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What I think is the main problem some people have with Objectivism


Its followers preach a lot about "freedom" and "individualism", but they don't really seem to have much sympathy for people who have little and must enter into unpleasant deals out of necessity. Capitalism isn't really a system of self-reliance and independence. Under that system, most people have to buy stuff from other people and work for other people out of necessity. Objectivists often oversimplify the situation by implying either these transactions are almost recreational in nature or that if those people tried harder or were more talented they somehow would have never needed other people at all.

I think Objectivists tend to be obsessed with precise, pinpoint logic. Many Objectivist articles read like mathematical proofs where some of their philosophic beliefs and axioms are stated with some facts about the situation and then the supposedly perfect solution is derived. The problem is that the real world is more complex than that and it seems to me that they simply disregard more complex problems so they can be logically consistent and believe they have got everything figured out.

I definitely believe that government intervention has screwed things up, but I think empowering private property owners too much would really result in the same thing as government controlling everything, just with different terminology. I think there has to be a balance between public and private power to maintain the most freedom. I think hardcore capitalists and socialists are people who just pick an extreme for the sake of simplicity.

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Those who enter into unpleasant deals to attain "freedom" and "individualism" will gain neither.

Objectivism, if you ever cared to read about it, is not about what others have led you to believe. It is simply about "A is A" and there is no "in between" or "shade of grey" or "depends on viewpoint".

Objectivist Epistemology (as well as being one of her better books) gives us an excellent grounding in LOGIC and PERCEPTION. One of the fundamental concepts is IDENTITY. A thing is what it is.

Stop being a governmental apologist and get out of everyone's way. We'll enjoy the movie without your whining about things aren't the way you wish they were.

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"a is a" - now there's some intellectual heavy lifting at work.

you think rand is a genius. i think she's a vapid blowhard. but there's no "depends on viewpoint" and she is what she is, so which is she?

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Troll. Of course "A is A" and it's a hard concept in these days of Common Core.

Go read her books.

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i've suffered through enough of her blather already, thanks. there are too many books written by truly intelligent writers that i haven't gotten around to yet - maybe i'll get back to her when i've read them all. but probably not, i think i've wrung all the laughs out of them that i can.

since you apparently haven't grasped the illogic of rand's "logic" yet, here's more for you:

bill gates likes common core. bill gates is ridiculously rich. to be ridiculously rich is to be smart. therefore it is smart to like common core.

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So you think you know Rand. You don't know a thing. Go troll somewhere else.

You think it's kewl to support Common Core? You are delusional. Go watch your mother's videos on the Playboy channel.

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ah, a truly impressive display of how pristine you're keeping your mental cupboard. ayn would be so proud of you!

your tinfoil hat might be just a bit too tight though.

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Kim Kardashian likes common core. Kim Kardashian is ridiculously rich. To be ridiculously rich is to be smart. therefore it is smart to like common core.

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another fine example of randian "logic". keep up the great work!

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Your words, all I did was substitute another rich person, who is, according to you, smart.

Rich and smart do not always walk hand in hand.

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sadly, i guess you didn't grasp the randian logic of my statement after all.

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oh, sorry - i didn't realize you were saying that rand was a troll. my bad!

but seriously, looks aren't everything, you know.

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Randians like to rattle on about their love of logic, but even before Rand's era logicians such as Bertrand Russell and Gödel had proved the limitations of Aristotle's 'A is A'.

In reality, grey areas can and do exist. The fact that Rand didn't know that Aristotle's 2000 year old logic had been superseded doesn't bode well for her supposed status as a great intellectual.

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I think the main problem some people have with Objectivism is that it is loaded with absolutes and that it doesn't feel good. It's a lonely existence that places one in a constant state of judgmentalism (either giving or receiving). Joy is rare. Ire and depression are nearly a constant and it rarely affords a person the opportunity to coexist with others in any pleasurable manner.

That being said, I have found a lot of value in reading Rand's material and have applied many of her ideas to my own life as I live it. But it is simply not the apex of human thought. It is a great cornerstone of reason. But man cannot live on reason alone. We are emotional beings. We are spiritual beings. We are social beings and ultimately we not only like the company of others, we are reliant upon others for our physical, psychological and emotional well-being. This includes surrounding ourselves with people of different opinions and perspectives. We need the challenges of differing values and lifestyles. To deny ourselves of these spiritual commodities is to deny our own value as human beings.

It is the diversity that gives us the colors we need to paint our lives' landscape. Rand has value and I encourage others to read her literature. But it's simply not enough to complete the picture.



**WARNING: MY POSTS MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS**
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Hey, Gabz! Good to know you're still up in here.

Communist Core can slurp my salty [redacted]. Only people who hate America and want to see it sink even further into collectivist tyranny support that quivering load of genetic material!

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i didn't realize that bill gates was one of them america hatin' commie tyrannical types. thanks for the scoop!

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I think Objectivists tend to be obsessed with precise, pinpoint logic.

...Except that Objectivism is NOT LOGICAL in a modern, industrial/post-industrial civilization.

Even right wing arch-conservatives like Otto von Bismarck understood that a modern, civilized society must maintain an adequate social "safety net"... Such a safety net (i.e., welfare -- the "dole") is one of the key foundations to stability.

Instability is TERRIBLE for capitalism.



"Send her to the snakes!"

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Thank you. It saves me from having to point this out. If people really want to live in a Randian utopia all they have to do is make it to Somalia.

Touch darkness and darkness touches you back.

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Ayn Rand's novels were hugely helpful to me in getting my thoughts together when I read them in college. Rand was a powerful voice saying things that made perfect sense, things that are not supposed to be said. She illuminated the manner in which we become controlled and dehumanized; she helped me achieve resolve to think and reason for myself.

That being said, I wouldn't call myself an objectivist, and the flaws in Rand's undiluted ideology become obvious when you examine the details of her personal life. To understand the genius that is Rand, and to also understand her shortcomings, I recommend Barbara Branden's "The Passion of Ayn Rand".

In her novels, I could believe in the reality of Rand's villains much more than I could believe in the reality of her heroes. I'm fumbling to say this clearly, but I think Rand regarded every life decision as a thing to be objectively contemplated. And that's the wrong way to look at it; a vital aspect of humanity is our inherent subjectivity. We aspire to objective judgment for the sake of dealing with each other, but in the privacy of our souls, we are irrational beings. Rand used her genius, in part, to rationalize and deny her own irrational emotions and yearnings. In a word, she lacked introspection.

It's consistent that Rand was an atheist. She was not one to acknowledge a higher authority than herself. I can't go there because I see human shortcomings, including my own, more clearly. We need the ideal of God because we are inadequate. Concepts of good and evil come out of God, not from logic.

I support Rand because her framework allows me the leeway that the collectivists will deny me. I do believe in charity and the social safety net, but governments lack the moral or legal authority, or the practical skills, to administer these good works. Our humanity and productivity is degraded and debased by government, whether we're on the giving or receiving ends of this coerced "charity".

Rand, for all her flaws, lets me think for myself, decide for myself. This is why many people regard her as dangerous.

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I agree with you. I like Rand's work, but I don't see myself as an objectivist. Her works do illustrate how far afield American thinking has drifted from our founding. There is such a disregard for the individual and for private property rights.

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