A sociopath or a psychopath? - Nightcrawler (2014) Discussion

[–] sparklecopy2 10 years ago

i'd diagnose him as regular human being. This is how most humans are.

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[–] johmil-18374 9 years ago

Wow I thought I had a cynical view on humanity. No its clearly something wrong with him, and the movie doesn't want to hide that fact, but in his new line of job his trait makes him flourish (in the only meaning that he succeed financially and is able to use his psychopathic traits).

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[–] juanarturo-96244 9 years ago

There's a line in the movie that is not there for nothing. The main character says to his employee, and I''m paraphrasing: "What if it's not that I don't understand people, but that I don't like them?" This clearly makes the distinction between someone with Aspergers or within the autistic spectrum, and a psychopath. The scriptwriter clearly wanted to convey that the main character is a psychopath.

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[–] mmserrano4 9 years ago

No, Rick, or even Bill Paxton, are how most humans are. He's some sort of crazy.

All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain...

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[–] not_a_virus.exe (1267) 6 years ago

If most human beings were like that then most characters in the movie would have been no different. Derpy derpy.

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[–] TastemasterAweemaway 10 years ago

In psychology, "psychopath" and "sociopath" have the same meaning. Both refer to a person who is suffering from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorderantisocial personality disorder," which is "characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for, or violation of, the rights of others."

A key identifying trait is lack of conscience/remorse. Clearly the main character lacked conscience/remorse. Judging by his actions in the movie, it is quite likely that he would be diagnosed as a psychopath/sociopath.

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[–] SophieSlut 10 years ago

Indeed.

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[–] DendelionBlu 10 years ago

Yeah, indeed. Totally

Let's all fetch our diagnoses on how people feel and think from 2 lines on Wikipedia

Keep it up you guys

Come to think of Jake Gyllenhaal's character - which you're labeling as a psychopath - got all is eduction from the very same place that you guys are trusting for your definition of psychopath and sociopath

Nice going

Follow the latest films around the world!! http://7films.dendelionblu.me

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[–] SophieSlut 10 years ago

Regardless of whether it came from Wikipedia, it's still true.

Psychopath and Sociopath are both defunct terms for Anti-Social Personality Disorder.

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[–] Lady_Elaine_Fairchild 9 years ago

How about The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition ?

There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation
of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three
(or more) of the following: having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from
another.
1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest.
2. Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases,
or conning others for personal profit or pleasure.
3. Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead.
4. Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults.
5.Reckless disregard for safety of self or others.
6.Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations.
7. Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing

Ticks every box save for #3 and #6
But particularly ...

Pathological personality traits
in the following domains:
1.Antagonism, characterized by:
a.Manipulativeness: Frequent use of subterfuge to influence or control others; use of seduction, charm, glibness, or ingratiation to achieve one„s ends.
b.Deceitfulness: Dishonesty and fraudulence; misrepresentation of self; embellishment or fabrication when relating events.
c.Callousness: Lack of concern for feelings or problems of others; lack of guilt or remorse about the negative or harmful effects of one„s actions on
others; aggression; sadism.
d.Hostility: Persistent or frequent angry feelings; anger or irritability in response to minor slights and insults; mean, nasty, or vengeful behavior

As a renaissance chick, I paint, write, and sing loudly off-key.

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[–] actionmanozzie 9 years ago

In my experience and study, even though both have similar meanings and/ or connotations they are actually very different one from the other.

A psychopath is someone who will more than likely act out on their impulses and become the "murderer/ rapist" etc...

While a sociopath is someone who dreams of such and only "acts" a certain way disregarding others feelings entirely.

I hate to say it but often people of the autistic spectrum have sociopathic tendencies while they are not most often "psychopaths"... They have a hard time empathizing and thus appear to not care (and many of them don't...)

