Bisexuality - Freier Fall (2013) Discussion

[–] ronfirv 10 years ago

The attitudes are hardly 30 years out of date or Kay would never have been admitted into the Police Force. If he had, and subsequently discovered as gay, would have been dismissed on the spot.
Marc probably knew he was gay, but these feelings were suppressed.
It happens ; I have known 2-3 men who only came out after many years and in middle-age, and had been married. Some men are repressed homosexuals all of their lives, very,very sadly. This is due to family attitudes, local society pressures, and the effects on their marriages and how they feel they would be perceived, even today. Some just could not live with it.
For these reasons, Marc took a huge step, and 30 years ago, wouldn't have come close to taking it. In fact, back then, I doubt Kay would have flirted with him as he did, due the severe repercussions.

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[–] neardoodling 10 years ago

Ok, perhaps I overstated a little with the ’30 years out of date’ but the attitudes still seem oddly old fashioned to me.

For instance, Kay clearly identifies as a gay man but for some reason he’s not out at work – he even plays it straight and makes a comment about a female colleague in the showers. You think he’d be a bit more upfront considering his open lifestyle (kissing Marc in public?). Then, when the other officers find out about him, their response is almost universal disgust, ostracism and even violence – REALLY? In a western European Police force in 2013?

Similarly, I take your point about repressed gay feelings, but Marc is a young, educated man from a middle-class family. I just think that, if he was gay, someone in Marc’s position would have been able to acknowledge and accept his homosexuality, in the knowledge that it’s ok to be gay in Germany these days, before moving in with a long term girlfriend and having a baby. Perhaps if this story was about construction workers from an impoverished East German town the behaviour would have seemed a bit more realistic.

So it seemed to me that the story would have made more sense if it was about Marc coming to terms with bisexuality, this odd thing that so many straight and gay people (I speak as a gay man) seem to have a problem with. Straight people assume as soon as a man kisses another man, he’s gay (as the film seems to suggest) while gay people either see bisexuals as gays too afraid to let go of their heterosexual identity, or at worst, traitors.

Freier Fall is a film about infidelity and deceit, as much as it is about sexual identity, but Marc is such a closed off character it’s difficult to make sense of what is going on in his head. A missed opportunity to explore his inner life, I think.

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[–] ronfirv 10 years ago

I didn't see Kay as "playing straight" but just being himself.I saw Kay as a man comfortable in his own skin.
It wasn't truly a universal disgust, only Kimpinski. Others hardly sprang to Kay's defence but that wasn't ostracism.
Even in 2013, I doubt you can differentiate all that much between east and west Germany ; eastern & western Europe obviously where homophobia is rife but as you said, hardly in modern Germany. Many men still can not handle being gay never mind being open about it. To be open is very metropolitan but attitudes, I guess also in Germany, are slow to change in rural areas.
I don't see bisexuals as "traitors" but yes, mostly as men too afraid to come out as homosexual. They view bisexuality as a safe half-way house in the belief that bisexuality is more acceptable. Not true but there we have it, that's how some men are.
Your final para., yes, agreed, completely so.

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[–] rrb_1 10 years ago

I don't see why it's any more difficult to see what's going on in Marc's head than Ennis'sin in Brokeback. Also don't see why you're making such an issue of bisexuality. This is a story of what happens to a repressed man leading a straight life when he acts on his attraction to a man. That could make him bi or gay. It's immaterial to the story.

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[–] neardoodling 10 years ago

Ennis, for all his stoicism, talks to Jack about their relationship very frankly. It's clear that he sees it as a special thing distinct from any labels - he tells Jack it's a 'one-shot thing' and that he's 'not queer', along with several extended bits of dialogue where he stresses the negative feelings he has about himself and their relationship. I feel that it's possible to read lots about Ennis and the world he inhabits from his speech.

The reason I'm interested in the sexual identity of the character here is that I don't think it's addressed at all. This could be a deliberate device, but if so I think it falls a little flat. Marc never lets us into his head, and it's left to the other characters to define him, which they do by assuming he is gay.

