This is a cult


It's not even an ideology, much less a philosophy. These movies are terrible and few people that sat down and read the book from cover to cover have actually enjoyed it as a literary work. The book is a religious text, and these movies are this cult's equivalent of the creepy catechism training videos they used to make me watch in sunday school. Quite frankly, I find the idea that alleged rational people sit down to "enjoy" these movies to the point of 3 parts is disturbing.

Why can't you be a non-conformist like everyone else?

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Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities.
Uncle Albert

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ah aphorisms the go to of the sheep.

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Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to that arrogant oligarchy who merely happen to be walking around.

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I'll be the first to admit her writing style is cumbersome, lacking fluidity and certainly could have been said in half as many words. But the thinking is sound for the most part (although ideology and real-world applications seldom jibe).

The important thing one should get from Rand's writings is that it applies to the reader. Unfortunately, so many who don't really understand her writing see it as a license to "spot the looters".

Those who DO understand her writing come away with identifying their OWN shortcomings within her philosophy. In that respect, it IS kind of like a religion. Some read the Bible and will point their fingers at all the sinners. Others read the Bible and identify their OWN sins.

I may not agree with her philosophy, but i have found many valuable excerpts within it.
Just as I have with the bible.




"De gustibus non disputandum est"
#3

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Agreed here. I find agitation in her writing in that there are parts here and there that display traits to be admirable but it's mixed in with so much nonsense, ridiculous personality extremes and absurdly bad writing that the novels do become in a lot of ways, comical and worthy of not much more than mockery.

My gripes with almost all of her books start with the overly wordy nature. When I read the book and saw the speech was 68 pages long, I sorta sighed and after about 10 pages in I realized I could skip a few pages at a time, read a couple paragraphs, repeat and lose nothing. I mean seriously:

Looters, each man according to his own works....Skip 10 pages.....The mediocre robbing the capable and calling it progress.....Skip 10 pages..... removal from society until those among us who are capable are allowed to work unfettered to fix the problems of looting......skip 10 pages..... on and on. Piss poor writing on her part.

Her entire literary career is like that so no shock.

It is then closely followed up by the fact that she and those who "follow" her books are nothing more than zealots. There's a word for someone who believes in an idea, whatever it may be and pushes it to the very end of the spectrum well past the point of being rational or actually implementable in the real world. Those people are called fanatics or fundamentalists or what have you. And this is the really damnable part of her books.

All of this comes together to create boring books with unlikable, robotic, zealot, unrelatable protagonists who supposedly function to carry society but refuse to in any way be a part of it and it serves to alienate any readers except those of the same exact mind from the good ideas she can present here and there.

Those good ideas are simple in this day and age and something we could all, myself included, aspire to more often.

-Love what you do and work hard to master it.
-Look to thrive based on the opportunities you can create and the achievements you can accomplish.
-Don't try to take what others have because you can. Consider the accomplishments of others as inspiring.
-Be willing to ask for help if you need it but use it to become the better version of yourself you aspire to instead of floating into complacency.

That last one is certainly not implied by her ever but a tenet I try to live up to.

Instead of these semi admirable ideas, we just get a bunch of fools who warp this into:

-Blindly hate those who are poor or less capable.
-Be actively scornful toward and feel no obligation to help those who are in a lesser position than yourself via opportunity.
-Become an extreme stereotype of greed and money above all like a turbocharged version of Gordon Gekko.

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-Blindly hate those who are poor or less capable.
-Be actively scornful toward and feel no obligation to help those who are in a lesser position than yourself via opportunity.
-Become an extreme stereotype of greed and money above all like a turbocharged version of Gordon Gekko.


LOL! Beautifully written. I think I saw some of these slogans on the placards of the Westboro Baptist Church



"De gustibus non disputandum est"
#3

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My favorite quote about Rand's literary skills:

"In the first half of Atlas Shrugged, you're asked the question 'Who is John Galt?' For the second half, you ask 'when will John Galt shut the hell up?'"

Whatever merits are in her ponderous prose are not worth the costs. I skimmed through Anthem, Giggled through The Fountainhead and it's cardboard characters, campy situations and ludicrous sexual content, but had to slog uphill through Atlas Shrugged. I can't remember if I finished it or not. I think I incurred permanent brain damage. I almost wish there was someone I could sue.

