MovieChat Forums > 11.22.63 (2016) Discussion > Some basic things to know about JFK's mu...

Some basic things to know about JFK's murder


JFK was killed by an amalgam of CIA/oil interests, with mob support, and complicity from VP Lyndon Johnson and FBI Director J Edgar Hoover.

Today, having the public know what essentially happened in Dallas seems to be just fine (as long as no one tries to actually do anything about it) because it communicates clearly to everyone "who rules".



** Oswald was set up as "the nut," the CIA routinely setting up official patsies in advance when committing assassinations overseas. Oswald was a low-level intelligence grunt who'd participated in the fake-defector program of the Cold War era and who was carefully framed in advance to take the blame.

** 95% of Oliver Stone's movie was based on the more responsible investigations of many researchers from the '60s to the '90s.

** While some continue to assert that "there's not one piece of evidence that anyone other that Oswald killed JFK," in fact valid evidence has fallen out left and right... Recently, infamous Watergate conspirator, E Howard Hunt, long-assumed complicit in JFK's death, left an audio and handwritten confession for his son, although only "Rolling Stone" would touch it and, later, Jesse Ventura; CBS' 60 MINUTES was going to do a piece on it, and had investigated and verified the portions which could be so verified (like the handwriting and voice) but word came down from the top of CBS that they weren't going to let 60 MINUTES run the story, no matter what they had.

So it was killed and shelved away.

** Whatever data in the official files hidden away for 75 years will, in all probability, not reveal the truth of the assassination, but will likely re-affirm comfortable Lone Nut lies, and maybe falsely implicate Castro and the KGB, insisting that such data "supporting" a Communist conspiracy had to be kept secret in order to avoid WW3 (which is what LBJ told Earl Warren to get him to participate in the commission that bore his name).

The records are never going to say, "Oh, by the way, LBJ, H L Hunt and Murchison and Texas oil, the CIA, the mafia, and the Cuban exhiles all colluded to kill the 35th President, with Hoover's FBI manipulating the Warren Commission's investigation... "

** LBJ was being investigated by Ways & Means for a long series of corrupt activities including skimming Texas Agricultural Commission funds for personal and political finance reasons, and local Texas murders. Bobby Kennedy at the Justice Dept could have suppressed this but didn't, and there was much backroom talk of LBJ either being off the 1964 ticket, or removed once JFK won re-election. LBJ was about to be destroyed and JFK's death would stop all of it. (Once JFK was dead, the necessary pressure was applied to end the investigations directed at Johnson).

** LBJ's well-known girlfriend, Madeleine Duncan Brown, (and mother of his spittin' image son, Steven, who died in 1990) and who spoke well of Lyndon Johnson until she herself died in 2002, nevertheless remained consistent for many years about LBJ's admitting complicity in JFK's murder (when asked by her on New Year's Eve 1963, he angrily insisted the Texas oil guys and the CIA had done it, yet it was evident to her that he'd known all about it, before and after the fact). Others from LBJ's law office have said the same thing essentially.

In Dallas, it was immediately understood that LBJ had green-lighted the assassination, if not planned it personally.

** LBJ had very, very close ties to the Texas oil guys involved, the mob guys involved, and, of course, J Edgar Hoover. In 1963, the men at the top of these groups were all a very tight circle (half of them literally vacationed together). And they essentially owned the CIA because that agency was up for the highest bidder (which meant oil and defense contractors). And you don't want defense contractors setting war policy in order to create an artificial market for their own product. But that's what was happening, and JFK had attempted to rein this in.

** Miss Brown and others have also admitted that the Viet Nam war went on as long as it did because of the profits being made by LBJ's buddies in the oil/defense-hardware business, and the kickbacks that LBJ and Nixon received over a period of years for prolonging the war while publicly stating their intent to end it.

** One of the reasons Oswald was sheep-dipped as a Communist, and thereby potentially framing the Kremlin and Castro in JFK's murder, was to create a huge public backslash to launch a nuclear strike on Cuba and even Russia.

