our right & freedom.

I am just saying again, I thought this was propaganda. I will hold to my opinion there & feel I can defend it. Naturally others are free to judge it otherwise (or be with me on this) for themselves.

I really don't have a coronary over this like suggested in second post, but it's OK if one finds I do, to each their own.
Honestly, I find it amusing for one to think I do; if they knew me, they would understand why that is. I allow & leave others to their thoughts & positions. Thank God we're all different in that arena.
How boring otherwise.
And seriously, I'm pretty tolerant by nature, starred LONG ago on my university debate team (as much as "starred" reeks of arrogance & immodesty---qualities I am not--it just happens to be true so thought I'd mention. Nothing really
brag-worthy as preparation is what's MOST required for notable winning record & I'm NOTHING if not emotional, passionate & academically well prepared. Achievement-oriented qualities for any highly charged "discussion". OH and let's not forget the MOST important asset---for success in almost every part of life-- being able to listen to others & in the end, find out EXACTLY what they are not only saying but respect what's in there to respect).

Before being slammed for seguing, yes I am quite aware I strayed somewhat off topic but suppose, in the end, I find it all interrelated.

I commented to begin with as I found the HUMOR not funny (worst offense for a comedy)& in bad taste. That is all really. And leading, in case others might feel the same or different.
So I thought I'd share my observation & knew there would be plenty of dissent. That's fine by me. I'll always say "bring it on" & not encourage discourse to be combative but to challenge & invite further introspection. Healthy for all us to do so.

Agreed, melissaped523.

There are so many movies about motherhood and pregnancy and it's magical transformative powers where the characters forgo abortions even though their child was conceived in less than desirable conditions ("Juno" as we've mentioned, "Blue Valentine", "Knocked Up", "Waitress" to name a few, though the list could continue endlessly) and yet I've yet to see a thread claiming these films are propaganda when they very well could be considered as such. (In these films the decision to have the child despite the conditions always ends well, the characters fall in love, big happy ending for all.... well maybe not in Blue Valentine. :p)

This movie happens to show the other side. Just because she was confident in her choice doesn't mean she was flippant about it either (the actual abortion scene shows this). Sometimes having a child just isn't the right choice for a person. (Notice that while her one night stand was shocked to learn about the pregnancy in her cringe worthy onstage confession, he doesn't exactly tell her to not go through with it either. Nor does he seem all that broken up about the whole thing. Funny how no one is mentioning this.) I think it's refreshing to see that side for once.

So, no, don't see how this is propaganda, but you're entitled to your opinion. :)






Thug means never having to say you're sorry.

You are free to whatever conclusions you come to.
If you feel they are, then to you, they are.

I see it more as a natural conclusion, natural order. of one getting pregnant (a baby follow unless measures are taken otherwise, or there's a stillborn or whatever).

I don't see all movies where abortion takes place as "propaganda" (I happen to see many, maybe due to seeing many foreign or indie films).
The reason I was so bold as to assert it here had more to do be the tonality & message, not JUST the subject matter.

I don't think there's disputing the scene where she is told "nah, doesn't hurt" by her friend to potentially impact (hypothetical but CAN happens, movies DO impact some!) other young girls who may be playing russian roulette with their bodies than take responsible precautions sexually (who can then say...well at least if it DOES happen, it might not be big deal--or PAINFUL--for me to manage).

I dunno that's a stretch to assert, that movies present material to communicate a viewpoint. At least if integrating an important matter, certainly one with its particular controversy.

But that's the long answer, sorry.

In short order, if you feel ALL depiction (whatever choice one makes facing a decision) is laden or had hint of propaganda, then it's for that individual to decide. I just happen to see it here. I realized some would, others wouldn't. I'm sure the writer wants to reinforce, at minimum, the choice that is left to each & every female. As is their right to do so.
It simply is my opinion & what I observe.
It's not a rare occasion that we all see different things in the same work presented to us.

This.

I agree with you. Just the fact that there are way more orphans than families looking to adopt is proof that that option is not all rainbows and sunshine.

It's just an unfortunate situation where there is no clear right answer. I wish we could all stop arguing about it. I don't think one person has ever been swayed to change their opinion on this matter by arguing about it.

Agreed!
And you actually did say it better.

I appreciate your information about the extra footage speaking to their obvious agenda with this film.
While I thought it could not be more blatant, others --often those that happen to agree with THE actual side they WANT seen represented--will try to make a case it has no bias.
Ironically, only when material is NOT in alignment with their views, then is they call it propaganda or labeled unfair (maybe even dangerous).
Dunno, but just what I find.
And to me, always funny.

All ---or certainly at least most (personally I think ALL, if not just subliminally)--film & art represents some particular objective & slant.

It's VERY rare you see completely objective material. If such even exists on an issue.
Even history is colored by those telling the story!

I would guess some would argue no exact truth exists in relation to abortion. When that's thoroughly false.
There are, always have been, some solid TRUTHS.

Heck, to this---now very scientific--day when everyone KNOWS better (for one, there are now ultrasounds & such),some people waste time STILL arguing the aspect of when LIFE begins!
Everyone's met them....those that like to toss around "just cells" (that I always say..pls just THINK &follow THAT thread[/i] to its obvious conclusion! ...............IF you believe "just cells", that's fine. OK....then WHAT?
Turns into a BABY at some point, no?

