Would the story be presented so heroically if the wife stole from her sibling, was an abusive, alcoholic who got pregnant from another man, dropped the kid off for her husband to care for, and in the meantime refused to stop sleeping with other men?
But at least she came home every night ...
Nothing in this movie is heroic
shareHe raised himself from the time he was fourteen. He felt the burden of being the provider for his family. No one saw him as a hero but he wasn't a villain either.
shareNo one forced him to pursue Rose, make all of his promises, and marry her. Like she said, he could have stepped out of the way for a real man to come to her. Again, as I said, such LOW standards.
shareNo one forced him to pursue Rose, make all of his promises, and marry her.
Not sure I'm getting your point in this discussion. Are you condemning the actors, the characters, or the original playwright for setting the low standard? Do you feel that Troy's behaviour is being praised or justified (how so? I honestly didn't see that at all)?
Both the movie and the play are simply a story about one African-American family. As far as I know, there was no intention for their lives to become a model for anyone to follow. Not all stories in life are happy ones. Death, war, moral failure, uncertainty...these reflect humanity as much as any good, joyful, inspiring experience. The subject matter may make you feel uncomfortable but you can't say it isn't based on reality. Fact: some people cheat on their spouse while married. Fact: there are people who fall in love with deeply flawed individuals. Fact: such behavioural patterns can be found all over the globe, not just within the Black community. Are you suggesting that Black filmmakers are obligated to only tell certain types of stories? I don't undrstand why you're so disappointed...and with whom.
It was the 50's, there was a low standard for black men in general. This was a man who from boyhood was never taught to read or write and never really had much in the way of talent besides baseball, and during his "day" basically coloreds couldn't even do that because baseball was all white. But Troy was actually a high standard- a man who slaved away for years and took some pride in that. But he never forgot the lack of opportunity for him and it made him bitter and also somewhat wary that his sons would face the same fate. Its a brilliant character study portrayed by one of actings best.
Trying to create a channel based on interpreting, reviewing, and even giving you something to laugh about film. Hope you enjoy what you see. Thanks in advance.
Review of the film here-https://youtu.be/IAkFp11Hwq4
1) His friend didn't behave like him.
2) The Color Purple is written about an earlier period and also deals with black men, even forgiveness, but there's a huge difference in how Mister's behavior is treated in the story versus how Troy's is treated in this one.
I can see the fact that he was a hard worker and tough on his sons, although I suppose he really had little or nothing to do with raising his first son. Where I have a problem is his cheating on Rose. Yes he hung around and continued to support her financially and she put up with it because she had no alternative, but I guess I'm missing the point. Is it that because the chips were stacked against him and many others of his generation (and I suppose they still are to this day) that the bar should be set so low for black men in general? If Troy is considered as you say a "high standard" then that's pretty sad commentary.
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I can see the fact that he was a hard worker and tough on his sons, although I suppose he really had little or nothing to do with raising his first son. Where I have a problem is his cheating on Rose. Yes he hung around and continued to support her financially and she put up with it because she had no alternative, but I guess I'm missing the point. Is it that because the chips were stacked against him and many others of his generation (and I suppose they still are to this day) that the bar should be set so low for black men in general? If Troy is considered as you say a "high standard" then that's pretty sad commentary.
Yeah, Robert, I think it's sad. "At least he came home and paid the bills" doesn't work for me. Frankly, I'm just tired of this narrative that perpetuates low standards for black men and their families. This character IS being celebrated and that's what bothers me. I'm not arguing that he should be totally pilloried, but at the same time, he should not be held up as some paragon of black manhood/fatherhood strength and constancy--which he is offered as.
It's a deeply problematic nostalgic presentation of black manhood. Why it's so dangerous is that it perpetuates the idea that women should stick by these kinds of men NO MATTER WHAT, when in fact, if a woman is in an abusive relationship, she needs to get out regardless of whether or not she's fearful of raising her kids in a single parent household, or if she has fears of not supporting or holding black men up. The sad thing is, under this kind of construction, Rose would have been presented as the villain if she had left him, if she had chosen not to glorify him in the denouement, or if she had done exactly what he did to her.
This was the 1950's those modern femninist ideas that you wished to see reflected n the movie weren't a popular thing in society let alone in the black community then.
The movie at no point paints him as a hero.
"Money's flowing, everything is fine; Got myself an Uzi and my brother a nine"
These "modern feminist ideas" are just common decency. Like: don't cheat on your wife; don't cheat on your wife and get the woman pregnant; don't cheat on your wife, get the woman pregnant, and then refuse to stop cheating; don't cheat on your wife, get the woman pregnant, refuse to stop cheating, and then dump the bastard child on your wife to raise.
And yes, he absolutely is portrayed as a heroic vision of black manhood. The central idea is that he fulfills his responsibilities by giving his check to Rose, coming home every night, and building that damn, wobbly fence. The play/film suggests that he had every reason to cut out on them like his own dad did, but he's such a good guy because he stuck around.
this pathetic lowest bar possible.