Today, this sounds unthinkable, but in the Cold War hysteria of the late-'50s/early-'60s, many in the federal government thought this was not only doable but necessary --- the CIA and the Joint Chiefs approached JFK twice (in July 1961 and again in September 1963) to drop the Bomb on Russia, and he angrily refused... They believed that a unilateral strike on Russia was possible as long as it happened by late 1963 (or 1965 at the latest) because Russia's automated nuclear response system was supposedly still so shaky -- and even if Russia was able to get in a retaliatory strike, 30 million Americans lost was seen as acceptable collateral damage.

Even JFK's public success in preventing nuclear war during the Cuban Missile Crisis of October 1962 was deemed just another wasted opportunity by many hawks in military/intelligence.

Once in the White House, LBJ nixed any nuclear holocaust occurring on his own watch and dictated that the Warren Commission minimize Oswald's manufactured Communist connections. As a consolation prize, LBJ immediately ramped-up the lucrative ground war in southeast Asia (Vietnam was the biggest business in America by the late-'60s), a war Kennedy had been dragging his feet on and privately talking about pulling out of.

** The 2 presidents which followed JFK were in on his assassination, and the third (Ford) was a(n easily duped) member of the Warren Commission.

** The mainstream media still won’t deal honestly with the subject even after 50 years, insisting that "there's no irrefutable evidence of a conspiracy" and giving their stamp of approval to every book or documentary which exercises wild selectivity in its choice of data to "confirm" the Warren Commission's Lone Nut findings. Because the same dynamic still exists today: the oil and defense industries (and other corporate influences) are still setting federal governmental policy.

** 51 people at least heard and saw shots from the grassy knoll. Almost none were asked to testify, and the couple that were were dismissed with the old "echoes" rationale. Even a couple of Kennedy aides, Dave Powers and Kenneth O'Donnell, in the motorcade saw shots from the front coming from the grassy knoll, and both later told Senator Tip O'Niell that they'd been coerced into changing their story by the FBI because "you're wrong, and the family wants to get this behind them". And when the media runs assassination retrospective programs today, they never show you the widely-available footage (from multiple cameras) of the Dealey Plaza witnesses, both young and old, sprinting up the grassy knoll to look behind the fence, because the footage is too evocative of something other than a Lone Nut inside the Schoolbook Depository.

** Discussions of assassination amongst the guilty parties began as early as 1961 after the Bay of Pigs failure, dependent on what Kennedy did in office. Not only was Oswald trained in Russian as a private(!) in the service (which was only done for those being groomed for intelligence work), once he "defected" and then returned to America, he not only wasn't prosecuted as a traitor, he actually brought back a Russian wife (almost impossible to do at the time) and was never even de-briefed by any federal agency. All of which was unheard of for 1963. (In fact, the State Department gave him money for living expenses).

** Oswald had known Jack Ruby (with mob, CIA and FBI in his background) since the former was a child. And Jack Ruby had worked for Nixon during the McCarthy days.

** Terrified, Marina's verifying at the time that Oswald had attempted to shoot General Walker earlier in the year was something she was pressured to say by the CIA. (She has long since expressed her view that Lee didn't do it). And even the "package" Lee was duped into taking into the TSBD was too short to be the weapon, even when broken down... Marina admits to taking the famed photo of Lee behind their house (with the rifle and the Russian paper) and it is not a fake, but she's said he came home one afternoon and urgently asked her to take the photo as if he'd been assigned it.

** All the Dallas police initially identified the "sniper's nest" rifle at the TSBD as a German Mauser. Later, it became an Italian Mannlicher Carcano.


** Russia's KGB was, however, well aware of the plans to murder Kennedy by his own government, and the intention to use Oswald to frame the Communists. In order to preempt this, the KGB dispatched Richard Case Nagel, a double agent also with the CIA, to kill Oswald in advance to prevent it.