Think of it this way-
A sociopath is someone like "Sherlock" from the series

A psychopath is someone like the character in this film, manipulating to the point of killing to get only what they want.
or
Victoria from Revenge (because she moves into murder later)

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[–] LaLlama 8 years ago

have sociopathic tendencies while they are not most often "psychopaths"... They have a hard time empathizing and thus appear to not care (and many of them don't...)

Outdated and in many ways offensive myth about people in the Autistic Spectrum. It's not that autists can't empathize, they just experience difficulties communicating emotions with others.

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[–] Strazdamonas 9 years ago

No, they do not. While they are both a Antisocial personality disorder, but they have differences.

It’s not easy to spot a psychopath. They can be intelligent, charming, and good at mimicking emotions. They may pretend to be interested in you, but in reality, they probably don’t care.

“They’re skilled actors whose sole mission is to manipulate people for personal gain,” Tompkins says.

Sociopaths are less able to play along. They make it plain that they’re not interested in anyone but themselves. They often blame others and have excuses for their behavior.

Some experts see sociopaths as “hot-headed.” They act without thinking how others will be affected.

Psychopaths are more “cold-hearted” and calculating. They carefully plot their moves, and use aggression in a planned-out way to get what they want. If they’re after more money or status in the office, for example, they’ll make a plan to take out any barriers that stand in the way, even if it’s another person’s job or reputation.

The main character of this movie was most definitely a Psychopath.

---------------------------------------------
Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

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[–] danavenell 8 years ago

Some experts say they are the same thing. Others say there are differences. And a few are skeptical of whether psychopathy or sociopathy are real things.

Personally I think they are basically interchangeable terms, with individuals having different behaviours that will still make them score highly on the Hare test (which I score quite highly on myself btw - but not enough that I have no empathy, luckily - although how do I really know how much empathy other people genuinely have?)

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[–] Orcsquisher (11) 6 years ago

[deleted]

[–] BurningSun (717) 5 years ago

I studied this in college. There are actually quite a few differences between sociopathy and psychopathy, although they do share many similarities. For starters, it is most commonly accepted that sociopathy is more of a learned behavior shaped through abuse or psychological trauma, whereas psychopathy is a genuine mental disability of sorts that the sufferer is born with. Sociopaths are capable of feeling remorse, but usually cant understand or manipulate human emotion. As a result, many sociopaths are often misdiagnosed as having Aspergers or high functioning autism. Psychopaths can understnad and manipulate emotions with ease, but don’t truly feel that way. For example: a person can tell an unfunny joke and a genuine kneeslapper. The sociopath would recognize both jokes but doesnt understand what made one joke bad and the other good, nor does he feel any genuine emotion from either jokes, so he just says “good one”. The psychopath would register both jokes and not find either even remotely humorous, yet both times he responds with a very convincing laugh and can even be brought to tears through his own masterful manipulation.

Jake Gyllenhaal plays a psychopath in this movie. He is a man who lies, cheats, steals, and manipulates with absolutely zero remorse. He knows exactly what to say and how to say it in order to get out of or get into any situation. He also sees zero flaws or moral issues with his ideology, and thinks everyone should be like him, backed by the very last line of the film: “ I would never make you do anything I wouldn’t do myself.”. The only thing he does that doesn’t line up with psychopathy is a brief moment where we see him smash a mirror in a furious rage. A real psychopath couldn’t have cared less and wouldn’t get angry like that. However, a sociopath would. The character isn’t a sociopath because a sociopath would’ve felt remorse.

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[–] BenignPillows 10 years ago

Yeah I'm saying psychopath as well. It is not completely identical with antisocial personality disorder. Mostly it is seen as a subgroup (like, the worst of the antisocial PF's), but it is not an official diagnosis.

One alternative might be Asperger's syndrome (autism spectrum disorder). I mean, his language - the way he almost constantly lectures. Even running away, he talks away like a professor to Rick, and he almost never shows emotions, he's completely business like with everybody. Also, like Rick says, he doesn't understand people. People with Asperger's syndrome can often have problems with empathy as well. Plus, he has VERY restricted interests...

