MovieChat Forums > Omar (2013) Discussion > In case you have any doubts - A Jew tell...

In case you have any doubts - A Jew tells the truth about Israel

posted 11 years ago by czarekxx
23 replies | jump to latest

His name is Miko Peled, he's a son of a former Israeli general.
He wrote a book about the situation in Israel, gives interviews and lectures on this topic. He's promoting a peaceful solution to this conflict. Great man.

Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miko_Peled

Interviews with him on YT:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Miko%20Peled&sm=3

For the record: I'm not Palestinian, not even a Muslim. I also don't have anything against Jews, gays, etc. But I do support Palestinians.

[–] Dolphin157 11 years ago

A peaceful solution does not exist in this situation. The "palestinians" don't want peace. They want Israel destroyed and Israelis dead

[–] Pavlin81 11 years ago

@Dolphin157:

Oh, please. Tar an entire group of people with the same brush much? Even IF all Palestinians “want Israel destroyed and Israelis dead”, as you claim, why do you think that is? Individuals don’t loathe others just for the hell of it. Hatred doesn’t come out of nowhere. There’s always an explanation for it (such as unfairness and oppression). Evil isn’t born, it’s made.

Israel is an occupying force. The Gaza strip in particular is basically an open-air prison. Moreover, one could, and quite rightly so, say Israel upholds apartheid policies towards Palestinians: e.g. daily humiliation and degradation; no freedom of movement; house searches without warrants; imprisonment without trial; extreme poverty; lack of clean, affordable water and adequate medical supplies; control of import/export; splitting up families, communities and friends (through their separation policy and the existence of the seperation wall – the latter was central to the film’s narrative). The list goes on and on. And on top of all that, there’s the systematic land and resources theft by Israel.

Yes, there is undeniably very strong anti-Israeli sentiment among Palestinians (with good reason), but I don’t believe that they all want the complete annihilation of Israelis/Jews and utter destruction of Israel. Terrorists/freedom fighters (depending on how you look at it) may have support and admiration among many - especially young men - because their future is very bleak and they just want the occupation by Israel, the unending misery, the injustice to end. They naively believe that violence is the only way to accomplish that.

Be the change that you want to see in the world.-Ghandi

[–] fredrik-henningsson-1 11 years ago

Very well said. I haven´t seen the film yet, but I´m very excited about it.

[–] daniel4242 10 years ago

From verlegenvlinder1981:
"Even IF all Palestinians “want Israel destroyed and Israelis dead”, as you claim, why do you think that is?"

Because their religion tells them to. It's pretty simple. It's not the answer you want, but it's the truth.
It's the same reason they stone women who commit adultery. It's the same reason they make women cover their faces (we can't have impure thoughts, after-all). It's the same reason they fly planes into buildings because 40 virgins are waiting for them. It's the same reason they release edicts hoping for death to anyone who "blasphemes" their "religion of peace". It's the same reason they bomb Marathon's. It's the same reason their has been no progress in those countries for 1600 years. It's the same reason they despise science, rational thought, and reason. It's the same reason they despise the West and all their evil modern conveniences. It's the same reason they despise Israel. Now you get the point? The Muslim's who despise Israel are the most religious of them all.

As with Christians & Jews, the best Muslims are represented by those who accept and practice it the least. Unfortunately it is such a religious territory that Israel does all it can to protect itself. You really think the U.S wouldn't get along with Israel if they are neighbors? Stop and think about why they WOULD. That should get you the answer you need.

[–] robertpee 10 years ago

From Daniel 4242

"Because their religion tells them to. It's pretty simple. It's not the answer you want, but it's the truth."

Not all Palestinians are Muslim.

"It's the same reason they stone women who commit adultery. It's the same reason they make women cover their faces (we can't have impure thoughts, after-all)."

Gaza has an Islamist government. The West Bank does not.

"It's the same reason they fly planes into buildings because 40 virgins are waiting for them."

Most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis. The ones who weren't Saudi, were Egyptian.

"It's the same reason they bomb Marathon's."