Nagel walked into a bank in El Paso, Texas in the fall of 1963 and shot thru the ceiling and then went and sat on the curb and awaited arrest by the local police in order to avoid his assassination assignment. He later nervously relayed this in 1967 to Jim Garrison, and this meeting was the partial basis for the "X" scene in Oliver Stone's 1991 film.


** Earlier in November, JFK's murder was scheduled to occur in Chicago, with mental patient, Thomas Arthur Valle, the intended patsy and an even better choice than Oswald. The scheme was foiled and re-scheduled for Miami on November 18, which was also stopped.


** None of the Parkland medical team recognized the "official" autopsy photos of the back of JFK's head showing it intact. They all described seeing a huge, grapefruit-sized rear exit wound when he was brought into the ER.

** JFK was beloved only by the public and (most of, if not all) the press. There was no single motive for the murder, but a myriad of them.

** As far as the "someone would have talked by now" argument, in fact plenty have. And no matter how credible, the mainstream media in the U.S. simply will not report it.

And why not?

The CIA now even admits that their Operation Mockingbird Program placed "friendlies" in the media to control the flow and tone of information (although they insist it was disbanded in the '60s because it had "failed"). In the '70s, even CIA Director Colby admitted that the agency had every journalists of note on their payroll (and while this was hopefully hyperbole, it certainly speaks to the agency's confidence that they had the press sufficiently battened down).

Also in the '70s, a CIA memo was leaked directing reviewers to use the same canned phrases and observations about any book released which addressed the conspiracy to kill JFK (e.g., "there's nothing new here;" this material has already been thoroughly de-bunked; there's a cottage industry in keeping the conspiracy theories going; the author has a well-known agenda; etc...). Phrases still widely used even today.

** When former president Harry Truman made comments in the press (only one month after the assassination, and suspiciously under-reported by the nation's newspapers) that the CIA had been doing things it wasn't supposed to do ever since he'd expanded the agency's power 15 years earlier at the behest of CIA godfather Allen Dulles, Dulles (who really ran the Warren Commission, not Earl Warren) asked Truman to retract his comments; when Truman refused, Dulles forged a retraction for Truman -- and then published it!!

** Watergate, ten years later, was largely about the assassination of JFK... Numerous key figures in Watergate (Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis) were in Dallas for the assassination in 1963 (which Hunt recently confessed to on paper and audiotape just before his death). Watergate was not so much about the break-in at national DNC headquarters, but attempts to protect the intelligence's black-operations, most notably, as Nixon cryptically said, "that whole Bay of Pigs thing" (an odd comments since everything about the Bay of Pigs had supposedly been public knowledge for a decade). It was a reference to what happened in Dallas, and led Nixon and CIA-demigod Richard Helms to essentially blackmail each other during the Watergate scandal regarding all they "had" on each other.

Nixon's White House aide, H R Haldeman, believed that "the whole Bay of Pigs thing" was a reference to the assassination, and was told by Nixon that fellow aide, John Ehrlichman, "knows all about it."

When asked by respected Republican senator Howard Baker what he knew about JFK's death, Nixon responded, "You don't want to know."

**In the mid-1980s, Howard Hunt sued a rightwing periodical, Liberty Lobby, which ran an article about Hunt's presence in Dallas on November 22, 1963. Hunt initially won the suit, and his win was broadcast throughout the American media (thus "validating" yet again the lone gunman scenario the establishment media is so fond of). But on appeal, Liberty Lobby hired famed JFK researcher Mark Lane who found ex-Castro lover and CIA moll, Marita Lorenz, who testified that she'd ridden with Sturgis from Miami to Dallas (in that muddy white Chevy seen roaming behind the fence on the grassy knoll) carrying guns a day or so before JFK was killed. They met E. Howard Hunt in a nearby motel who apparently was acting as paymaster.

Lorenz was sent home. A few day later, Sturgis wistfully admitted to Lorenz that they had killed Kennedy... Liberty Lobby won -- and Hunt lost -- on appeal, only this time there was no media coverage of the final verdict at all, even locally.

Twenty years later, of course, Hunt confessed to the entire thing shortly before his own death. A confession accompanied by essentially zero media coverage.

