Athos/Milady Relationship
I know their relationship is unhealthy and dysfunctional but I can't help wanting these two together.
Their chemistry is the best of the romantic storylines, IMO.
She's a text book sociopath. Athos deserves someone better.
shareHe deserves a lot better, and I will lose all respect I have for him if he ends up going back to her. She will never change, that much is obvious. Athos needs to grow a pair, move on and find someone new, who won't go around murdering people or manipulating everyone around her.
Porthos also needs to find someone, but that's a different story.
"The building was on fire, and it wasn't my fault." - Harry Dresden
Yeah, Athos is looking a little pathetic right now.
Frankly, I think if her secret had not been revealed and Athos and Milady's romance had been allowed to run its course, once the passion had burned itself out, she would have robbed him blind and run off to be a richer man's mistress.
That is, if she did not get pregnant (to assure her position as mistress of the estate) and kill him (as she did with Lord DeWinter in the book).
He had great chemistry with Ninon, whom I would love to see come back. (Especially as they are both now former aristocrats, that would be an interesting conversation.) Or someone, anyone, who is not completely crazygonuts.
And hopefully Porthos will get someone next season. I guess it's kind of refreshing this season that someone is not wrapped up in love troubles, but he deserves the right girl.
Oh Milady is a lunatic, she's to dangerous and it will never happen. Athos knows full well she's a murder, he'll never want her back, he just can't erase the feelings he once felt for her.
But they do have brilliant chemistry, and that's good, it makes the onscreen rivalry all the more entertaining
He had great chemistry with Ninon, whom I would love to see come back. (Especially as they are both now former aristocrats, that would be an interesting conversation.)
Yeah I agree, they had great chemistry, and it was clear that if she wasn't afraid of loosing her independence (not to mention everything she owned) and he had been soured by his former marriage, they would have at least tried getting together.
It could be interesting to see how she's adjusting to her new status, she was clearly a tough cookie so I'm sure she's doing fine. And yeah it could be interesting hearing them talk.
Really I think they would be quite good for each other, they both possessed reasonably similar personalities, and Athos is clearly a quite forward thinking man for his time period.
I'm all for her coming back. share
Really I think they would be quite good for each other, they both possessed reasonably similar personalities, and Athos is clearly a quite forward thinking man for his time period.
Quite true. He was comfortable with their "role reversal" in her library when he went to dinner at her place. He respected her point of view. They could be friends as well as lovers. And their mutual need for independence would have been a comfortable fit for both of them. And in the long term, it would be a better, slower, more believable way to draw Athos out emotionally than "le grande passion." They would slowly slip under each others' formidable defenses and fall in love.
And probably never marry, but love all the same.
However, he needs to brush up a bit on his dating skills. Taking a woman to the morgue as a first date isn't exactly, y'know, a winner.
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They could be friends as well as lovers. And their mutual need for independence would have been a comfortable fit for both of them. And in the long term, it would be a better, slower, more believable way to draw Athos out emotionally than "le grande passion." They would slowly slip under each others' formidable defenses and fall in love.
Agreed. That would have been quite nice to watch.
And probably never marry, but love all the same.
Yeah, that's probably the most likely outcome. He's never going to marry again after Milady, she doesn't want to marry. They both need there independence, but they also both could do with companionship. Likewise they both clearly wouldn't care about any gossip it caused. They sensible and practical for that.
However, he needs to brush up a bit on his dating skills. Taking a woman to the morgue as a first date isn't exactly, y'know, a winner.
Yeah, that's true. But considering he's been out of the game for what? Ten, Twelve years? I'll give him a bit leeway. share
Judging by the trailer for the next episode (and again we have to skip a week - oh well, it makes the season last longer!) the chemistry between these two will be cranking up another notch - to which I say, hooray. I am loving the banter between these two, and the will they, won't they they have going on. Just brilliant.
I have every respect for Athos, and he's handling Milady pretty well at the moment, giving as good, if not better, than he gets.
And I believe he has a very nice pair, thank you, viz what he did in the episode I've just watched.
We've been here before, but I do think it's important to understand that there is no such thing as a "text book" sociopath. They are individuals, coming somewhere along a spectrum, and not labels to hang round 17th century characters' necks.
