MovieChat Forums > This Is England '90 (2015) Discussion > Why the assumption of Combo's death?

Why the assumption of Combo's death?

posted 9 years ago by john-aspinall82
14 replies | jump to latest

It seems to be a repeated fact in other topics that Combo is DEFINITELY dead.

We didn't see anything, hear anything or know anything beyond his point of exit from the van.

I can see why people have come to that conclusion, but it's a bit of a stab in the dark in my opinion. We simply don't know for sure.

I know it's been said TIE is now done and dusted, but I get the feeling it'll be back and so will Combo. They left it very open ended, especially with the conversation between Lol and Milky at the reception in the pool room.

[–] The_White_Hotel 9 years ago

The question is what else could possibly have happened to him? I can't think of any other realistic or likely outcome.

Reality is the new fiction they say, truth is truer these days, truth is man-made

[–] sb_86 9 years ago

they might have just given him a beating

[–] The_White_Hotel 9 years ago

Then why has he been missing for two months, why did he react so strongly after being taken out of the van, why did Milky have that terrible look on his face (both at the time and at the wedding later)? That explanation just doesn't fit.

Reality is the new fiction they say, truth is truer these days, truth is man-made

[–] sb_86 9 years ago

You're right, he was obviously killed I'm just trying to play devil's advocate. It also seems a bit extreme on Milky's part to have someone killed just because they battered you.

[–] The_White_Hotel 9 years ago

Agreed, very extreme, but it appears to be something that Milky's family agreed upon whilst he was close to death in the hospital rather than his own plan.

Reality is the new fiction they say, truth is truer these days, truth is man-made

[–] Sanctuary20 9 years ago

You guys have to remember that Milky wasn't just given a push to the face. He took a brutal beating where he endured several full swinging punches and stomps on the head for what seemed to last a lengthy 30 seconds. That type of beating is would be hard for any type of body to cope with and Milky's lucky to have not had brain damage let alone survive the assault. Getting stomped on the head by a full grown man using all his might is no joke...Combo nearly killed Milky.

That said,giving Combo the death penalty is waaay too much. Milky and his family should have just beat him up and left him it at that. Killing Combo showed that Milky was as bad, if not worse than he was as his actions were that of a man fully in control whereas with Combo is was blind rage/jealousy/racism, etc.

My strength is greater than my weakness

[–] bdickus 9 years ago

Yep. Look at the thumping the kid got in Neds? Pretty similar to Milky's beating. But he seemed to walk away fine, boning Woody's GF and everything. Is Combo dead? We'll see in the next one.

[–] James_R_Woolley 9 years ago

If it's the ending of the drama and takes over the final scenes as it did, then surely to SHOW exactly what happened to Combo would have been far more meaningful and effective. Can you imagine Scorsese ending TIE '90 like this?

I'm sorry but for all of the parts of this last series I liked, a lot of it felt like padding and treading water, including this last episode.

The entire last 15 minutes were spent dealing with Milky's drunken state and denial of things to Lol, then we're shown him in a state of sorrow and regret to close the whole thing. That's really the END of the whole thing?

Did the whole last series not feel like it was padded out incredibly by Meadows' co-writer Thorne? Some of it was good, other parts felt like the writer of Skins had come in and introduced various 'shock' plots just to grab an audience. Hey, that's what happened in fact right?!

Lastly, we're left with various loose ends which don't seem just natural but forced, like an over-dramatic Skins season closer. Yes, I've watched Skins and really enjoyed it in fact - but the teaming of Shane Meadows with the Skins writer was clearly a BAD MOVE from the start.

We ended up with the worst of both worlds and Meadows diluted and confused.

[–] RicemanDan 9 years ago

Laughable comments. "Meadows diluted and confused". Where do these nobodies get off? TiE is one of the finest pieces of TV ever produced. It's real life/experiences put on camera, but produced in an exceptional way, where you forget that the camera exists: you're placed in the front room (such as the dinner scene, with Shaun, in tears, not knowing where to look; the viewer feels like head of the table: it's the most distressing, but pulsating viewing I've experienced).

When you make something this realistic, you don't go for Hollywood endings and neatly wrapped up packages of storyline. It ended on a beautiful note with the reunion of Lol/Kelly. Lol is the central character, the strength of the show. For her to have this happiness, is what the show always strived for. Life goes on, some people are happy, some people are sad (Milky). That's life. No frills: Scorsese's ego couldn't allow something this raw and real.