That's why I think it's interesting that Bettina even asks "What are you, then?" when Marc turns up at her door.

What, and who, IS Marc? How does he really feel about himself and the people around him? His identity is material to the story because we are left to make inferences about it, and I suppose what I'm getting at is that I feel this is rather unsatisfying. Ennis's sexual identity is a nuanced thing, and we are given the clues to work him out, at least a little. Is Marc similarly ambiguous, or simply a gay man having a traumatic epiphany? As far as I'm concerned the film doesn't really tell us and I think it would have been more interesting if it had.

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[–] ronfirv 10 years ago

The director left us to work out for ourselves what or who Marc was.
For me at least, that was refreshing. It's challenging but keeps us (well, some of us, obviously) involved in the film, the storyline and its main characters.

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[–] rascal67 8 years ago

This is a story of what happens to a repressed man leading a straight life when he acts on his attraction to a man. That could make him bi or gay. It's immaterial to the story.
_______________

I don't see how it is immaterial to the story, when Marc's sexuality was up for contention in the context of the film's story. He denied he was "gay" when asked directly, and his wife also asked him..."What are you then?". Bisexuality exists, and if we dismiss this, then the term is redundant. Marc had sex with both females and males, this makes his "Bi" by my book. He was capable of leading a supposed hetero normal life, which is what he chose. The conflict of the story was his sexual desire for a male, and only Marc would know which desire had the strongest hold on him.

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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[–] letess 10 years ago

I think the way to look at this is Marc isn't in love with men, he's in love with this man. Whereas Kay had been with men before, Marc had not. I don't even think Marc thought about it or struggled with it. He just fell in love with Kay. Just that guy.

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[–] rrb_1 10 years ago

Marc isn't in love with men...He just fell in love with Kay. Just that guy.

And you know this...how?

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[–] letess 10 years ago

I watched the movie. And I watched again. My opinion has changed. There’s not a lot of backstory or conversation to this movie. It's all in the present.

I thought Marc fell in love with this man more than he fell for having same-sex sex. I really thought if he never met Kay, he probably wouldn’t have to come to terms with his sexuality for loving this man. I don’t think he wanted to have sex with any other male or female. I think he loved this guy more than anything and when he’s driving down the road in next to the last scene, the realization of losing him is unbearable. However, he also realized he wasn't self-destructive and he was physically and mentally stronger for the truth. You see at the beginning of the movie, he struggled while running. But at the end, he's the fastest and strongest runner and he is resolute and knows who he is, where he wants to work, and he is the one in control with family and work. And he now knows he's gay.

Kay was a real risk taker and he suffered a lot from this relationship. I also realized the second time that Kay deliberately got picked up in the raid. He wanted his police group (didn't he say he was an infiltrator) to know he was gay and that Marc was also too by association. And it worked. It put everything out in the open.

Free Fall is a tense and tight-lipped affair that sees Marc’s burgeoning homosexuality slowly take light like a smouldering bonfire. It gives the impression (quite convincingly) that if it weren’t for social conditioning, any one of us is open to any sexual persuasion, given the right opportunity and chemistry. Kay offers such a persuasive possibility and such an exciting contrast to Marc’s staid and quotidian lifestyle with Bettina, that this whole premise becomes entirely plausible. But without this opportunity, would Marc have discovered his nascent desire for same sex satisfaction?

http://www.filmuforia.co.uk/free-fall-2013/

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[–] ronfirv 10 years ago

You might have been right about Marc only loving Kay but.............when one has loved a guy so deeply, and lost (regardless reasons), then it is so easy to fall for another man again, if only to try to find the nearest guy to the one ("The One?") who was lost.

