Sincere question: did it work?


It's clear from some of the comments that all three of these movies were a big hit with some fraction of people who had already read the book and were fans Rand's views, but the makers were hoping to "enlighten" a whole new audience, influence elections, etc. So...

Is there *anyone* out there who saw all three movies without reading the book?

Is there anyone who read the book because the movies were coming out, either just before the first one, or between movies?

In either of these cases, would you say your views or your future votes were significantly affected?

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This question doesn't pertain to me as I am already familiar with the book.

I think if their goal WAS to enlighten, influence and "recruit", then the films did a poor job of putting out the "propaganda". But for those already familiar with the doctrine, it did a passable job of telling the story.

I think a Michael Moore style documentary would have been more constructive - especially if it gave equal criticism to the Republican and Democrat factions. So many people see Atlas Shrugged as Conservative propaganda when it is actually very critical of both sides. Neither Republicans nor Democrats are conducive toward the Individualist philosophy of Atlas Shrugged.






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The irony is that Michael Moore is one of the most successful, independent capitalists around - all the while telling people what a horrible thing capitalism is. He would be a hero to the guys, except, you know...

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No doubt Moore found a marketable commodity and has a good solid customer base to which he can sell his product. And that goes for most propaganda, be it political, social, religious, environmental.... No one says you have to sell the truth- especially when a lie will sell so much better.

Wanna buy some Indulgences? Real cheap....




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What's even more ironic is that so many people worship Atlas Shrugged, written by a Russian immigrant who lived on social security, which she railed against.

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She did rally against the premise of social security. But she did not rally against getting her money back from the flawed and immoral system of Social Security.

I see it as no different than getting a tax refund.



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No. It did not!!

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i read the book due to the movies coming out (in addition to the usual drumbeat of politicians who supposedly worship it).

and yes, it did change my views. originally i was indifferent or mildly curious about objectivism, now i think it's totally loony and politicians that claim to think her ideas are worth following are similarly deranged.

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and yes, it did change my views. originally i was indifferent or mildly curious about objectivism, now i think it's totally loony and politicians that claim to think her ideas are worth following are similarly deranged.

That's exactly how I feel about it as well.

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That was my view - I watched the films and thought "no one can be this idiotic?" I decided that the movie makers might have missed the point, so I read the book. I was horrified that objectivism is really, to me at least, little more than eugenics with money worship thrown in - basically survival of the fittest and, in this case, the richest. Anyone who isn't cold-hearted, cold-blooded and ambitious enough to seize what they want, when they want it, will be shot in cold blood by some deranged woman on a power trip.

In a supposedly enlightened society, that kind of animalistic pack mentality doesn't really work - in an enlightened society, where we see the damage that worshiping at the altar of cold hard cash actually does and not just to us but to the entire world around us, then that kind of blinkered attitude is idiotic.

Sure I can see that giving people everything can lead to a loss of ambition - you only have to look at my own country, the UK, to see where having a nanny state gets us (and those attempting to settle here because they think the streets are lined with free money). But there is a mid-ground; a way that the truly desperate can be helped and encouraged without handing them the world on a plate.

This can be achieved; only recently there have been people thanking a charity for getting them off the streets and into a hostel - by doing so they have an address, which means they can get jobs; which they have. Now they're renting their own flats, making their own way in the world. Once they were homeless and hopeless, now they have futures because someone helped them.

Ayn Rand never saw that; she herself seemed too blinkered and, dare I say, cold-heartedly unemotional to do so. If Atlas Shrugged (1,2 or 3) is what the future holds for us as a species then I really hope we blow ourselves up before that distopian society can take control.

Death, as they say, before dishonour; or at least aniahilating those less lucky than us. Because Rand conveniently ignores those who end up destitute through no fault of their own. We have many ex-servicemen in this country (the UK) as I am sure the US does, who ended up on the wrong the side of an IED and/or an insurgent attack.

Many have lost limbs - what happens to them? Can someone dumped from the armed forces by our governments, left to beg on the streets (as happens here), suddenly become a super-rich captain of industry? Especially when my government at least, makes it so difficult for the poor to climb up that slippery pole of success? So what of these men and women? Should we kill them? Because they're not able to be 'productive' by Rand's definition of the word without help? No, Rand's world is definitely not one I, or my family, would want to live in.

