MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (2019) Discussion > Major spoilers, enter at your own risks

Major spoilers, enter at your own risks

posted 5 years ago by fc31 (5371)
52 replies | jump to latest

1) Leia was a Jedi, trained by Luke, has a light saber of her own but it was never shown with her, later was given to Rey by Luke (force ghost). In this movie Rey was trained by Leia.

I don't think that was planned from the beginning. Otherwise why did Rey seek Luke in the first place? Couldn't Leia have trained her from the beginning?

2) There was no explanation how Palpatine came back, other than "dark side has many abilities".

3) Rey is Palpatine's grand daughter, which from what I see it, quite hard to explain considering just how old Palpatine was.

4) In this new movie Palpatine asked Rey to kill him so their spirits would merge. And Palpatine was the merged result of all Sith. Rey refused and Palpatine regained youth (well, not as old as before at least) and strength by sucking the life force out of Rey and Kylo (That is new). Rey defeated Palpatine by channeling all Jedi (think witches in "The vampire dairies").

5) Rey immediately died afterwards (exhausted from the channeling?). Kylo revived her, Rey kissed Kylo and Kylo immediately died afterwards with a smile on his face, seem to be the consequence of resurrection. The whole thing felt arbitrary.

6) Palpatine had an entire fleet of planet killing star destroyers, but they all parked in close formation without shields, so they were just sitting ducks. I can not think why they were not properly deployed.

7) Force ghosts in this movie can hold light saber and lift aircraft, so I don't know why all the Jedi force ghosts did not gang up on Palpatine and did nothing to the first order.

8) All Skywalkers died in this movie (the end of Skywalker bloodline and heritage). In the very end Rey found Vader's uncle's abandoned residence, seemed to want to settle there (not opening Jedi academy or anything), and changed her name to Skywalker, probably ashamed of Palpatine heritage.

The entire movie felt empty, corny and ridiculous.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

1. Not to mention awful CGI of Luke and Leia's young faces in the jungle during the training.

2. Exactly, same for the Death Star 2 on a different Endor moon than what it was orbiting when "destroyed". Guess Abrams couldn't be bothered to think of a reason, or hoped viewers wouldn't notice.

3. Oh GOD, the cringe! It's like they're saying "even the most evil being's relative can be redeemed".

4. Where's that old IMDb "bashing your head against a brick wall" emoticon when you need it?

5. Yeah, that was a nutty new Force power.

6. So was the massive civilian fleet led by the Falcon. Why are spaceships shown so close together in Sci-Fi movies? It only leads to trouble, as Starship Troopers proved. Why do such a stupid thing, except that it "looks cool"?

7. I hated that moment, when Luke as a Force Ghost lifted his own X-Wing out of the ocean. I mean, Force Ghosts may as well be the Army of the Dead from Lord of the Rings at this rate!!

8. I was quite surprised that the Lars homestead wasn't already occupied by someone else! I mean, who cleared the skeletons away? They wouldn't just let a prime piece of real estate be abandoned, even if such a tragedy had occurred!

The entire movie was GARBAGE with fan service and a mass of tropes. End of.

[–] fc31 (5371) 5 years ago

Massive fan service, the plot is basically ESB and ROTJ in one, continue the remaking tradition of JJ. We probably can skip the previous movie without missing much.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I'm guessing part of the reason for the crappy CGI is that the rumors of multiple ends being shot right up to the last minute were true.

They were stretched too thin, didn't have the resources or time to polish everything.

[–] tmoldovan (35) 5 years ago

Agree 100%.
How can they not write a thought out trilogy with SW as the source material?

Edit: Everything seemed rushed too. Like they were trying to wrap up 40 years of storytelling in 2 hours because they had to. (When in fact they had a whole trilogy to do it.)

Back to reading Thrawn for me.

[–] fc31 (5371) 5 years ago

Exactly. You would think so much money at stake they would at least have the basic plot lines of the whole trilogy down before shooting the first movie.

[–] gantz8596 (203) 5 years ago

The Rey is a Palpatine is the biggest sin for me. Having twists in movies is a normal thing, having a twist without clues beforehand is just lazy writing. There is nothing pointing at this fact in the previous two movies.

[–] fc31 (5371) 5 years ago

Exactly. If that was planned beforehand there would have been a shadowy figure talking to Snoke in at least one of the previous movies. I think that script was completely re-written. JJ probably had a "who wrote this crap" moment and tore up the old script and wrote a new one.

[–] tmoldovan (35) 5 years ago

They could have easily made her a clone of Palpatine, which I thought the cave/mirror scene was hinting at. Could have even fought a Dark Rey in this one...

[–] fc31 (5371) 5 years ago

Palpatine clone? He fell into to the reactor core of the death star and then the death star is blown into pieces, so where could they collect the genetic material to make clone? And if it is possible that Palpatine could possess a cloned body then that means he is already immortal.

[–] FootOfDavros (8142) 5 years ago

Exactly. Let's watch this again:-
https://youtu.be/dv45FxbXb_0?t=2m55s

It's very clear nothing of Palpatine could possibly have survived, nor were there any large chunks of Death Star debris left.

But now we can at least thank Jar Jar because by including these elements he is in his own sneaky way acknowledging these films do not follow on from the events of the OT and therefore should not be considered canon.

[–] tmoldovan (35) 5 years ago

I’m not sure if you guys are messing with me, or maybe just didn’t think it through. The genetic material could have been collected *prior* to Palpatine falling down the shaft.
Secondly, cloning is a well established *thing* in the SW universe, so it’s not a stretch to think that the person who orchestrated creation of a clone army could also start a side-cloning project for himself.
And lastly, Palpatine cloning himself was a well established storyline in the expanded universe, which, i know, is not cannon anymore.

