I can't believe that Marc and Kay would be so careless in public s to openly kiss in a brightly lit hospital hall especially knowing that Marc's mother was due to arrive any minute.
Also, the mother's behavior over discovering their relationship is indicative of the influences that could've steered Marc away from feelings that were normal to him. The oppressive tyranny of feminine manipulation and use of men.
The kissing scene - a psychologist might say that was the subconscious in each pushing them both to the outing of their relationship.
Yes, many women can be manipulative but not all. Most mothers would have been shocked, initially at least, upon discovering so publicly that their son (ostensibly heterosexual) was in fact gay or bisexual. A little sensitivity for a mother's position please.
However, she did react more aggressively and negatively than many mothers might have done, but we are all different in Life.
Old prejudices are not easy to overcome and certainly never at the flick of a finger.
I very much agree ronfirv. Both were tired of the secrets and lies and I feel it was a kind of unconscious sabotage of the situation, especially from Marc's point of view. In my experience, it's not uncommon behaviour amongst people having affairs because it's a bit of a cowards way out (no offence to the characters meant at all) The things people find too hard to say are rendered unnecessary if someone accidentally on purpose were to see what was going on.
I think the mother deserves some sympathy also. In my opinion, she was as much troubled by the fact that this revelation effectively put an end to the perfect family life she had envisioned for Marc, with his son and girlfriend, than about her son being gay. I think she has every right to be shocked. He'd lied to everyone and it's probably the last thing she ever expected could happen when all the signs would indicate that he was happy and settled with his girlfriend.
She may well be homophobic but I believe that Marc being gay would be something she would have come to terms with if had he not lied, if had Bettina not been pregnant and if there had been any kind of warning.
The baby changes everything because it makes an unfortunate situation into a tragedy for that little family, and indeed for Kay, because I believe Marc would have gone to him in time if he hadn't felt the need to at least make an attempt at being a dutiful father.
Great film.
Yes, thanks breningirl.
The vast majority of mothers would come to terms with their son's sexuality. However, I also believe that a mother's intuition and natural knowledge of their sons would see signs of sexual preferences where others rarely, or in fact never would. It's that very special mother-son relationship. Most mothers give unconditional love and for Marc to have lied & lied was a betrayal of that ; little surprise she was angry with him!
I especially liked your final para., btw.
Only a straight person would say sexual preference. It's sexual orientation. Just like being heterosexual.or would you call that a preference too? Believe me being fat isn't easy, however trying to be straight is impossible let for gay and bi men.Yoid have to be gay or bi to truly understand the emotional and physical pain and head games you play with your elf before coming out. Even though your attraction for someone of the same sex may have started as young as 5 years old. It's an insult to call it a preference and you have no right in assuming it's that easy to be gay.
shareHow pedantic.
Incidentally, never assume a poster's sexuality on IMdB!! :)
Thanks ronfirv. Without the baby I don't think this film would have been so highly dramatic. It tears Marc apart, and rightly so. Let's face it, his behaviour is pretty abominable at times and I don't think I'd have had so much sympathy for him without this aspect.
Can I also take this opportunity to thank you for drawing my attention to this film in the first place. If memory serves, you urged me to watch it on a thread on the Brokeback Mountain message board, which annoyingly I can't find now. Anyway, thank you.
I am tired of charrin' my ass on your back burner.
Agreed again, Marc's behaviour to all concerned was appalling at times. He blundered around, cutting everyone. In his own foolish way, he was trying to please both sides but as we all saw, pleased no one. What a mess.
BbM board? That was a long time ago as haven't been near it in at least a year! Anyhow, you're welcome. :)
May I ask which country you are in? (Not USA or Canada, from your spellings). Have you seen "Beautiful Thing"? It is a coming out tale of two teens, set in London in the 90's. It is very authentic but if you're a Brit., given the setting & accents, it might appeal more.
Can't now recall if I might also have suggested you watch "No Night is Too Long", featuring the excellent actor, Marc Warren. It is a thriller which happens to have a gay character (MW) and possibly a bisexual one, based on the novel by Barbara Vine, & set in England & Alaska. (Used dvd's and book still available on amazon).