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[–] letess 10 years ago

That's what will happen. Another man. Probably better suited for Marc since Kay was a bit of a daredevil and Marc isn't. Or, a man living in Kay's shadow. So, if there's another guy, why can't it be Kay? He made it all happen. Kay is the one, really. He lives on the edge and doesn't try to hide anything. Here it is - whether you like it or not. In this movie, I thought he really took chances with his life and probably had been doing so for sometime. I thought for one moment that he may not live in this movie. He told Marc's parents he was in love with their son. This guy was amazing. He was fearless. Deliberately got caught in a police raid as a policeman to out himself and hopefully Marc so they could be together.

I really wished Marc pursued Kay, because he was so unfair to Kay. Everyone was. Kay was really one of most interesting of the characters. You could read into his past, his family, his aloneness, his struggles without it ever being mentioned. He really was a warrior. And to think they he went through so much pain in quiet and solitude. I just don't think these two were finished. Kay had to get out of the picture momentarily and "not be home" for Marc to realize what he really wanted and how much he was willing to give up. I think they had a chance. I am not sure as an audience if we can make that jump that they met up for real later on. We are just left with a "new" and better Marc and a really beautiful and compelling love story. One of the best actually.

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[–] ronfirv 10 years ago

Really enjoyed your post. One of the best summaries of Kay I have read on here, in fact.
I agree with you about him - he was full of personality and self-assurance, and as you put it, fearless. I loved that, and admire these qualities in a guy. However, guys like Kay, and with great looks to match, rarely hang around, so Marc was lucky in as much as Kay was patient too. Kay must have felt devastated at losing Marc (only his perception) as the self-assured detest failure.
If someone like Kay had fallen for me, well..........we would never have seen a story like FF.

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[–] theyellowsquad 10 years ago

Burn in hell.

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[–] letess 10 years ago

I think the kind of guy Kay is will hang around for Marc. He just needs to get some kind of response from Marc. His last words were, "what about us." And Marc's was me, me, me. Kay moved out of the apartment and trasferred to another job, I think he's close by and probably knows Marc is staying at the academy and not with Betinna. He knows Marc will want to remain close to his son and he knows Marc wants to rermain on the force. Kay is around somehere just waiting. His love for Marc was genuine. He had to get away so Marc could figure it out, And we see that Marc did figure it out and now the door is open.

Apparently since June of this year, a Free Fall 2 has been announced. This can only work if they have both actors in this movie and it needs to be more about Kay this time around. The same director who co-scripted the first movie should be hands on for the sequel. He did an amazing job capturing the onscreen chemistry of his actors. These intimate onscreen sex scenes were really passionate and loving. And Kay's first kiss with the joint in the forest was just mesmerizing.

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[–] ronfirv 10 years ago

I will only differ with you on one point - I have strong doubts Kay will be hanging around for Marc. Kay had (for me) super-human patience! He gave him chance after chance, and Marc was too timid to seize it. That hit home to Marc later, but Kay had flown the nest!
Kay is an adventurer, and as you said, a warrior. In all aspects of his life he will have moved on and will be up for the chase all over again. That's Kay's core personality.

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[–] letess 10 years ago

I agree with you. Kay is not waiting.

But as far as moving on, I don't know if he ever went for stability or longevity in anything. I think he's had many relationships but very few lasting ones. I bet his family was a real pill and growing up was not easy. Marc might have been the closest to the real thing; that's why he hung on when it really was unbearable. Kay has a tough time fitting in because he puts himself in impossible situations and in harm's way. Women are drawn to him, but he's not inteterested and he doesn't pretend to be, which probably angers people like Limpinski who tries so hard but no one likes him.

The question is probably not whether Kay has moved on or would even be open if Marc crossed his path again, but whether Marc is just content for having the relationship showing him his true self and will look to a new future with someone else unencumbered by the past. A fresh start. He is also alone at the end.

I guess if they did a second movie, I think I would just like to see Kay - Kay's story. He just fascinated me. He is magical. He has charm, humor, beauty, grace. He's sexy, courageous, fierce - he's a gift. On the other hand, he's a risk taker and puts himself in danger and you hope nothing happens to him.