With all this being said, I’m still not sure who Rey’s parents were. If the ROTS was supposed to shed light on that, I must have missed it. (I did see them in the few scenes, but have no real idea who they were.)

[–] fc31 (5371) 5 years ago

Palpatine could use a clone as a son, but I think it is also well established that you can't use clone as a method to extend your life.

[–] tmoldovan (35) 5 years ago

While that is well established in the real world, in the universe where some people can transfer their consciousness into the great beyond, it is not that far fetched that a sith lord could transfer theirs into a clone.

Not only that, but that kind of transfer was exactly a point raised in this movie.

[–] fc31 (5371) 5 years ago

I think that would be a logic error in the movie. If such a technology were available why would Darth Vader still have a mechanical arm and wear a suit to breath?

Such consciousness transfer should happen when Palpatine was still alive, not after he is blown into pieces. What you are talking about is that Palpatine is a god and can't be killed.

Like in this movie, if what you said were true then Palpatine would definitely still be alive, he was not even blown into pieces.

[–] Boricanator (1440) 5 years ago

In the EU Palpatine can transfer his spirit to new Clone bodies.

[–] fc31 (5371) 5 years ago

What about after he was killed and his body blown into pieces, can he still do that?

[–] tmoldovan (35) 5 years ago

The story, in the EU, goes that Palpatine had a series of clones of himself created for backups. I find it more believable that he could transfer his consciousness into a clone at the moment of his destruction, than that Ray would kiss Kylo.

Anyway, not to belabor the point, the Palpatine clone project, is not so far fetched, and in my opinion, would be a better story than the case of Rey’s poorly defined parents.

Imagine if emperor had 2 Rey clones, and our Rey had to fight a dark, sinister version of herself, her sister...

[–] fc31 (5371) 5 years ago

Like I said before if that is true, that means Palpatine is immoral and can't be killed. Then what is the point of the entire story?

[–] Boricanator (1440) 5 years ago

Yes, even after he died, he could do that.

However, the catch was that it had to be a mindless body like a baby or a clone.

In Empire’s End, he tried to occupy Leia’s youngest baby. But then an old Jedi got in the way and took his spirit.

By doing so, he took Palpatine to the netherworld of the Force and made sure he stayed there.

[–] tmoldovan (35) 5 years ago

Right. If the Jedi are immortal (via the force ghosts), it is not far fetched to think that a Sith could have figured it out. To be honest, considering the topic, Sith would be more likely to discover imortality through the force, which was hinted at in the prequels.

[–] fc31 (5371) 5 years ago

Jedi was meant to be immortal spirits, it is this stupid movie made them be able to interfere with reality. Palpatine would be immortal for real, that is entirely different.

[–] tmoldovan (35) 5 years ago

I’m not sure I’d agree that Jedi were meant to be immortal spirits.
The force is immortal, the Jedi way or the Sith way are the two ways of “discovering” it.

(And had the writers been more aware in their approach, they could have made a third, more *balanced* (hint, hint) way that acknowledges that life is neither true purity nor true villainy, but a mixture of both, and our daily struggle is to keep ourselves in the balance.)

[–] fc31 (5371) 5 years ago

Whatever Lucas had before is not far from Christian beliefs, good guys live forever in the force (heaven), and bad people are not rewarded as such.

I think writers found out that the forever calm Jedi without any fear and desire is not good for story telling, so they are trying to get rid of that.

Your theory is neither here nor there, but to plug the obvious logic problem of this movie in an obvious way: Palpatine is immortal and can't be killed and that is why he is back. No writer wants a story that villains can't lose, so I don't think that is their intention.

[–] fc31 (5371) 5 years ago

There is no catch. If he could do that he would have cloned countless bodies and stored them throughout of galaxy. He will keep coming back.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

What kind of genetic material are we talking about, who would have collected it, and how?

[–] tmoldovan (35) 5 years ago

Palpatine could have started working on clones of himself at literally any point, especially after the clone technology used for the clone army.

[–] fc31 (5371) 5 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Boricanator (1440) 5 years ago

7) Force ghosts in this movie can hold light saber and lift aircraft, so I don't know why all the Jedi force ghosts did not gang up on Palpatine and did nothing to the first order.

I think that Force Ghosts could only do that in the planet Rey was on. That planet has an ancient Jedi Temple and unusually strong in the Force.

[–] fc31 (5371) 5 years ago

Is that your own speculation or there are bases on what you said?

[–] Boricanator (1440) 5 years ago

That is just my theory.

[–] Ziggy (1799) 5 years ago

1) Leia was a Jedi, trained by Luke, has a light saber of her own but it was never shown with her, later was given to Rey by Luke (force ghost). In this movie Rey was trained by Leia.

I don't think that was planned from the beginning. Otherwise why did Rey seek Luke in the first place? Couldn't Leia have trained her from the beginning?

Rey didn't seek Luke in order to be trained. She wanted him to travel to the Resistance base with her to help fight the First Order.

[–] fc31 (5371) 5 years ago

That was because Luke was the only Jedi, now we all know he wasn't, so there was no urgency to look for him anymore. The fact that so much trouble on obtaining his location becomes ridiculous at this point.

[–] Ziggy (1799) 5 years ago

I'm not sure I completely agree with you on that point, but Luke was also viewed as a hero and a legend. Having him on their side would inspire others to follow.

Remember, Rey fully expected Luke to be willing, if not eager, to hop on the Falcon and head straight for the Resistance base. It was at least a couple of days before she talked about needing someone to help her.

[–] fc31 (5371) 5 years ago

Rey fully expected Luke to be willing, if not eager, to hop on the Falcon and head straight for the Resistance base.

Anyone can look for Luke and ask him back, why would they send Rey if it was not about training her?