As for the movie itself; dear Lord, I thought the first two were bad - but this was truly awful. The ending, lingering on the Statue of Liberty (the only thing still lit up in a city gone dark), the 'you're my tomorrows', the kiss 'resurrecting' the supposedly dead John Gault and then, the irritatingly Mills & Boon/Hallmark channels style sweeping romantic scores just made me want to vomit. Also WHY keep recasting? Was it because the original actors of each of the first two parts legged it when they saw what a nightmare the finished movies were? Was it because, ironically, the makers couldn't afford the actors from the first film for the other two? Whatever it was, constantly recasting the main characters drove me nuts and made the later two films even more unwatchable.

No, these films are up there with the worst of the worst - would Ayn Rand be happy? I don't know; frankly, I don't care. Anyone who worships money as a God is off my radar. I'd rather be kind and thought weak; than evil and thought strong. Let's face it, if aliens watched this, they'd just blow us and be done with it. We'd be considered too threatening to allow to exist. However, I bet the Tea Party people and most of the Republicans absolutely ADORED these three films. 

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you are sooo clueless. the tea party hates this book and these movies, because if the american citizens learn from and accept these books, those fuzzy tea party *beep* are going to be out on their cans, and they know it.

you repeat that stupidity that ayn rand advocates the worship of money. let me try to advance the people of the USA, and if it doesn't work, oh well.

an offensive lineman does not think about the score, he thinks about dominating his opponent, on every play. if he does his job, the team gets 'the pizza'. this type of teamwork, a sense of teamwork with humanity, is a central theme in her works.

ms rand always talks about 'doing the job', and then you get 'the pizza'. it is the losers, the politicians, who worship the money and the power, and want to get it by any means.

in ayn rands books, the robbers-the politicains, worship the money=power.

in ayn rand books, the winners are those who respect themselves and their own works. respecting themselves and their works, they advance civilization. they worship effective thought, and use money as a scorecard. the politicians and the powermongers use money and power as their goal.

please re-read the books again. just see the power mongers and politicians as the tea party people, and see the effective people as intelligent people who can do things that the bloodsucking politicians are incapable of.

thank you for reading.

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I think in today's economic world, it's easy to get confused as to what defines the "Randian Hero". It's not the politicians, the Wall-Street gamblers or the Corporatists. It's the people who create, innovate, risk, grow and place value on the people and things of value, establishing a mutually-beneficial relationship that creates a thriving economy and society.



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These discussions always remind me of Winston Churchill's insightful quote "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery." Take your pick.

Absolute truth is an objective reality that exists independent of what anyone thinks

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[deleted]

Thanks for your insightful comment.

It appears you validated Churchill's thinking on this.

If you look at the definitions of Inherent = "existing in something as a permanent, essential, or characteristic attribute" AND Vice = "a moral fault or failing", his statement did not suggest that "unequal sharing of blessings" was the FAULT of capitalism, simply that it is inherent because of man's fallen nature (which you implied in your comment i.e. cronyism).

Likewise, "equal sharing of misery", which wasn't part of your comment, Churchill suggests that the inherent virtue of socialism is simply that "inherent".

Again thanks for the discussion!

Absolute truth is an objective reality that exists independent of what anyone thinks

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anyone can become a wealthy man if they achieve it

ah, the ayn rand "a is a" school of logic strikes again....

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If this movie had one redeeming feature, it's that they left out the "a is a" meme.

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My husband had talked about this book for years, but I found out that he had never actually read it. When the first movie came out, we went to see it. I was stunned. I GOT IT!! I really understood what she was trying to say! I was so excited that "Atlas Shrugged" was the first book I put on my new Kindle and I read it all the way through. In spite of being rather wordy, they were saying so many exciting truths in the book and I had a hard time putting it down. Businesses provide jobs and jobs provide prosperity for everyone....unless the government gets their bloody hands on it. Government back off and let the free market do its job! I just found out the third movie came out two months ago and I never knew it! Now I have to wait until it comes out on DVD to see it. :(

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oh cool...so you understood that the big business guys controlled the government to do damage to their competitors, and that "the free market" is easily manipulated by big capital. rand was too subtle for most of her fans to pick this up.

and the part about where the company where galt invented his motor and subsequently quit was taken over by the government and forced to...oh wait...the government didn't have anything to do with that company blowing up.

then it must have been the government preventing dagny from using rearden metal for her tracks. hmmm...no...that was the unions trying to block that move at the behest of the other business guys.

well, i'm sure the impotent, incompetent (and unattractive!) guvvies were important to the story somehow.

hopefully netflix will have it soon - i can't wait to see it!

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oh cool...so you understood that the big business guys controlled the government to do damage to their competitors, and that "the free market" is easily manipulated by big capital. rand was too subtle for most of her fans to pick this up.