Actually, it's mentioned in the suppossed sequel that it takes Marc two years to find Kay. So, Kay was not waiting and he was nowhere to be found and Marc did go looking. So, you were right - he moved on and out of sight. Both meet up in Berlin on an assignment it says.

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[–] ronfirv 10 years ago

You have really well and truly got into Kay's inner self, and I am with your assessment of him all the way. What a catch he would make but although our two personalities would fit Kay's like a glove, not everyone's would. Being so self-assured would threaten those less self-confident, and many are wary, to say the least, of risk-takers in Life.
But yes, a fascinating character all round, and definitely a guy I'd happily want to call my best friend if not my lover.

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[–] vvanningogh 10 years ago

I remember being very surprised when Kay told Marc to accept that he's gay, because I had been watching with the assumption that Marc was very bisexual. I never once got the impression his love for Bettina was fabricated or forced; he simply found something in Kay that was steering him away from his current relationship, which caused the internal conflict going on. Even now, I still watch with the perception that Marc is bisexual, not gay, though I could very well be wrong in my interpretation. Do any of you know if the writer(s) have touched on this subject?

"Life, uh..., finds a way."

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[–] letess 10 years ago

Except he could no longer be with or have sex with Bettina. He said he was suffocating. He really only wanted Kay. I actually don't think he was with any women after it ended with Bettina. I think he probably went looking for Kay and if that failed, he was alone until he fell in love with another guy.

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[–] vvanningogh 10 years ago

No longer craving intimacy with a current partner is a typical reaction from someone engaging in an affair, though, especially in the film and television world; it causes friction between characters, thus raising the stakes and ensuring drama.

Personally, I took it as Marc feeling guilty and confused, which led to him pulling away from Bettina as he explored what he had with Kay. I do think Kay was the first real instance of Marc being physically AND romantically attracted to a guy, which resulted in the emotional back-and-forth mess he became. Early on, he certainly didn't seem to be faking the pleasure he had while being intimate with his girlfriend. Again, that's just my interpretation. I don't want to paint what I'm saying as fact, because I'm definitely not trying to. I AM interested in what the director/writer(s) would have to say, however. I have no qualms if Marc is completely gay, as it would offer more character analysis opportunities during a rewatch, if anything. I suppose having Marc as a bisexual character just... seems a little refreshing? Wishful thinking on my end, perhaps.

Gay, pan, or bisexual, I really enjoyed watching a character with two romantic partners slowly fall into the deep end because of his confusion and unfaithfulness. I might be in the minority here, but I was glad Kay upped and left at the end, because Marc was stringing him along and the entire situation was super unhealthy. On the other hand, I did have sympathy for Marc, because he was confused and lost. Here's hoping for that sequel, eh?

"Life, uh..., finds a way."

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[–] letess 10 years ago

A lot of things were left unclear and apparently this was deliberate. Also, there weren't a lot of words - conversations were actually nonverbal and that was deliberate too according to the director/writer and actors. It mentioned the ending was not "happy," but it was existential - Marc could breathe. But it is Kay that I wondered about. He vanished and for good reason. That last scene of him looking pensive on the balcony - "what about us?" And, Marc gives him the keys and no words at all. I really felt for Kay, and yes kudos to Kay for leaving. What hell did he go through and he did so with so much grace.

The way the movie was left in 2013 is different then what the sequel might be about. I don't think they expected such a reception. The sequel was definitely announced in June of this year and is listed in IMDB. Same writers, director and actors. It mentions Marc meets up with Kay on an assignment in Berlin after two years of trying to locate him without success. I don't know - is it for real, the sequel? If it's true, I like that Marc went after Kay and I like that Kay disappeared and didn't make it easy, because I don't think that is what we are left with in this movie as it stands now.

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[–] ronfirv 10 years ago

I doubt you are in a minority when you were glad Kay "upped and left". I too felt that action was overdue on Kay's part. Not sure I would have done exactly as Kay did but I would have ended the relationship once and for all, face to face. And I would have told Marc exactly why it had to end, no holds barred!