Finally, a must-watch(imho) is "Come Undone", a very good French movie made in 2000. Acting in it is highly recommendable, plus the plot really makes your grey cells work overtime! Do please get back to me when you have watched any of them. Your opinion would be of interest. (This goes for others on this board, of course!)
It was a couple of years ago, for sure. I saw FF last July so it took me a while to get around to it, but I'm so glad I did. I had wanted to get back to you about it but I couldn't find the thread because the BbM message board is a bit of a minefield!
I'm in the UK.
Funny you should mention Beautiful Thing because it's literally the next thing on my Lovefilm list. Would have watched it already if I could stream it from anywhere but I've not been lucky so far. My ears pricked up to it after Andrew Haigh mentioned it in an interview recently.
The others I haven't heard of but I will certainly seek them out and let you know my thoughts. Thanks for the recommend.
I just watched Nighthawks yesterday, which aside from the over long (imho) musical interludes and the drift off ending, I rather enjoyed.
As you're in UK you will indeed enjoy BT, (I hope!). It's set in Thamesmead during one long summer, and the acting by all actors is just excellent.I lived in London over 10 years & can identify with a lot of the characters, absolutely. It's available on amazon at reasonable price. I check that board about once a month or two or so, and will await a comment from you!
The other movies, yes, please seek them out. I wouldn't recommend a duff film to ya! :)
I trust your judgement, ronfirv. Will no doubt feel the need to talk about it once I've seen it, so will hit the board without delay.
I am tired of charrin' my ass on your back burner
I am another fan of these three films - "Beautiful Thing", "No Night is Too Long" and "Come Undone". I found parts of the latter two somewhat disturbing but all three films are very well done and worth watching. "Beautiful Thing" is wonderful and uplifting.
shareI'm picky about what I like and those didn't do anything for me.
I really enjoyed "The Falls" and "The Falls: Testament of Love". I've watched many more than that, but those are the only ones sticking out in my mind right now.
"The Circle" was rather interesting from a historical and cinematographical standpoint.
Agree about "The Circle". Superbly made and acted film and I thought very interesting from a historical perspective. This film deserved a bigger audience.
share"It's that very special mother-son relationship.
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Sometimes a little too "special".
I thought I was gonna die! - Roseanne Roseannadanna
People do it because they're sick and tired of lying and sneaking around. Also because they think they might, and hope, to get away with it.
Marc's family's influence wasn't only on expression of his sexuality, if it even was, but on everything. He became a cop and moved into a house for his parents. Not necessarily because it was his own desire. I don't see Bettina as part of that though. His care and love was genuine. Maybe having a baby, providing a grandchild, was due to their influence though. Not that he didn't genuinely love his son either. Someone can do things due to influences but those things can still be true for the person.
I didn't view Marc's mom's reaction as homophobic so much as that Marc was destroying everything. She told Kay that - that he's ruining everything. It's the crumbling of the life she wanted for her son, and for herself. Sexuality and the affair was an easy and immediate thing to pin blame on.
I can't speak to whether she would've had issue were Marc to have decided to pursue a relationship with Kay. It's possible that she would've been tolerant, even somewhat accepting, later on down the line. But people like that usually never become fully comfortable with it. There's often some modicum of discomfort underlying, regardless of if they express it or not.
I can't believe that Marc and Kay would be so careless in public s to openly kiss in a brightly lit hospital hall especially knowing that Marc's mother was due to arrive any minute.
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I really liked this scene and it was also indicative of 2 men who were in love with each other, just acting like a so-called "normal" heterosexual couple would, when no-one would bat an eye. The lead up to the scene was good also, with Kay being ridiculed in the canteen by his colleague when he stuck his bottle of water up Kay's ass. Marc was the one who attempted to get Kay off the cop that he was beating up out of anger. Kay wouldn't have intended to hurt Marc when he elbowed him in the face, it was just a volatile reaction and he was also concerned for Marc.
Marc pushed Kay away when he lovingly put his hands on his face to see the damage done. Marc understood this and Kay also wanted Marc out to his wife. I wouldn't be surprised if having Marc's mother—who he knew was arriving—see them, would have been part of his intention when he kissed Marc. The mother was understandably shocked—it wouldn't have been so bad, if Kay wasn't married with a child—but she was homophobic, controlling, ignorant..."I didn't raise you to be like that"...manipulative woman regarding her son's bisexuality.
Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