So it's your viewing mindset that is diluted and confused. But that's why you're hear and not producing your own shows.

Had a ridiculous chat with someone about it - he wanted to see combo tortured to death and thinks he's still alive. I argued he obviously wasn't, the impact was far greater this way + it's not a saw type torture porn film. He reckoned loads of people on the Internet weren't happy about not seeing it and that they always showed violence before e.g showed combo beating milky up. Tried to make him understand it was totally different, but wouldn't sink in. Frustrating alcohol-fueled chat that one! Some people just shouldn't watch shows they can't grasp.

SO back to the OP: were Stephen Graham's death-curdling screams not enough to convince you!?!?! They were harrowing! He's one of the finest actors this country has produced. If he can't convince you of his character's outcome, no one can!!!

[–] James_R_Woolley 9 years ago

Okay, by your estimation, anyone who found flaws with TIE '90 should not be writing on here but producing their own shows?!

Your main argument is that the show was realistic, but I didn't find it that way. 'Real life experiences' put on camera? The whole thing felt largely very unreal and very acted out. Improvised largely, but that was very obvious. Whilst '86 and '88 felt fresher, something really felt a bit dragged-out by this one. A few scenes were strong, namely with Stephen Graham. Such a great actor just lifted everything.

So you're saying that TIE '90 was superior to any work by Scorsese? That's one hell of a claim.

Yes, we heard Combo yelling 'I don't wanna die!' but the door banged shut and it was left deliberately unclear. The promise of more story to come is there, whether its a special long episode maybe, I'd say that is the best option by far considering this series felt so tired. Don't get me wrong, some of it felt really great - some of it I loved. But that made the flaws more apparent.

Which UK dramas are you comparing TIE '90 to, to say it is one of the greatest ever produced? Please tell me about what shows going back to the 70s and onwards this is far superior to? Otherwise you do seem to be just making grandiose, inflated statements which you can't back up. You're clearly a bit young and not educated in tv history. Meadows would balk at being told his show was the best ever made.

[–] RicemanDan 9 years ago

Maybe some of my overreactions were in excited response to your distaste for Meadows. Insulting his thought-process just didn't sit well with me. He's achieved a unique piece of television; that is clear. I gave 86,88,90 a miss at first, thinking they were spin-offs of the film, from a different director and cast. This meant I watched them all in the same month. I thought they were consistently well-made.

I may only be in my 30s, but you only have to compare TiE to Corrie or Enders to realize the huge gap in acting quality from mainstream TV. I'd love to hear of some old TV (doesn't have to be UK only does it?) you know that raised the bar to name TiE mediocre.

The sad fact is, you wanted Combos predicament on a silver platter, with a plastic spoon. If there is a special or more TiE I can guarantee you Combo won't be in it. If he does magically appear, then; you can call Meadows diluted and confused.

[–] James_R_Woolley 9 years ago

I don't think age actually matters, you're similar aged to me in fact. I wasn't insulting Meadows' thought-process, but more his co-writer Thorne.

That's not much of a comparison though, TIE '90 to a soap.

Much of TIE '90 felt padded-out and then the more dramatic elements are shoe-horned in, with the Combo scenes - that's how I felt. It also played like an episode of Skins, which Jack Thorne also wrote - with a shock ending.

The fate of Combo won't change my viewpoint on either 'diluted' or 'confused' for this series or a further one. I just felt like Combo was only in it to supply a dramatic shock ending. Why is our last shot of Milky - who was barely in this series or the ones before it? I'm sorry but dramatically it all didn't hang together to create really powerful drama.

I am not an expert on TV history but here's my own favourite tv series, UK and US ones - you'll have to tell me which ones you're familiar with?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tales-Out-School-Films-Leland/dp/B004AGEOL6

You have probably seen Made in Britain with Tim Roth?

Edge of Darkness (UK)

G.B.H. (UK)

The Prisoner (UK)

Twin Peaks (US)

[–] 9 years ago

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[–] hinterlight 9 years ago

'We didn't see anything, hear anything or know anything beyond his point of exit from the van.'
apart from seeing him being dragged into a building by two burly thugs whilst all the the time pleading and saying 'i don't want to die.' you don't take people out to undisclosed locations like that simply to give them a beating.
the series is done. we began TIE '86 with lol and woody failing to get married and end '90 with them finally tying the knot and milky's revenge is complete. loose ends all tyed up.