Rand was pretty clear about this. Sadly many in power who tout Rand have no problem with big business controlling/buying government operations and neglect the idea that big business will buy whatever government representative is willing to whore themselves out to them.

and the part about where the company where galt invented his motor and subsequently quit was taken over by the government and forced to...oh wait...the government didn't have anything to do with that company blowing up.


Agreed. it was an example of socialism where the company ran with a socialist ideal that collapsed the company. A warning against socialist government (theorizing that if a company can't function that way, neither can a nation) .

then it must have been the government preventing dagny from using rearden metal for her tracks. hmmm...no...that was the unions trying to block that move at the behest of the other business guys.

My memory may be fuzzy, but weren't they enlisting the Ministry of Science (or whatever the hell it was) to "study" the metal and to also block Rearden's monopoly on the new metal by "sharing" its secret under the guise of safety concerns?


Hey, i know Rand's writing is cumbersome and not all her ideas are gold, but there are some strong ideas with a solid foundation within and if people put forth the effort to consider what is valuable and what is not (like the Bible or Bernie Sanders memes) one can come away with a bit more enlightenment than they had before.





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It's not hard to invent a Utopia if everyone agrees to play by *your* rules - pretty much whatever they are.

Rand always believed that all "creators" relish the chance to compete on a level playing field, and in such a world laissez faire capitalism would indeed cause the best to rise to the top. In the end though, that's as unrealistic as the cheerful social collectivism of starry-eyed hippies.

Since the dawn of history, once one person or group establishes a market, they'll do anything in their power to eliminate the competition. Nineteenth Century America was very close to Rand's ideal, and what we saw was the rich getting extremely rich and shutting out competition at every level. They even had their own police force (The Pinkertons) which at its peak outnumbered the US Army.

What we call a "free market" today has a complex system of checks and balances to enable the kind of competition that Rand believed would come naturally (in spite of the fact that it never has in all of history).

It doesn't take much imagination to see how things would play out in Galt's Gulch. All the key businesses are locked up by the first wave of alpha dogs, and there's any number of things they can do to protect their monopolies. For example, Midas Mulligan owns the bank *and* all the land. That pretty much eliminates the possibility of establishing a rival bank to keep interest rates down, so Midas can charge whatever he wants. Once the next generation sees how limited their opportunities are, they'll start rethinking their opposition to government pretty quickly.

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It's not hard to invent a Utopia if everyone agrees to play by *your* rules - pretty much whatever they are.


Agreed.



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In some degree the productions of these movies did work on me. I had never read nor heard of the book and after I saw Part 1, I was left wanting more. I started searching online to see when/if the sequel would be made. It was only then that I realized that this was in fact based on a book and the philosophy. (While I don't subscribe to all of it I love the politics of it and wish this was the manner in which our country was run.)

I immediately went to a book store and purchased the book. Read it in about 2 weeks. So without the first movie being made i'd probably have never been introduced to Ayn Rand.

As far as whether or not my views or future votes have changed I can say that my conservative leanings have been pushed more to libertarian views.

That being said Mr. Aglialoro, Mr. Kaslow, Scott, Big Jim and the many others at Atlas Productions should should know they made a difference.

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In the simplest answer: No.
I remember reading the book back in high school and loving it. I was honestly hoping the writers of Part I would continue and write the next two parts because the first movie pretty much hit the nail on the head.
Instead, we were given too much melodrama in the second movie and way too much romance in the third movie. What happen to the friction between Dagney and Hank? It was nowhere to be found in the third movie.
All in all, I was extremely disappointed in Part II and nauseated with Part III.
Ms. Rand would not have liked what they did to her fantastic work.

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It's a great film series you're not a far left or liberal partisan hack who believes fully in the nanny state.

Non political or moderate democrats like myself who are classically liberal will also enjoy it as we have not been fooled by propaganda painting capitalism as an evil entity, but rather know it's the best system available. Essentially, those of us who want a lean, but efficient, non intrusive Govt that is non-Authoritarian will enjoy it.

Sadly, most of us real moderates or conservative Democrats have fled to the independent vote or the Republicans party because we no longer feel adequately represented by the crazy socialists who have hijacked the party and voted out all the sensible blue dogs.


And political leanings aside, if you read the book you can also skip it also as the book is much much better.

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It's a great film series you're not a far left or liberal partisan hack who believes fully in the nanny state.


Yeah, either that or you care about script, continuity, acting, sets, character development, or any of those other minor details that go into making a movie.

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