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[–] davemerino 9 years ago

Why is it so hard for people, especially gay men, to accept that a man could have grown up not being attracted to males, but one day meets someone who makes his heart skip a beat?

It's rare, but it happens. So I find it believable that Marc could be stuck on the fence - he wants both pastures.

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[–] MayKasa 8 years ago

It's really not so rare. I'm only speaking from personal experience and candid conversations I've had with close friends.

Back in the 1990's, I knew a handsome young man who was engaged to be married. He really loved women - everything about them. He became friends with a charismatic, out-of-the-closet young gay man and fell in love. It caused him personal conflict. The homosexual accepted that his friend was "straight" and was not a person who was interested in heterosexuals other than friendship. However, the straight guy pursued him and they had an affair. They were the cliched friends and lovers.
The straight guy had no intentions of giving up his heterosexual lifestyle, even after having an affair with the gay man. But he confided in a close friend: "If I were ever to be gay, there's only one guy I'd be with and it would be ________."

I don't think he was gay or bi. He simply fell in love with this particular gay guy.

What impressed me about this was that he pursued his desires (albeit in a somewhat clandestine fashion i.e. he wasn't honest with his fiancé...though they eventually broke up, he married and had children with a beautiful women years later) in spite of society's norms.

That's one detailed story. I've heard quite a few other stories like that one. (I'm not talking "heard" from a friend of a friend; I'm talking that the information was shared and processed with me.)

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[–] scififangeek 9 years ago

The sexuality issue is purposely left gray which I find refreshing. Sometimes love and life is a gray area. We're not as easy to compartmentalize as people think/wish we were. It happens in real life that someone could fall for a person of the sex that's opposite the one they're attracted to.

I don't see him ever going for another guy. Dudes, just because a guy goes for a guy doesn't mean he'd go for another guy or any other guys. Kay was a special circumstance, like Marc said, a one-time-thing. It doesn't make Marc gay or bisexual or anything else other than what he labels himself as; it makes him Kaysexual.

Marc began to pull away from Bettina sexually out of guilt? Possibly, but I don't believe so. More likely, Marc was demisexual - only capable of sex with someone he loves one relationship at a time. At the time, the person was Kay so Bettina lost out.

He wasn't "closeted" or "faking it" with Bettina either. That love and relationship was very genuine. Marc got curious because there was an intense, never-felt-like-that-before thing with Kay. At first it was just animal attraction. But then he accidentally fell in love with him. Obviously a deep enough love to turn his own life upside-down.

As a bisexual person myself who tried on other labels but they never fit, I don't see Marc as bisexual, and certainly not gay. If that's what he would want to label himself as after such an experience, though, who am I to judge. But I don't think we should label him. We should just make ourselves comfortable with the idea that there is no label.

Added:

You bring up why didn't people ask if or assume Marc could be bisexual. It's because the world is very all-or-nothing. Either you're gay or you're straight, and expected to choose. Unfortunately, under all that pressure a lot do, which is why it looks like bisexuality is a stepping stone to coming out as gay. For some it might be, but for many I don't think it is. When I was younger, I felt forced to choose a side and I did. But no matter what side I chose I was denying a big part of myself. So I said screw it and refused to contribute to the bi-erasure. Now I correct anyone and everyone who label me otherwise.

Strangely, in my life anyway, straight people have been more accepting of bisexuality than lesbians and gay men. There's surprisingly a lot of bi-bashing (and trans-bashing) in the queer community. I don't know why. Maybe it's because bisexuals threaten the concept that it's not a choice somehow. But I didn't choose to be bisexual either and can't choose who I'm attracted to. It's not 50/50 for me, more like 70/30 men/women. Why should any of us cut out a whole nother part of ourselves?

I've seen the complaints before that bisexuals can't be trusted, we're greedy, wishy washy, cheaters. We're no more or less any of those things than gay and straight people are. We're just as capable, and can have preferences for, long-term monogamous relationships all the same. If someone has been with a bisexual person who's wishy washy and/or a cheater, that person is wishy washy and a cheater. It has nothing to do with being bisexual.