He is just too cunning and glib, though. Hearing him talk to people, you think they're going to chuck him right out (like how he treated Nina!) - but they don't. Not all of them, anyway. He actually achieves his goals. Maybe he does understand people then, like how to manipulate them. (He just doesn't like them..)

Yeah, so I'm gonna go with psychopath.

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[–] TastemasterAweemaway 10 years ago

You make a great point about Asperger's... the professor-like lectures and the apparent inability to identify others' emotions are Asperger's hallmarks.

In fact, I would diagnose Asperger's as an underlying condition. I just think Antisocial Personality Disorder is more significant in Lou's case, given he murders and whatnot.

BTW, I'm no expert -- just a psychology buff.

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[–] TastemasterAweemaway 10 years ago

This thread helped me realize that Lou's apparent combination of Asperger's and Antisocial Personality Disorder is what I don't like about the movie. I just don't think those two are a realistic match. Then I found this (which certainly appeals to my confirmation bias):

While it is possible to be both an Asperger and a psychopath, it's highly unlikely, because Aspergers lack one major component needed for psycho/sociopathy, Cognitive Empathy.

There are 3 types of empathy:
(A) Cognitive Empathy - understanding the thoughts, motivations ect. of others'.
(B) Affective Empathy - sharing the love, pain, grief etc. of others'.....what laymen call empathy.
(C) Empathic (or Empathetic) Concern - what laymen call sympathy.

Psycho/sociopaths have very strong Cognitive Empathy, without which they would not be able to manipulate their victims (one of their primary characteristics), but they have an almost complete lack of the other two. Aspergers are virtual polar opposites, being deficient in (A) but having little or no issue with (B) or (C). NB: Aspergers may display (B) and (C) differently due to a comorbid condition called Primary Alexithymia, but these emotions are still there.

Because most people do not know of or understand the dichotomy of empathy into these 3 very different forms, they draw parallels which just aren't there. A Psycho/Sociopath without Cognitive Empathy would be like a Jumbo Jet without wings...something completely different entirely. Conversely, an Asperger with strong Cognitive Empathy would never receive an Asperger's diagnosis in the first place because they would simply not suffer the social deficits required for an Asperger's diagnosis. A very small percentage of Aspergers may be violent, but that still doesn't make them a psycho/sociopath. Even if an Asperger were to become a psycho/sociopath, it's unlikely they'd still meet the criteria to be called an Asperger, which would call into question them ever having truly been an Asperger in the first place.

source: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120206210304AASIdw2

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[–] jonathonwisnoski-856-217430 10 years ago

This really seems like an argument that is caught up in misconceptions.
People do not actually fall into categories like that. Medicine creates categories to try and add a little order to the chaos. These is nothing preventing a psychopath from not being very good at CE, for them it is just a learned skill they develop to survive, some will be better at it than others. Perhaps, it would differentiate him enough for him not be be labeled as a psychopath, but non empathy for hurting others does not rely on being an expert manipulator.

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[–] nolanfan 9 years ago

"People do not actually fall into categories like that. Medicine creates categories to try and add a little order to the chaos. "
That is an amazing statement with great insight. Are you in mental health? If not, you could have a bright career. It takes most years to come to the same conclusion. You can't cure the chaos, but stabilize. Again, bravo!!! This person wins the argument

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[–] jonathonwisnoski-856-217430 9 years ago

I'm not in mental health. But thank you for your praise.

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[–] goo-goo-ga-ga 10 years ago

Aspberger's and anti-social personality disorder are two very different things. It's an unfortunate misconception that people on the autism spectrum lack empathy. They don't. Their feelings are as profound as the average person's. They simply find social expression more challenging.
It's possible he has both. Psychopathy is a personality disorder while Aspberger's is a developmental disability.

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[–] jonathonwisnoski-856-217430 10 years ago

It's a misconception that sociopaths lack feelings. Their feelings are as profound as everyone else's, they just lack shame is hurting others.