** Efforts have since been made besmirch the Kennedys' reputations over the years (given that a governmental conspiracy in their assassination is likely to eventually become accepted as historical fact) by making it look like they were the victims of a kind of "rough justice" or "blowback" brought about by their own supposed complicity in the plots to assassinate the Ngo brothers and Castro -- an implication which created some friction between the JFK and LBJ staffers. (Bobby, angry at the assertion, snarled "I didn't start it, I stopped it!", regarding the failed CIA/mafia attempts on Castro).

Also, JFK had demanded that the agency be broken up "into a thousand pieces" because it was now setting policy on its own (decidedly not the CIA's proper function) as they had done in the Bay of Pigs fiasco (during which they lied to Kennedy left and right) and in the assassinations of several foreign leaders not sanctioned by the White House, as in the Ngo brothers' murders in Vietnam. (Kennedy couldn't even get the agency, or his own ambassador to Vietnam, on the phone prior to the Ngo brothers' murders).

And then there's the showbiz gossip about Marilyn Monroe's death, also dumped at the feet of Jack & Bobby.

By making the Kennedys look in history as if they were behind all of this, it appears as if the assassinated Kennedy brother were in turn "assassins" themselves --- which isn't true at all, but is designed to make the public care less about what happened to them, and why and by whom.

And this may have been the most effectively subversive approach in neutralizing concern over what happened to JFK.


------------------------------------------

Just a potpourri of enlightening pro-conspiracy videos :

----
Oswald's killer, Jack Ruby, implicates LBJ in the assassination:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsZ59X2_46M


This is Part 9 of a British produced documentary "The Men Who Killed Kennedy", a flawed but admirable effort. The doc started in 1988, and has had additional chapters added over the years.

In 2003, three more chapter (7 thru 9) were added for the 40th anniversary of JFK's death --- but Chapter 9 in particular, "The Guilty Men", elicited such a response from LBJ's corner of the world, that The History Channel was pressured to remove it from the air, and even from Amazon.com, despite (or perhaps because of) the fact it was based on fairly good data. The British producer was even censured on the floor of Parliament for this 'travesty'.
(Even though Chapter 9 is the main object of suppression, they yanked Chapter 7 & 8 too, just for good measure, because they were the sections also completed in 2003). Here's Chapter 9:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8M-8CIPiI8

Here's an interesting ~80 minute interview with Madeleine Brown, the mistress of of LBJ (from 1948 to 1969) whose relationship to Johnson was known to all around him including the press corps and Lady Bird.

She addresses LBJ's complicity in JFK's death; she's never wavered on her story:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcXeutDmuRA

Here's the confession audiotaped for his son by infamous Watergate burglar E. Howard Hunt regarding JFK:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bknUDgKdEJQ



______

"In America, fascism will come in the form of anti-fascism" -- Huey Long

reply

While I don't really like diving into the George Herbert Walker Bush angle, because it always seems like OneTheoryToExplainEverythingInThe Universe...


Nixon owed his career to Bush's father, Prescott. Prescott and other super-wealthy American families helped Hitler, funded him, and they plotted FDR's murder in 1933 with the intent of installing a fascist, Hitlerian-style regime (for similar reasons JFK would be killed thirty years later) in America, and would have succeeded had the general they assigned the job, Smedley Butler, not spilled the beans to stop the coup.


The press tried to deride the highly respected Smedley Butler, making fun of him over the story. But FDR and the Congress took him quite seriously, and began public hearings on the conspiracy.


People should google "Smedley Butler/ The Business Plot/ FDR/ Prescott Bush"


So truth is stranger, and more damning, than fiction.


BTW: Jack Ruby worked for Nixon during Phase 1 of HUAC/McCarthyism.


And if the FDR assassination plot remains essentially buried after 80+ years, why should we expect a 30-years-more-recent assassination -- one which was actually carried out successfully -- to reach make the light of day?


Not that both aren't checkable, because they are. But if you can keep it out of the mainstream media, you've done your job at obfuscation.