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[–] neardoodling 9 years ago

Well, it's been a while since I've checked on this thread, but I just wanted to say thank you for sharing your thoughts here. It's really insightful to get a bisexual person's perspective on Marc.

I think I wanted the film to acknowledge Marc's Bisexual identity and then explore it. But, as you and other commenters have pointed out, that wasn't the director's intention and the ambiguous nature of Marc's identity was deliberate.

I suppose I wanted Marc to be Bi because I don't recall seeing a film that dealt with a bisexual male character in a mature and sensitive way, and I am interested in trying to understand more about it.

What you say about straight people being more accepting than gay people is very interesting to me. As a gay man I do hear these negative comments from other gay men, sadly. It cuts both ways though. What if straight people find it easier to accept Bisexual people than to accept gay people?

I think the fault ultimately lies with heteronormative society. The unspoken assumption that because heterosexuality is the 'default position' it is really the best one.

It's a difficult step for people to let go of the security that comes with being straight and live an openly gay life.

Biphobia in the gay community might come down to an unspoken, mistaken and resentful belief that Bi people haven't had to give up their straight privilege in the same way. In short

'You want to play our game, but you won't join the club. That's not fair'

Meanwhile Straight people are more relaxed about Bisexuals for the same reason. It's much more comfortable to them to see a Bi person as fellow traveller with an adventurous side. In short

'You can play a few matches for them if you like, just as long as you stay on the team'

I would love to add more to this but I'm aware it's turning into an essay so I'll stop there.

Ultimately though, I hope you felt the film was worth watching - I enjoyed it, despite my misgiving, and would like to see the sequel if it emerges.

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[–] bradsteffensen 9 years ago

The movie was more about love than sec that's why his feelings for Kay were so hard to just ignore. He's still bi but who you fall in love with when you're bi is pretty fluid. I've lived a girl I wanted to be with forever and a guy the sane way. There are some extraordinary ppl in the world male and female.

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[–] scififangeek 9 years ago

You said it, brother. 👍

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[–] ItsLukeyBitch 9 years ago

Marc was bi, it was clear, he opressed his feelings due to the society he was leaving, Kay apparently had a great gaydar cause he saw behind the mask and took iniative and then the romance started.

Marc wasn't gay, he clearly cared for Bettina and even after the affair started he went there and kissed her trying to convince her to have sex, but she was pissed.

I'm not sure he known about being bi, i think if he knew he denied such things just like he denied his attraction to Kay later and went to punch him.

"No one is gonna take my soul away i'm living like Targaryen"

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[–] morrobay 9 years ago

Marc wasn't gay, he clearly cared for Bettina and even after the affair started he went there and kissed her trying to convince her to have sex, but she was pissed.

I read that scene differently; I didn't see it as Marc caring for Bettina, more of a hangover from the ecstasy, or lingering affects of the drug...he wanted more of Kay...he was trying to duplicate the feeling of being with Kay by trying to have anal sex with Bettina...not to say he didn't still care for her, but in that scene it was all about sex.

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[–] ronfirv 9 years ago

Good point,morrobay.

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[–] ItsLukeyBitch 9 years ago

He could have easily gone after Kay to have another session of hot anal sex, however he went to his wife.

If he was just gay i'm sure he would have problems with erection and Bettina would have noticed something was wrong just like she knew he was cheating on her, she had great intuition, in his sex scene with Bettina on the beginning of the movie he didn't showed any difficulty in erection.

He was bi for sure, he was just discovering a side of himself with Kay, Kinsey scale supports this, people in life evolve sexually, in certain years they show more attraction to one gende than the other.

I don't want sex, i want the things that lead to it: the slow kissing, neck kisses, biting, grinding

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[–] Kats987124 9 years ago

Completely agree. Bisexual erasure is a real problem and there were so many points in this film where it could have been addressed. However...

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