"Nope, Hipster nonsense. I'm out."

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-Blindly hate those who are poor or less capable.
-Be actively scornful toward and feel no obligation to help those who are in a lesser position than yourself via opportunity.
-Become an extreme stereotype of greed and money above all like a turbocharged version of Gordon Gekko.


Ever notice how the rabid, anti-Randroids always give themselves away if you let them ramble on long enough?

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I can always tell the people who don't understand Ayn Rand. I love it when a person fully understands her writings and then offers criticism and arguments against what she says. Those people are few and far between. Most tend to feel icky about her and then spew the anti-Rand rhetoric in order to try and sound knowledgeable.



**WARNING: MY POSTS MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS**
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i thought j-burton's description of the current republican party was spot on. what did you disagree with?

did i ramble on long enough?

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Gee, no. I never noticed that. But Rand was objectively deranged and sociopathic. If that's what you're driving at.

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"spot the looters" oh I always love that one. Sociopaths can be so funny.

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You say "sociopath" like it's a bad thing.



**WARNING: MY POSTS MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS**
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I think it's neither good nor bad. How it manifests itself is a different story. Ted Bundy raped and murdered people. Ayn Rand wrote books.

I'll leave it up to the individual to decide which one was more dangerous.



**WARNING: MY POSTS MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS**
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when the choice is between someone who negatively affects a small number of people over a very short time period very severely, and someone who negatively affects a great number of people over a much longer time period with varying severity, it's a tough choice.

but i'd go with the latter.

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Fortunately, those who enjoy the film are in the minority.

Albert Ruddy tried for 20 years to get the film produced, but AR, limited as she was in her understanding of business, wanted her film to be, "philsophical," and they don't sell.

Her followers are not only not rational, they are absent any concept and use of critical thinking skills.

Excellent read ...

The Ayn Rand Cult ... Jeff Walker

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I liked the movies personally. The book not so much, but mostly because it was long-winded. I don't find this to be a cult at all. I'm a Christian myself, no, not Westboro Baptist Creeps (they give Christianity a BAD name).

This story shows the government creating a massive economic contradiction: they claim that capitalism doesn't work, but their version of capitalism involved thousands upon thousands of harsh rules and regulations, so in essence, they weren't practicing capitalism at all, but still using that term to describe the economic system. Capitalism by definition involves very little government intervention in the economy (the intervention being the necessary anti-monopoly and anti-trust laws along with the banning of insider trading plus some smaller regulations, such as health codes and safety codes, etc.). It's interesting that our government and the government in the movie choose to restrain capitalism further and further and can't realize that the restrictions are causing the problems, instead putting all the blame back on businesses who are struggling to keep afloat in all the regulations (not talking about massive corporations but mainly franchises and small businesses). The more you regulate business, the less it can function. The Russians learned this decades ago during the years of the USSR. Government-run industry can not function properly due to the lack of funds and the lack of incentive to work. People quit industries run by the government over time because the revenue the "businesses" generate is distributed equally amongst them anyway, so they have no reason to contribute to the work force. That's why socialism and Communism don't work. That's why the Soviet Union collapsed.

Franklin Roosevelt put us in this mess with his New Deal.
Did he create some agencies that do good things and were necessary? Definitely. From him we got the Food and Drug Administration, the Tennessee Valley Authority, etc.
But did he also create many more agencies that gave the government far too much power over the economy? Most definitely yes. FDR set the standard for socialism in the United States, sending taxes through the roof starting in 1937 in a feeble attempt to balance the budget. But balancing the budget of creating hundreds of agencies is completely impossible, a fact which he was very well aware of. He continued to spread control over the US economy for years, freezing wages and prices through agencies such as the Office of Price Administration, putting America on a rationing system. All of this is disturbingly similar to the actions of the Head of State in Atlas Shrugged, trying to freeze an already-failing economy in place, but resulting in even more catastrophic failure. The United States' economy recovered when business, yes business, created thousands upon thousands of jobs in factories to help the war effort among other jobs. FDR's tax hikes and agency creations did nothing to help the US economy, as the data will show. His policies actually led to even greater depression. It was only when business was finally turned loose that the economy recovered.
Restricting capitalism only hurts the economy. It does not and will not help it. Capitalism has its natural ups and downs just like any other economic system. The government should never have bailed out big business, EVER. That does include the bailouts by President Bush and of course those by President Obama. The law of free enterprise states that businesses will rise and eventually fail, only to be replaced by new businesses that will catch the economy and turn it around.