Today, the CIA now occasionally admits to conspiracy --- only re-routing it onto the old "the Communists did it" ruse which they'd originally intended to use Oswald for (before LBJ, wanting to avoid the nuclear holocaust which some hawks in our government at the time thought was "winnable", nixed)?


There are renewed hosilities today between Russia and the US. And, in an apparent effort to flame them, the CIA came out with its "declassified" papers and revelations that Oswald visited Russia and Cuba just before he allegedly assassinated JFK.


Of course, Oswald's getting into Cuba never happened. And he was part of the fake-defector program both Russia and America had going at the time (which is why Oswald got back into America --- with a Russian wife, no less --- and not only was never even debriefed by any federal agency, but was given money by the State Department to live on! (When real defectors were immediately prosecuted).


But Russia's KGB was well aware of the CIA's plan to kill Kennedy, and they were also aware that Oswald was the intended patsy, sheep-dipped as a defector who supposedly planned to kill JFK for the commies.


Richard Case Nagell was a double agent between the CIA and the KGB, and the Russians were so afraid that Oswald was being used to set up the communists in JFK's upcoming murder, that the KGB gave Nagell the assignment to assassinate Oswald to prevent his being falsely blamed and, hence, the Soviets.


In order to avoid his orders to knock off Oswald by Russia, Nagell walked into an El Paso bank in September 1963, shot thru the ceiling, and went to sit on the curb outside until the cops showed up and whisked him away, thereby placing him in jail during the period of his assignment to kill Lee Oswald.


Richard Case Nagell was the basis for the "X" exchange in Oliver Stone's film (a composite character, based on three different people) although the 1967 conversation with Garrison took place in NYC's Central Park and not the Washington mall.


Old echoes in 2016:

Ted Cruz, only days after naming a running mate, suddenly pulled out of the Republican primaries the very day Trump entered the allegation about his father knowing Oswald into the campaign dialogue.


As the story goes:


Rafael Cruz was an employee of Zapata Oil, the CIA front for the Bush family. Cruz Sr moved to New Orleans which was the hub for Permindex the front for division five which led the assassination plot to kill JFK. Cruz was connected to LHO, David Ferrie, Clay Shaw, Guy Bannister L.M. Bloomfield. Though Cruz was probably a minor part in the plan, his Calgary, Texas and New Orleans residenses fit extremely well with these covert entities. Cruz Sr. had connections with people inside immigration and the Bush boy CIA to coverup up Ted Cruz's inability to become a legal U.S. citizen. Ted Cruz worked for G.W. Bush and his wife also.


The Bush network is very large and it's history goes back to the Grandfather Prescott Bush who teamed up with the financier Brown family. The Texas mafia included the Murchinsons, H.L. Hunt, Connaly, LBJ, who all had ties to the JFK assassination.




BTW: Conservative blogger Gary Welsh shot himself in the head, possibly twice from the rear and in a stairwell, that week. (He went after voter fraud, exposed Rubio's gay past, and was pushing the Cruz-JFK story). It's been ruled a 'suicide'.


The secret story of the CIA and what really happened in Dallas
The official narrative only gets more implausible, especially when you hear the stories of these secret super-spies



The official version of the Kennedy assassination—despite its myriad improbabilities, which have only grown more inconceivable with time—remains firmly embedded in the media consciousness, as unquestioned as the law of gravity.



http://www.salon.com/2015/11/22/inside_the_plot_to_kill_jfk_the_secret_story_of_the_cia_and_what_really_happened_in_dallas/



The OP posted this, but I'll post it again -- it's one of the most important documents in American history, but you'll never see it in the mainstream news media... LBJ's mistress on JFK:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcXeutDmuRA


-


reply

This is a forum about the mini-series.

Please don't POLLUTE it with off-topic (of the series) theories about the death of JFK. There are PLENTY of online places that are designed for such discussion.

reply

"Pollute"? How is JFK's death not relevant to the miniseries?

