MovieChat Forums > Shogun (2024) Discussion > Am I the only one who had a fit of viole...

Am I the only one who had a fit of violent laughter because of 5?

posted 8 months ago by puremind (254)
7 replies | jump to latest

The humor for me escalated from the preposterous situation where Japanese rules lead to the gardener's death and the increasingly disturbing stank of the pheasant.

I found the Japanese deference and adherence to rules pushed to absurd levels extremely funny, and it cultimated with John gifting the swords of shame to Toranaga as an act of kindness with Toranaga laughing with a wry smile after he had been completely flummoxed about the pheasant story and cultural misunderstandings.

The way the pheasant was filmed with increasing stank and the disturbed reactions of the Japanese staff all trying to put up with it but not daring to say anything besides the reserved, polite Japanese way, was a masterful and hilarious situational comedy on cultural differences that culminated in sudden tragicomic incomprehension.

I found it extremely witty and couldn't help but belly laugh. Especially because it was so macabre that the brain has no other way of rationalizing it.

I absolutely loved that episode. I had not laughed so much in a long time! The fact that the comedic aspect was not overdone and remained very subtle was absolutely genius. The situation stringing did all the work, and I thoroughly enjoyed it!

[–] Valerian (-273) 8 months ago

The Japanese are also very eager to kill themselves when they fuck up and dishonor their lord. At least once per episode this happens 🙃

[–] puremind (254) 8 months ago

Yes, it is humor by accumulation and culmination! I loved it so much!

[–] Nanook (1937) 7 months ago

Damn, I love dark to pitch-black comedy, but since I also am fascinated by cultural differences, and knew his words would treated as a literal death sentence, I was touched by his realization that he was responsible for the gardener's death.

No judgement from me, as when watching, for a recent example, Poor Things (2023), there were many moments when myself and my like-minded friend were the only two people in the theater wheezing with laughter, while it seemed the rest of the audience was in various stages of disgust, horror or nausea. :D

[–] Kawada_Kira (7282) 6 months ago

I was just shaking my head in dismay. This 2024 adaptation mishandled the whole pheasant thing just like it mishandled everything else. This version actually has Blackthorne give the command "Sawattara, shinu". "If you touch it, you die". Then have him be all surprised and upset when the inevitable happens. It's so fucking stupid. In the novel and the 1980 series, Blackthorne just told everybody not to touch it. The reason he told them not to touch it was because all the Japanese people around him had an aversion to his meat-eating habits and he didn't want anyone throwing away his bird. But he didn't mean to get anyone killed. When the gardener threw the bird away, he got executed for it because he defied his lord's explicit command. When Blackthorne realized this, he was horrified. And he had a right to be horrified. The Blackthorne of 2024 has no right to be upset at all. He told them that to touch it is to die. And he's seen enough death in Japan to know that such an order would be taken seriously. Whoever decided to have 2024 Blackthorne say "sawattara, shinu", when originally all he was supposed to say was "leave it alone", is a moron. Sadly this whole adaptation has made Blackthorne a moron as well.

[–] zeesha (1826) 6 months ago

I think this adaptation make more sense than the novel. Takeshi Fukunaga and Hiromi Kamata know Japanese culture and history better than James Clavell. Will you agree?

[–] Kawada_Kira (7282) 6 months ago

Knowing more about Japanese history is one thing, writing a better story is another. Clavell had his shortcomings, but I think his version of the story was, on balance, far better than this one. And the pheasant scene definitely made more logical sense (even if it was arguably a bit of a stretch in any version) in the novel and 1980 series than in the 2024 series. There's no country where saying explicitly "if you touch this, you die", and then being all surprised when someone dies after touching it, makes any sense at all.

[–] zeesha (1826) 6 months ago

Blackthorne is surprised because when he said "if you touch this, you die", he didn't think someone is going to die for touching it. It is kinda like telling children that a monster will come to get them if they don't eat their food, which is a tactic some parents use to instill fear as a way to encourage compliance. Don't you think the parent would be surprised and upset if the monster really show up and take their children away?

A good story needs to have drama, which we can all agree on. As far as I understand it, this part of the storytelling is also about revealing the authority, obedience, and loyalty of the Japanese upper class at the time. The problem with the original version is that if Blackthorn never said, "...You die," then it would be up to him to decide how to punish those who disobeyed. In such case, executing the gardener without his approval would be disrespectful to his authority, wouldn't you agree?