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why don't you flesh this bizarre fantasy of yours out with another thousand pages or so of turgid imagery and rough sex - you could be the next ayn rand!

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Oh God do you ever go away? You don't even like these movies so what the hell is your morbid fascination with these boards?

"Can't deal with my tank donuts!" - VanossGaming

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go away? and miss all the laughs? no way!

i will admit to a morbid fascination for reading what the reality-challenged rand fanboys will come up with next. my imagination isn't good enough to make this sort of stuff up on my own.

as for the movies...they're definitely keepers in the "so bad they're awesome" category. seriously now, the trashbag tumbleweeds in "abandoned" utah from atlas shrugged part 2 are almost as genius a "special effect" as the pie plate flying saucer from liquid sky. movie magic at its best! ed wood would be proud!

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Arrogant trash. That's all I can say about this guy. 'I can't possibly be wrong because I'm the best thing God ever dropped on this Earth and I'm gonna go on conservative movie boards and act like a stuck-up know-it-all to everybody who dare oppose me, even though my party says they're soooooo tolerant.' Get over yourself, pal. You don't ever see me on either of my usernames go and act like I know everything there is to know about every single thing in the world. I present what I know and what I have seen, and we may attack each other's facts and opinions just like in any debate, but at least I don't act like I'm teaching a first-grader how to read.

Can't deal with my tank donuts!" - VanossGaming

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evidently you prefer to use your multiple accounts to act like you don't know anything about anything. and that's better because...why? i'm sorry if making fun of your fantastic ravings for what they are makes me seem like a know it all (at least to you, who knows nothing), but i call em like i see em. if you can oppose me with facts, do so. if you can't...i reckon whining about how mean i am is the next best option.

"my party"? that's a riot! you have no clue what my party is. not that party should matter, because surely all parties would rather operate in the real world instead of a fantasy dreamland, wouldn't they?

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You've debated me on my other account before too. Remember rball4042? Yeah that's me. I am.just as political on both accounts. You make it pretty obvious that you're on the left somewhere, and the more I talk to you, the more I become convinced that you're farther left than a Progressive. But specific terms are not important. What is important is that somehow you have been indoctrinated to the point where you believe that massive government and socialism work better than democracy, an ideology which has been refuted time and time again throughout history. Can you give me one good example of an everlasting communist empire? Didn't think so. Even if you could, name one where the people are actually happy and not forced into submission. Bet you can't find one like that either. Now how about long-lasting democratic or democratic-republic empires in the world? United States (for now), Switzerland, the list goes on. Even more numerous are the countries whose economies have exploded since adopting democracy: Singapore, Hong Kong, the list goes on again. Point proven.

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no, sadly i don't remember rball4042 - that's just a string of letters and numbers to me.

hmmm...favorite president of my lifetime: gerald ford. the left-of-progressives' #1 choice!

sadly, you're the one who's sounding indoctrinated here since you don't even bother to make a coherent argument, just rah-rah talk. and not even sensible cheerleading, either.

evidently i believe that "massive government and socialism work better than democracy"? ummm...no. i believe that a massive government is appropriate for a massive, complex country to function. i believe that the current kleptocracy in the usa is abominable, so i guess that means "socialist" in your narrow view of the world. i believe that democracy would be nice, if we actually had one.

what do you mean by "everlasting communist empire"? people's republic of china seems to be doing pretty well these days. vietnam is still around. cuba is still kicking despite 50+ years of irrational american embargo. are they everlasting? surveys seem to show those dirty commies are pretty content too (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Planet_Index) - vietnam, china & cuba all score much higher than that bastion of democratic glee the us of a.

as for the great democracies you list.... the same party has won every election in singapore since 1959, and hong kong is a part of communist china. adopting democracy has nothing to do with economic success.

as for switzerland, well... "in switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? the cuckoo clock."

time for you to turn off fox news and discover what the real world is like.