The Boston bombers were Chechen.

" It's the same reason their has been no progress in those countries for 1600 years."

Actually, the Arab world is known for keeping the ideas of scientific enquiry first put forward by the Greeks alive during the Middle Ages, and expanding them through discoveries in medicine, chemistry, etc.

Now do you get the point?

In case you missed it, it's this: you're an ignoramus.

[–] daniel4242 10 years ago

Nice point, so most of the crazy "assumptions" I made were wrong. None of the people causing pain & terrorism in this world are Muslim? Yea, right.

Defend whatever you want. You are the Ignoramus.

As far as Scientific Inquiry, they haven't done ANYTHING positive since saving Greek books from being burned by Christians. I wonder why they "nationalized" oil back in the 50's? Because they were too simple to discover it on their own. If you can't achieve something on your own...steal it from someone else, right?

Too funny, the Saudi's and Egyptians have nothing philosophically in common with those fighting against Israel in the West bank? Wow?!

Anyone have anything interesting to add to this discussion?

[–] niscaty 10 years ago

@robertpee
His point was that they're Muslims, not Palestinians so why argue that point by saying

Most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis. The ones who weren't Saudi, were Egyptian.

and

The Boston bombers were Chechen.

Yes they were what you said and Muslims.
Jeez, logic is not your cup of tea.

[–] velli10501 9 years ago

Excellent. You kept your kewl and simply corrected the egregious inaccuracies. Your response is a lesson.

[–] ufancat 10 years ago

There isn't a religion in the world all of whose practices or dogmas stand up to scrutiny. Not all Muslims stone people. Not all Muslim women's faces are covered - and actually, that's a local custom, not religious-based - there's nothing in Islam that requires it. "Modesty in dress" is what's required - it's interpreted differently in different regions.

I seriously doubt that anyone who participated in the 9/11 attacks did it for the sake of 40 virgins waiting for them. Political reasons, because their community required it of them, or whatever - not 40 virgins. Most people - even religious fanatics - are not that dumb. The 40 virgins are just a perk.

Far as I know, the motivation for the bombing of the marathon was political, not religious. Just like several other bombings over the years, e.g. in London, Dublin and Northern Ireland by the IRA, UVF, etc.

Part of the problem with people despising Israel is that Israel doesn't really have the moral high ground here. Not with the way they've been treating the Palestinians. Portrayed quite graphically in this film, I might add. You don't have to be Muslim to disapprove of what they're doing. And if they had the US as a neighbour, I doubt very much they'd be waging war on them to try and increase their territory, any more than they'd be staging preemptive strikes.

PS I'm not a Muslim, or related to any. I just know a lot of them, and am proud to have Muslims among my friends.

[–] JB_Alaska 10 years ago

Lets just check a VERY few passages from the Koran:

Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98

On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161

Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191

Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39

Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216
(different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

..... martyrs.... Enter heaven - Surah 3:140-43

If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8

You must not think that those who were slain in the cause of Allah are dead. They are alive, and well-provided for by their Lord. - Surah 3:169-71

I love the last one, it basically translates to: "Kill um all and let God sort them out" There was a time I had to agree with that... Approximately 1969-1971

So you may be proud to have Muslim friends, but unless your also Muslim... It's a one way friendship :(

[–] ufancat 10 years ago

Let's not leave out the Bible!

Deuteronomy
7:1-2 When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations... then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.
20:10-17 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves... This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them — the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites —as the Lord your God has commanded you.
Leviticus 25:44-45
Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
Exodus 2:11-12
One day, after Moses had grown up, he went out to where his own people were and watched them at their hard labour. He saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his own people. Glancing this way and that and seeing no one, he killed the Egyptian and hid him in the sand.
II Kings 2:23-24
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

And don't speak for my friends - you don't know them.

[–] JB_Alaska 10 years ago

When someone quotes Deuteronomy to me, the first thing that comes to my mind is..."Yup, he's a Lawyer, and I say unto him, come out beyond the city gates to commune with my friends down the path. As he walks the path, the Lord will provide 2 Bears to enter into the abomination of truth and brotherhood!