In the end, unless something HAPPENS (purposely or NOT), you can't say "cells" turn into something other than a person-- am I wrong there?

So oh yeah, pls let me know.......when is that then, exactly?

If one wants to state AT BIRTH, then I'd calmly say, that's your prerogative & perspective. Fine.
I don't happen to agree but I am not them; no point in talking about it.
Well I actually probably would NOT be talking about it! 😉

Now, those that, in fact, debate WHO chooses---at least to ME--make a FAR more compelling argument.
Who do I think I AM to tell them what to do?

So I realize initially, I might sound extreme when I am VERY far from that!
Nothing MORE complex & challenging than this issue, perhaps.

Think of all the unwanted & abused life out there as is. I don't have the answer or can promise things will be OK...who can do THAT? If they do, they are dishonest & not trustworthy people. Maybe well-intented but nope...not being 100% honest. Their motive is solely to save lives. At least I sure HOPE so, if not, they are horrible people. Saving a life however, must be a GREAT thing to do. I wouldn't know.

And so, yes, although I could never do this, I also understand when others argue this "life" is in someone elses. Just a fact...it IS until it comes out (so argument goes!)....therefore, that THIS person should decide...it's their body.
So yeah admittedly, I at least cognitively understand THOSE signs, in the streets & on TV.
I honestly get that part (both sides about WHO chooses debate)... hope most do.
What makes this SO complex & troublesome on a moral level.

It's VERY hard to stand in judgment & tell others what to do & NOT do!
Least it should be for most educated, feeling & insightful persons.

In the end, I often think I can't say it's anyone's place (but between them & their conscience or their GOD...if they believe in one). Then I think we are all our brother's keepers....so go out try to love, aid & assist each other here on earth. Easy job? Of course NOT!!
And yeah, help each other get to heaven, even those that do NOT believe in one right now. Who knows...maybe someday they will, maybe they'll change their minds. Maybe they also don't KNOW something they should. At least there is NO downside to education, information. Forced? NO, of course not but available? Absolutely!

Still ruminating, and so I move on to the poor baby (who, crazy enough I think goes to heaven anyway so maybe has it better without living & ending up worse off...but NOPE...life is full of potential TOO)...& yep...end up finding it ultimately morally bankrupt & in many cases, reprehensible.
Certainly irresponsible. Just a theme with this decision to begin with.

That's just me. Then yes, when you bring up rape & incest, it's a enormously gray area I dunno WHAT God thinks or why bad things happen at all!
Well heck....I think he values LIFE, I know I'm glad I'm here, but seriously troubling caveat, to put it mildly!

But I'm on tangent again.

The biggest problem that will remain to me with this film is exactly what you wrote, it projects a reality that is (at minimum) unrealistic, but also to me, offensive & ridiculous.
DO NOT make light & encourage women to have abortions. There's NO comedy to be had in this. Beyond dangerous & sick work at play here.

I know many women (of which I happen to be same sex) are brainwashed to believe it's empowering (let's celebrate women & their rights) but females, I see the opposite...totally misogyny!!
let's just not DEAL with some woman's problems, suffering or situation but eradicate (what can't be simply done as movie suggests).


And furthermore, NOTHING is easier for irresponsible men than the access to irresponsible sex with NO consequences on their end! Yes, almost all humanity has lustful thoughts, just the way it goes. Today very easy for action to follow thought. For all people.

I doubt many men feel anything but relieved IF it was lust, sex for sport, casual and/or they don't much--or at all-- care about the pregnant woman! More of that today than years gone by. Certainly due to Pill & abortions. Go ahead & have sex with anyone, you've little to worry about. I know that makes me sound ancient & old fashioned (am neither with regard to most things), it must be said so I don't much care.
You know what...that's a load of crap directed at guys too!
Consider the vernacular....what are YOU, a pussy? Who cares about decency, others, relationships, emotions... just peer talk of "I'd DO/HIT that".."go nail that"!
Sometimes not even HER but THAT...
people please THINK for simple fleeting second how altering ONE word objectifies a person?
What a sadly hedonistic, narcissistic world it is for some.

I certainly find it SO refreshing to know there are many men who are NOT that, have maybe even MORE principles, standards & high expectations of themselves & those in their lives. And often the women around them.
Not easy to pull off or learn in today's climate.

No question about it, that's a wonderful testament to ones character. Sign of strength, confidence & intelligence too. Even if NOT that young anymore, doesn't matter (sure SOME gems are!)...Bravo!! I know I'd NEVER settle for anything less. And I didn't... so lucky me, I got the grand prize.
But no, he & most can't read this much volume or endure repetition. I better get back to task of editing --oh and proofing--soon.
You clarified your thoughts in one tenth the time & effort. So smart & concise? Oh hell yeah, absolutely! 😴

The movie had a somewhat sweet ending, but it was obvious to both my wife and I that their relationship was doomed.

[deleted]

just interloper here.

So let me get this straight.
Sure you'd feel the same about yourself....your Mother could've done you this "FAVOR" & not allowed YOU to grow in this world.

I'm sure you'd be fine with that. Prefered she killed you then?
No? so I assume you then think differently (when it comes to YOU) about the definition of "selfish".

And before you claim you don't care (about being given gift of LIFE)...then why haven't you taken it yourself???
(NO..I'm NOT saying kill yourself but if you don't appreciate "growing in this world" why are you then here?).
Maybe ask that vital question.