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China: an economy that would surely die without all our outsourced jobs and a country that has been coming out of Communism slowly
Vietnam: an economy that sucks, people trained in that classic 1984 doublethink and don't know which way is up without asking the government
Cuba: has been falling for years now, has no voice in the world

Surveys of all those countries are not reliable at all. Poll North Korea and I bet you would get the same results. Why? Because they know they'll get shot in the head if they openly disagree with the government. At least here we can actually have a say.

Hong Kong seceded from China a while back and became its own capitalist entity and has been experiencing economic success for years. Singapore adopted capitalism recently and is experiencing tremendous economic growth.

Switzerland is insignificant? Really? Are you sure? A model nation for direct democracy that rivals our current system, an economy that almost never falters and grows exponentially, a nation with a strict policy of neutrality, and a business capital of the world. Ever heard of the multibillion dollar company Nestle? Swiss company. You may have never heard of Novartis, but they are one of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world, and you can thank them for many a medication: Excedrin, Theraflu, and Maalox to name a few. Swiss company. Top commodities trader Glencore International? Swiss. Roche Group, responsible for prescription drugs like Tamiflu and diabetes monitoring equipment? Swiss. Pharmaceutical and retail company Alliance Boots, which is on the verge of merging with Walgreens? Swiss.

And that's just business. They're responsible for the CERN Supercollider in Geneva, the world's largest particle accelerator, designed to recreate the beginnings of the universe. Geneva also serves as a meeting ground for diplomats from the United Nations. They also have a large military ready to go at a moment's notice, but strictly for self-defense. Even Hitler and Mussolini were scared of them. The country is sandwiched between Germany and Italy and they didn't even try to take it over. Almost nonexistent crime thanks to weapons distributions, clean air without a trillion environmental restrictions, high paying jobs, and an incredibly happy populace. But Switzerland is insignificant in your eyes.

I think Switzerland, more than any other country in the world, shows how a small government improves life quality and allows for a prosperous economy, even in an incredibly complex country.

"Can't deal with my tank donuts!" - VanossGaming

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china: "As of 2013, it is the world's second-largest economy by both nominal total GDP and purchasing power parity (PPP), and is also the world's largest exporter and importer of goods." (from wikipedia) if you've been paying attention at all, you'll know that the usa needs china at least as much as china needs the usa economically. who do you think owns the most of the usa's massive foreign debt?

vietnam: "Since 2000, Vietnam's economic growth rate has been among the highest in the world, and, in 2011, it had the highest Global Growth Generators Index among 11 major economies." (from wikipedia) not too bad for a country that was destroyed by war followed by an economic embargo that didn't end til the mid-80s.

cuba: "Cuba ranks high in metrics of health and education, with a high Human Development Index of 0.780 as of 2013. According to data it presents to the United Nations, Cuba was the only nation in the world in 2006 that met the World Wide Fund for Nature's definition of sustainable development" (from wikipedia) nothing earthshaking, but what do you expect from a country with limited natural resources and a population a little more than half that of the new york city metro area?

meanwhile, that bastion of freedom the usa leads the world in incarceration rate. probably because we don't have enough guns!

sorry, but your blanket declaration that surveys regarding those countries are automatically invalid is ridiculously ignorant. do you ever get access to information that's not pure propaganda?

evidently not, since you're so glaringly ignorant about hong kong and singapore. wow, update your knowledge from the 1950s, please!

you can start by watching "the third man", wherefrom i pulled the switzerland quote. it's a far better movie than these atlas shrugged travesties, and more enlighteningly capitalistic as well. the quote's by harry lime, an enterprising capitalist, i suspect you'll idolize him.

btw, you think germany didn't invade because hitler was terrified of switzerland? wow. you know nothing, jamest2014.

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Rockefeller, Frick, Morgan and Carnegie ruined capitalism.

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Very few people actually sit down to "enjoy" these movies so you've got that absolutely right. What I don't understand is why there is a Part III to a movie where Parts I and II bombed financially and have become a laughingstock to many on the Left.

Just goes to show that Rightwingers should stay out of the entertainment business. They're just not good at it.

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Just goes to show that Rightwingers should stay out of the entertainment business. They're just not good at it.



Rand cultists are not "Rightwingers". Most of them are insane Libertarians. I'm a right-winger and I despise Rand's "objectivism"

And for the record, films actually made for right-wingers, like "2016: Obama's America", have been smashing successes.

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I couldn't agree more.

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