Oh and sorry for the misunderstanding, I did not "speak for your Muslim friends... I was speaking badly ABOUT your friends, Huge difference...Truly!

"This was done in cold blood by people who claim to be civilized...Civilized!!, They're degenerate, immoral idiots. Stinking little savages. Wipe them out I say! Wipe them off the face of the earth!!" Henry Hull, Objective Burma (1945)

[–] OtisLovesUs 10 years ago

verlegenvlinder1981,

It's 2014, in case you were unaware, the Israeli's pulled out of Gaza completely in 2005--over nine years ago. What they got as a prize was constant rocket attacks on their civilians from Hamas. You heard of them? They are the ones the Palestinians of Gaza elected to lead them. In the very charter of Hamas, they state explicitly that their goal, their duty, is the complete elimination of Israel. The peace-loving people of Gaza elected their own prison guards: Hamas.

As to your statement that "Evil isn't born, it's made." You couldn't be more correct. Palestinian children (Gaza and West Bank) watch cartoons on TV that constantly teach them that Jews are evil, that they are the descendants of apes and pigs, and that it is the Palestinian's highest duty and honor to martyr themselves while killing Jews. They learn this in school from day 1.

Parents routinely tell their children (whom they purport to love) that they want them to martyr themselves.

Somehow Bill Clinton was able to convince Ehud Barak to essentially give away the store to Arafat back in 2000. It was the best offer anyone in the world could have dreamed of, and Arafat rejected it out of hand. Why? Because they don't want peace. They want Israel gone and they want the Jews dead. Peace means a two-state solution, but the Palestinian leaders want a one-state solution. There can never be peace between two warring sides if one of them doesn't want peace.

It isn't strictly a Muslim thing. But it is a "Palestinian" thing. And it is a death cult, pure and simple.

[–] desimonici-520-200435 10 years ago

I don't believe that evil is born or made it is chosen. There is a peaceful solution to all situations but people choose to reach their goals through violent means and then violence begets violence. No extenuating circumstances for anyone who chooses the path of violence in order to reach their goal. A solution to the problem in this region could be met peacefully if people chose to pursue it through political campaigning and other means.

[–] triph7 10 years ago

I'm Greek and not practicing any religion. There's no doubt that there has been aggravations and violence from both sides that date back a long way. There is no doubt that trying to find who's to blame is an impossible task and not a relevant one (any more). There is no doubt that both nations have been misguided by religion and politics.

But at this moment in time, the state of Israel, using its superior military strength, has imprisoned and literally put behind walls a whole nation. They force Palestinians to live in hideous conditions and terrorize them a hundredfold more than the Palestinians do.

I have no expectation that this will be understand by the people of Israel who live constantly under the threat of suicide attacks, but the rest of the world needs to put an end to this madness. And all the atrocities the Jews have suffered from Hitler and the Germans makes absolutely no excuse for this.

[–] OtisLovesUs 10 years ago

triph7,

"Palestine" is not a nation. This is because their leaders have chosen on numerous occasions not to be a nation. They cannot and will not accept a two-state solution, ever.

Like others in this thread, you seem to be under the impression that Israel "occupies" Gaza. It does not. They gave it all up years ago. Jews who didn't want to leave were evicted, by the Israeli government. It is 100% owned and operated by Palestinians. They have chosen Hamas to lead them in open elections. By doing this, they have explicitly voted to never have a two-state solution.

Israel has not put the Palestinians inside a prison. It has put itself inside a prison to protect its people from the Palestinians. You have it precisely backwards.

So while I agree that they should both let the past be the past and move forward, one side absolutely will not allow a two-state solution, while the other would like nothing more. And yet, you seem to favor the side who chooses perpetual war over peace.

[–] triph7 10 years ago

The problem with the two-state solution is that Israel does not recognise the pre-1967 borders, that the rest of the world does. You probably live under Israeli propaganda and you wouldn't know that, but the latest UN resolution (November 2013) for a two-state solution was passed 165 for to 6 against. The countries voting against were Canada, Israel, Federated States of Micronesia, Marshall Islands, Palau and the United States....