These "modern feminist ideas" are just common decency. Like: don't cheat on your wife; don't cheat on your wife and get the woman pregnant;
Ummm...methinks you are projecting a FILM CHARACTER's flawed reasoning to everyone else. I know that in Troy's mind, HE excuses HIS infidelity and other shortcomings with his spiel about providing for his family (and yes, that makes him an A-class jerk). But how is PORTRAYING that loathsome character a sign of ENDORSEMENT of him? Even Rose, who patiently stood by Troy all those years, finally reached her boiling point (she accepted the responsibility of raising Raynell, not out of love for Troy or his mistress but because she had empathy for the newborn girl. Recall her lines about being the mother to a motherless child but Troy being a womanless man). It seems you're angry because Rose's reasons for sticking by Troy and keeping his illegitimate child didn't square up with YOUR values, therefore, the whole film/play is tolerating all the bad or misguided behaviour of its characters. Serious questions: were you outraged with George Lucas when he created Darth Vader? Did you berate the entire Star Wars franchise as a result of him depicting a character with such evil motivations?
The play/film suggests that he had every reason to cut out on them like his own dad did, but he's such a good guy because he stuck around.
@Bronte_sista
Frankly, I'm just tired of this narrative that perpetuates low standards for black men and their families.
The movie isn't perpetuating anything for black people or anybody else,for that matter---again, I remind you, this film takes place in the late 1950s,NOT in today's times. It simply shows how back in the day, women were brought up to believe that they had to put up with a man's bull****, no matter how much of an a**hole he was, as long as he brought home the money and paid the bills. That's actually how life was for women in general back than. If this was made today, Troy's wife would have divorced him after she found out about the affair, and put his mistress's child up for adoption. There's no way in hell a woman would put up with that BS today---she'd be long gone before the ink dried on the divorce papers,lol.
And Troy isn't portrayed as some kind of hero in the least----once you see past how he talks himself up big, you can see that there's a man who's bitter about never having achieved his dream of playing ball, and possibly dissatisfied with his life in general. having been constantly blocked by racism and segregation as a black man at every turn, which complicated things even more. He grew up in an era where black people were constantly told that they couldn't do this or that, and that was just something he had to accept and live with in a way that we as black people today have never had to. That's obviously what made him bitter, and forced him to take such a harsh view of life. And he wasn't abusive to his wife--he never laid a hand on her. He did keep it real with her about the affair,which he could have gone on and kept under wraps forever, but he didn't. He did respect her and care about her enough to tell him that. And they did separate for a while,too---so it wasn't like he didn't get called on his affair--his wife was mad as hell about it, and she let him know that she was furious about it,too. She basically stayed with him because she'd invested 18 years of life in their marriage, and didn't just want to walk away from it---she felt she had no other options but to deal with it.
Frankly, I'm just tired of this narrative that perpetuates low standards for black men and their families.
I'm sure you made a similar complaint when you saw Raging Bull.
share@Bronte_Sista
The movie is simply a portrait of a flawed human being who is black. You see white characters portrayed like this in movies literally ALL the time. As for the "low standard of black men"---this is just ONE movie about ONE black man and his family set in a different time and place (60 years ago.) It is not representative of ALL black men---now ONE movie,TV show, or book ever could. Black people should be able to portray complex and unique characters on the screen just like anybody else does. Who said they had to be perfect all the time and why should they be? So this "low standards" things you mentioned really makes no sense, and dosen't even apply to this film. And keep in mind this was set in a time when racial segregation was a fact of life, and options for black people in terms of jobs and mobility were severely limited.
That's what makes this film so interesting---the fact that Troy isn't a perfect human being--hell,nobody is. I've seen worse fictional characters doing even worse s*** portrayed onscreen. I didn't see him as being a bad guy---he was clearly a man who survived a harsh, abusive upbringing in a racist society, and still managed to become a decent family man---who was clearly disappointed with his life because he didn't get a chance to make his one dream come true--he'd also wanted more out of life, but pretty much settled for what he could get at the time. His big mistake was basically stomping out his son's dream simply because he wasn't able to achieve his own. I mean, his son obviously wasn't a bad kid, he worked, stayed in school, and did what he was told---he didn't deserve to have his dream of playing ball cut off like that. That was just plain mean and selfish on Troy's part---he didn't have to do what he did, because he had no real reason to do it all. And he didn't even seem to care that his own son couldn't stand him,not just due to that, but because it seemed Troy had been so hard on him all his life---according to what the son said about him always shadowing him. Good film, though.
By the end, I was genuinely wondering if Denzel intended this to be a condemnation of certain aspects of black culture, or if it was simply the story of one flawed man. What do you guys think?
I can promise you a day of reckoning that you will not live long enough to never forget.
Can you please get out of your feelings???
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