They deserve each other at the moment, even though they seem diametrically opposed. If Milady could work FOR the Musketeers, what an asset she would be. And she seems to be working hard for that outcome, even if it is mainly to benefit herself. But then, that's what we all do. In Maslow's hierarchy of need (IIRC), we all come first in our own little worlds.
Athos does not deserve a person who murders and lies as easily as breathing.
shareWell, to quote Emily Dickinson - the heart wants what it wants.
...if his heart is suicidal.
shareThis has nothing to do with Athos and Milady *am getting rather sick of them dancing around it to be honest* but this episode - YOWZA, have we ever seen Athos THAT angry before?? When he stood there and declared to a room FULL of people that they were taking the girls and going, I equal parts :O and ī THAT'S the Athos I want to see more of - None of this moaning and moping around and unable to decide if he wants to get back with the woman who betrayed him in the worst possible way. Urgh.
"The building was on fire, and it wasn't my fault." - Harry Dresden
I couldn't agree more. That was awesome.
Likewise I liked his interaction with Milady this episode, it looks like he's finally come to except she is really is a sociopath (he outright declares there is nothing left to save in her and she is empty). While they do have great chemistry, I agree, there drawing out the moping to much.
Oh yes - that was a great moment - and was it "I bid nothing"? Great line.
But the scene in the tavern wasn't anything to do with moaning and moping around once they'd met up. Unable to decide? I think they're just dancing around each other at the moment, and I'm finding it a pretty fascinating game of wits. Who knows which way it will go - but they're not done with each other yet, not by a long chalk.
And if Athos wants to sit at a table, drinking alone (another Aragorn reference, methinks, just like that throwing open the door thing he does), well, I don't mind that one bit. The more mystery and angst the better, as far as I'm concerned.
It's too obvious to say this, but hey - the heart knows nothing of such things. The head might, the heart does not - at least, in the traditional interpretation of that division of emotion and intelligence.
sharebut I do think it's important to understand that there is no such thing as a "text book" sociopath.
There actually is, being a sociopath or having an Anti-Social Disorder, is an actual form of mental illness (granted to subject to some debate) and does have a text book definition.
Which up to date Milady has fitted. More or less straight, I mean from what we've seen she lacks any true sense of empathy, sympathy or guilt. Is unable to see people as people. And is consumed in her own narcissism and sense of self improvement.
All of that fits the criteria needed to be classed as a sociopath. While naturally in real life there are varying degree's of sociopathy and different types (such as high functioning, and low functioning) really its hard to argue she isn't one. share
catpetal-1 wrote:
Re:Milady
I do think it's important to understand that there is no such thing as a ''text book'' sociopath.
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I view the Milady character in the same way Maimie McCoy does.
These are some of the comments made by her regarding her character in series 2
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She doesn't like Milday being referred to as a 'bad girl' because it is ''far too simplistic a tag''.
She sees Milady as ''a massively damaged creature'' and she is ''trying to make her really visceral & fragile & complicated''
catpetal-1
''They deserve each other at the moment''
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I really like and agree with this.
Maimie McCoy also said, 'They both want to trust the other'
I cannot help but root for their relationship, however long it lasts. I haven't felt that way about a tv couple in a long time. And the chemistry between MM & Tom Burke is so amazing.
Those quotes are just right, Tuppence - and at some point I'll look up what Tom Burke says about the relationship because that was very much about the complexities of the relationship.
If he really did get it wrong, and (tried to) hang her rather than trusting her, then he has some apologising to do. That's what I liked about the scene in which he saved her from hanging, and that it was Catherine he saved her from - certainly that's a step in the right direction!
I thought before she might be angry that he didn't come to the crossroads soon enough; but the glove once again complicates that, doesn't it.
I love complicated relationships. They're so much more interesting dramatically than plain ole love stories.
I haven't been Milady's biggest fan thus far, but I really did like the fact that she's taking big steps in the right direction by acknowledging her wrong-doings and actually wanting to be better... Also the fact that she wants to change not just because of Athos but for herself too - that to me is the more important thing. When people try to change because of outside pressure it rarely works, but when it's something they really choose for themselves then actual progress can be made. Whether Milady will slip back into her old ways once she reaches England is another matter, I suppose. It'll be interesting to see where she's ended up in series 3.
shareThing is, she really hasn't acknowledged her wrongdoings. She blamed Athos for them.