It's only Israel and their pals the North Americans that don't want a fair solution.

But since you cannot even understand the difference between state and nation (Palestinians ARE a nation, they are not state), I'm not going to bother any further.

[–] aimee-amira-chatila 10 years ago

Now... let's put it this way then.
The "Israelis" don't want peace. They want Palestine destroyed and the Palestinians dead.

[–] henhute6 9 years ago

We all want Israel liberated from zionist regime and palestinians return home.

[–] daniel4242 10 years ago

It's nice that you don't have anything against Jews and Gays. It show your moral high-ground. Do you also not have anything against blacks, Irish, and Mexicans? Or atheists, women who dress as they please, and other suspicious individuals? Do you have anymore "truth" to offer the world?

[–] robertpee 10 years ago

Right. I’m probably going to be talking to a wall here, so I won’t spend long on this.
1. Not sure what you mean by “defend what you want.” There’s no defence of anything contained in my post.
2. “It’s nice that you don’t have anything against Jews and Gays.” Not sure if this is directed at me or not. If it is, I’m not sure why, because it doesn’t seem to relate to anything I’ve posted.
Okay
The point:
Viewing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict through the prism of the War on Terror obscures more than it clarifies. Seeking to understand it by linking the Palestinians to the instances of Islamist terrorism you cited is a red herring; Palestinians have not been at the forefront of modern Islamist terror attacks directed at the West.
The Israeli-Palestinian is not fuelled primarily by the religious ideologies of the War on Terror, and pre-dates it by 50 years.
The key factor driving the Palestinians is a sense of outraged nationalism, not religion.
Fatah was set up originally as a left-wing nationalist group, not a religious group, and it rules the majority of Palestinians today.
Hamas is an Islamist group, but it’s younger than Fatah, and I think it’s pretty clear that its religious extremism is specifically linked to the I/P conflict, not some maximal goal of setting up some kind of World caliphate.
The keys issues in this conflict are who gets to control which/how much territory.
So claiming that the conflict exists because Palestinians hate Israel because they are Muslims simplifies a reality that is more complex.

[–] OtisLovesUs 10 years ago

robertpee,

While I agree with your general point that the Palestinians aren't really a part of the international Islamist terror campaign, as their primary objective is to wipe Israel off the map--a couple points of fact:

First, I think it's hilarious that Fatah is thought of as "nationalist," as they clearly don't want to be an actual state. That is, unless it means that Israel can't be a state.

Second, Hamas is without any question the Palestinian franchise operation of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is definitely a major player in the international Jihad, with serious ambitions about a new caliphate. Hamas is a Palestinian branch office of the Brotherhood. This is explicitly stated in Hamas' 1988 charter.

For added flavor, the slogans of Hamas and the Brotherhood are indistinguishable:

“Allah is our objective, the Prophet is our leader, the Koran is our law, Jihad is our way, and dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope. Allahu-akbar!”

[–] systamatics 9 years ago

Palestinian here,
I don't want israelis killed or abolished etc..

but i want israel as a state demolished, and a unified state should be established, but that can't be done before palestenians and israelis embrace Atheism and leave their rotten religions behind,as long as there are jews and Muslims there will never be peace, each side is on the totally opposite view on that land and both sides believe that a higher force, the creator of the universe gave them that land, who can argue with that?
Also, Israel has a huge advantage over the Palestinians, embraced by the west and given everything to be a country, me as a palestenian refugee i'm deprived of the most basic needs, as was my father as all palestenian refugees.

before the 1930s, there were only few native Jews in Palestine living in peace with the muslims and christians, the immigration under British control started in the late 1920s, then the immigrants started the haganah gangs raiding villages and wiping their population.

However this is history and we're willing to leave this behind, as the Arabs have done similiar things just some centuries ago.

I believe in violence to achieve peace, persecuting Muslims and Jews and forcing them into Atheism in a unified state, this is the only way or else war will continue forever.