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[–] Lady_Elaine_Fairchild 9 years ago

Hearing him talk to people, you think they're going to chuck him right out (like how he treated Nina!) - but they don't.

You are right in your last sentence IMO He does understand people-to a fault. He immediately sizes up their strengths and weaknesses and uses them to his advantage. Emotions just get in the way of that.

Is not right or wrong He was born that way.

As a renaissance chick, I paint, write, and sing loudly off-key.

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[–] BenignPillows 9 years ago

You are right in your last sentence IMO He does understand people-to a fault. He immediately sizes up their strengths and weaknesses and uses them to his advantage. Emotions just get in the way of that.

Yeah, that's why I went with psychopath instead of Asperger's.

I guess this is why they usually say (intelligent) psychopaths shouldn't be allowed into therapy - all they do is learn new ways to manipulate people.

-----------------------
"The best fairytale is one where you believe the people" -Irvin Kershner

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[–] Michael71 10 years ago

I think he was a pyschopath, he probably had schizophrenia or something.

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[–] Silent_Bob01 10 years ago

Ugh. Don't go throwing around terms without understanding their meaning.

Schizophrenia is completely different from psychopathy. Schizophrenics are mentally ill and need to be treated with medication. Psychopaths are NOT mentally ill...they're simply very dangerous personality types.

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[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Lady_Elaine_Fairchild 9 years ago

He did not show even one symptom of schizophrenia what are you referring to?

As a renaissance chick, I paint, write, and sing loudly off-key.
Conceive Deceive or Leave

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[–] Boni-The-Sock 10 years ago

Some understand that the main difference between psychos and socios is that psychos can't control their urge to kill. Socios, on the other hand, don't feel this urge to kill, they just despise other human beings, and dislike most of human interactions. They do whatever it takes to survive, even if it means to kill (which doesn't mean they enjoy it).

In other words, psychos are sick people without conscience who lack guilt or/and empathy. Socios are antisocial criminals capable of anything.

English is not my primary language, but at least I speak more than you.

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[–] franzkabuki 10 years ago

I'm sure the place is swarming with "experts". And why the f-ck would anyone even want to analyze this piece of sh-t? Sociopath, psychopath... ain't much difference.

"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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[–] Silent_Bob01 10 years ago

Why? Because it was a fascinating movie and Gyllenhaal's performance was brilliant and layered. He used a facade of a dorky, awkward individual to mask the fact that he was a pure psychopath (and yes, a scumbag).

I think that's worth exploring. It's not like this was some mindless action film like The Expendables. Not that I don't enjoy mindless action, but there's nothing to analyze there, UNLIKE with a film like Nightcrawler.

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[–] jenlaben 10 years ago

^^^ What he said! It was an amazing film and I was fascinated by Lou's actions and reactions throughout.
That's how I ended up here! :-)

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[–] PorcelainX 10 years ago

I would classify him like a movie monster. A caricature analog of human behavior lacking the depth or realism of it's sources of inspiration. Kind of like how The Creature from the Black Lagoon could just be an analog of a lecherous unattractive person, or King Kong could be a combination of archaic racial stereotypes and a violent criminal. The character has no backstory, so has no dots to be connected. What's presented seems to be mixture of Autism, Antisocial and Sociopathic behavior. The problem is these don't typically fit together and and If his character is taken as anything to define reality by, one might look at someone on the autistic spectrum and think they have no empathy, morality or remorse or even be capable of murder, which is not the case. Taking reality into defining the character would mean that his definition defined an aspect of reality, which he probably doesn't. However, taken as a fictional person (which he is) he wouldn't be as compelling if he made sense. He's a high functioning, non empathetic, Autistic Sociopath. A unicorn of dysfunction.

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[–] jonathonwisnoski-856-217430 10 years ago

Like others have said, sociopath/psychopath are basically synonyms. But, in practice psychopath is used to describe a criminal sociopath.

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