MovieChat Forums > Reign (2013) Discussion > Elizabeth was not a villain

Elizabeth was not a villain


They are portraying her as snobby, cunning, deceitful, a little crazy and very immature. She was none of those things. Elizabeth had a temper, yes, but that doesn't make her unstable. She was very diplomatic and intelligent and England thrived under her reign. She is still considered to be one of the most influential monarchs to date. And this show focusing on no more than her romance degrades her. She is the Virgin Queen and every scene with her goes "Wahhh, Mary!!!! Wahhh, Dudley!!! Wahhh, I'm a woman!!!"

That aint no etch-a-sketch. This is one doodle that can't be undid, homeskillet.

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Not sure I agree with all of that, but do think some of it is to put Mary in a slightly better light. I suspect some of it simply has to do with the actresses looks. Unfortunately there is still that tendency for Hollywood to typecast and/or stereotype. I would prefer a more nuanced performance myself.

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I COMPLETELY agree with you. As someone who has studied her a lot, and through that loved her more and more, I totally agree that her portrayal as the villain is awful. I'm biased, yes, but honestly she was a kick ass ruler. She loved Dudley, sure, but she loved being Queen for her country far more.

Elizabeth did NOT want to take down Mary until SEVERAL and I mean SEVERAL years of Mary plotting her DEATH and stealing HER throne. I mean, what else was she to do? Honestly? Historically, Mary wasn't very bright at all.

Yes, to fans who say this isn't a documentary, no it doesn't need to be completely accurate. And yes, they need a "villain" but man... And at this point, I don't know why they even bothered to call her Mary Queen of Scots. Should have it in some alternate reality and just taken random things from her life. Then we'd keep Francis! lol

"I can't be let off the hook because I might just get the notion that it's ok to keep running"

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I COMPLETELY agree with the OP. Couldn't have said it better myself. I am very well read on Elizabeth and all the Tudors and honestly in real life the roles of Elizabeth and Mary were reversed as they are portrayed on the show on a way. I understand it's just a show and I love the show but wow. I can barely stand the scenes with Elizabeth.

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I don't think it's fair to say that of Mary at all. The fact is, she was sent away from her country at a very young age and never prepared or trained to be a queen in her own right because it was expected that she would remain in France, likely for the rest of her life, as that country's consort, perhaps with the exception of an occasional visit. Also, for most of her childhood, no one expected the
reformation to happen in Scotland or to become such a threat to her reign or life.

It wasn't expected that Francis II would die so young and that she would need to know how to make decisions about choosing another husband as a woman and a queen, so no one ever prepared her for that. Consequently, she made those decisions unwisely and they largely contributed to her downfall.

I think it was always expected that Mary would remain in France as Francis' consort, happily bearing a Dauphin and other children, while her mother remained in Scotland as regent, succeeded by others who were trustworthy. Consequently, Mary was never trained to rule. When Francis died and her mother was gone, there was nothing for her to do but return to Scotland and blunder her way through it.

It wasn't a matter of her being stupid, just not given the training for the job in case plan A fell through. Her mother, her tutors, and Francis' family failed her. She was their responsibility. She went home to a hornet's nest of Protestants who didn't want to work with her and wanted to be rid of her. She wanted to know and love Elizabeth as a sister and Elizabeth followed her advisors who kept telling her to see Mary as nothing but a threat. Meanwhile, Mary didn't have a single friend except Rizzo and Darnley had him murdered. After that, she couldn't trust anyone because absolutely no one had her best interests at heart. They only wanted to use her for their own purposes.

It's so easy for people to see her as a fool who chose the wrong men or as someone who was unfit to rule, etc. But no one ever considers that the necessary backup plan for her to cope with what fate dealt her was never put into place.

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Well, Elizabeth herself, as well as Catherine also had crap childhoods. Some people can push through, some can't. Mary is portrayed as sweet and loving. These are only survival traits if you are married into a life of stability and money. Unfortunately, being a bit of a bitch can be a useful thing. "Tough times don't last, tough people do".
To live to lead your country through it's 'Golden Age', you have to ignore your heart, listen to reliable advisors, and be strong enough to get rid of old friends and would-be lovers if they get above themselves.
Elizabeth and Catherine would have tried to kill each other, but they would have 'got' each other, and respected that. You can almost hear Elizabeth snickering through the ages as she palms Darnley off on Mary. She knew Mary would bite. Bet Catherine snickered, too. "He's pretty? That's all Mary will notice."
And, you can see the appeal Bothwell will have when you look at Bash - a strong, manly-man who will save poor little Mary.
Know who I feel sorry for (and he's not even on the show yet - his appearance will herald the beginning of the end)? Rizzo. Poor guy probably figured he landed a plum job, set for life, musician to the new Queen of Scotland!

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It depends on your point of view. This show is from Mary's viewpoint so of course Elizabeth would be a villain to her. It's a bit refreshing to see a different portrayal of her. This isn't a show to take too seriously. Some of the storyline is for pure laughs.

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