"I became the woman you thought me to be..."
Which of course is a lie. She was always a cold hearted criminal. Milady is an accomplished liar. She does it as easily as she breathes. I think at this point she lies to herself.
I think she does love Athos as much as someone that damaged can, but no, I don't buy she really wants to change. Not really. At least not for herself. Remember earlier in the season she attempted to "embark on a new life" and that included lying to the King and becoming his mistress so she could live in luxury. (The same thing she did to Athos.) She seemed perfectly happy in that situation, not like she felt "empty" or was suffering emotionally. It's only now that her only option is Athos or leaving France that she is playing for sympathy. Milady's first instinct is to act for her own benefit, and you can't be that accomplished a lair and cold a murder without having something deeply wrong inside.
Plus she did not wait for sundown before taking off.
Good points. I don't really know what to think of Milady at this point because it feels like they've have been steering the audience one way and then another. Often writers try to make a character seem more complex by having them behave in a contradictory manner from one scene/episode/series to the next but a lot of the time it just ends up being inconsistent, and you're left thinking 'Did you intend for the character to come across that way, or did you just become bored and changed your mind?'. She certainly divides opinion which I suppose is a good thing. I still think though that if the writers were always intending to redeem her then they shouldn't have gone quite so far with her - I still can't get over the fact that she actually killed someone for a dress. Having said that, although I think that everyone on this show is terrific, I personally think that Maimie McCoy and Tom Burke are on another level entirely, so that does make their scenes particularly interesting to watch.
shareI still think though that if the writers were always intending to redeem her then they shouldn't have gone quite so far with her - I still can't get over the fact that she actually killed someone for a dress.
That's my thinking as well: The writers have simply pushed her too far into "evil" to pull the character back into a "redemption into a good person with a happily ever after." This isn't a "victim" of society or her husband, this woman is not "misunderstood." This is someone with something *seriously* wrong with her sense of morality, emotional capacity and sense of responsibility and she always has been that way. share
I also think the writers have made Milady too far gone for a happily ever after redemption. I had been hoping for her to have a redemptive death at the end of S2, but she was so enjoyable working with the boys-- and the chemistry between her and Athos is smoking hot-- that I'm fine with her sticking around for another year. I'd like to see Athos move on from his guilt and desire for her, which would require her being dead before the series ends. I tend to believe Milady more (and like her better) when she's being snarky rather than this "honesty" that she seems to turn on and off too easily, IMO. I don't trust her, it's too easy for me to believe she's playing Athos -- and I think it could be vastly more interesting a story if she is.
shareI might being fooled by something, but I really believe that Milady "honesty" it's not honest at all, it's just another lie. So yes, she still plays Athos. I remember she even says something like "look into my eyes" in the very last episode (not fully sure though) and in my own twisted world that's another way to tell somebody is lying.
shareWell if her statement was real, it's understandable that she turned evil. She was going to be raped by a man and for defending herself he was sentenced to death. Well, not very fair I guess.
I want them together too btw.
She was a criminal before she married Athos, and if her former "boss" is to be believed (in the last episode of the first season/series), she was always a cold hearted one.
And I still don't buy that Thomas tried to rape her. 1. The fiance was right there and Athos was in the house. Kind of stupid to try to rape your brother's wife while they are there. B. The information revealing who Milady was was right there on hand. C. Neither of their clothes looked like there had been a struggle.
She also showed Richelieu in season 1 ep 2 I think it was, just how adept she is at playing the little woman threatened by the big bad man.
shareI don't buy it either. We've seen her manipulate and kill too many times for me to buy her as an innocent up to her murdering Thomas. Her first response to a threat to her security was stabbing him? Not screaming for help in a house full of people or struggling? For all we know, Thomas could have been gay or a gentle soul not inclined to hurt a fly -- which could be why Athos didn't believe her story.
I love the smoking-hot chemistry between Athos and Milady and wish she was just a thief/spy and not a cold-blooded murderer, but we've seen --many times-- that she is. She needs to take a bullet for Athos and die in his arms admitting her sins ( redemption death) or be executed by the King (if she chooses to not repent). Then in season 3, I'd really like to see Athos moving on with his life.
I couldn't agree more!!!!!!
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