--
LBJ's mistress on JFK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcXeutDmuRA


reply

His death is sort of, but give me a break. NONE of what the OP or you wrote here has anything to do with this mini-series and its' discussion and you know it.

reply

"And (we) know it" ?? Just what do you think the miniseries is about?

If you don't like the discussion in this thread, then just avoid it.

--


reply

"And (we) know it" ?? Just what do you think the miniseries is about?

If you don't like the discussion in this thread, then just avoid it.


It's NOT about what you and the OP posted.

Oh I will avoid it, I'm just very tired of people posting stuff, truth or not, that has NOTHING to do with the show/movie, even if their contribution is (very) tangentially related to an event in the movie/show.

Again, forums like this are about the show itself and the cast etc, not theories. There are plenty of places that ARE for the theories on the murder of JFK.

reply

I hate to tell you this, but the topic isn't fictional, even though King's story is.

Besides, plenty of people on this board are discussing the assassination, opinions, historical inaccuracies of the miniseries, etc...

--
LBJ's mistress on JFK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcXeutDmuRA


reply

You're arguing with lunatics. Don't waste your time.

reply

[deleted]

And yet you're here.

--


reply

Everyone should see this landmark 1967 documentary, Mark Lane's RUSH TO JUDGMENT (1967). The chilling interviews are from the period, long before the topic became a cliche, and far more damning that "JFK" (the Oliver Stone film) made them out to be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w4sQtwWfBo



--
LBJ's mistress on JFK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcXeutDmuRA


reply

Agreed to OP; very well documented writing. This series was undoubtedly a propaganda piece to subtly embed deceptive lies inside the general people's heads, wrapped around with beautiful in time-traveling romantic drama.


??? It is not the Answers that Enlighten, but the Questions ???

reply

Pretty much, yes.

--
LBJ's mistress on JFK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcXeutDmuRA


reply

[deleted]

[deleted]

I think it was James Files. I watched several videos and it seems he is the one who fired the actual kill shot that killed JFK. They had other shooters in other locations, but his was the fatal shot.

reply

Trust conspiracy nuts to pollute this board. I didn't watch this for ages because I thought it would go with some lunatic theory about the JFK assassination. I should have trusted Stephen King's judgment. He's way too intelligent to believe all that nonsense and sticks to the plain fact - Lee Harvey Oswald killed Kennedy because Oswald was a guy who believed he was destined for greatness. Stuck in a rut he took the golden opportunity presented to him to stake his place in history when he read that the President's motorcade would pass right by his workplace. How could he resist?

reply

Trust conspiracy nuts to pollute this board. I didn't watch this for ages because I thought it would go with some lunatic theory about the JFK assassination. I should have trusted Stephen King's judgment. He's way too intelligent to believe all that nonsense and sticks to the plain fact - Lee Harvey Oswald killed Kennedy because Oswald was a guy who believed he was destined for greatness. Stuck in a rut he took the golden opportunity presented to him to stake his place in history when he read that the President's motorcade would pass right by his workplace. How could he resist?
Personally, I don't have a problem with people expressing their theories about JFK's assassination. It is closely tied into the mini-series so to complain about the conspiracy theorists being here is akin to going to a film board about the Manson killings and not talking about Charles Manson.

FWIW, I seem to be on the same page with you on whether Oswald acted alone. Although I used to believe that there was a conspiracy to kill JFK, I saw that the evidence supporting such a view is just not there.

So, yes; I think the subject is appropriate, even though I might not agree with many of the views presented.

reply

In the 90s I had a history professor who mentioned that LBJ had something to do with Kennedy's assassination. A year or two later the professor was fired for some of his other not PC views, even though he was a pillar of the local Presbyterian church. He was ready to retire anyway.

With the IMDb boards shutting down, this is probably one of the few that has worthwhile stuff to digitally archive.
BTW, I hang out at http://forums.previously.tv

Since they're shutting down here, I'm tempted to post ban-worthy stuff, but there are enough lunatics doing that already, and it's just not a pretty look.

reply