A NON Star Wars Fan...could someone explain? - Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (2017) Discussion

[–] tom8 (3119) 7 years ago

not a fan before i saw the recent 3 movies, TFA, Rogue one, TLJ..... i liked them. But the forced diversity made me puke.... they were all black and asian, and all the rebel leaders were women.
the bad guys/nazis was of course white men.

Ridiculous, the producers political views shined through and even beat the audience over the head with them.
Typical american TV , movies and media . I am not American by the way

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[–] billbrown7071 (3195) 7 years ago

you know what, I noticed that too

I didnt know it was a complaint or problem though until after I watched...

But there was at least 7 times during the film where I thought to myself, "Wow they are really forcing Humor and Jokes here" and I also was constantly boticing The way they were trying to make Women Leaders and make Women look powerful..

again I have no problems with either of these things if done right...But for me, They seemed FORCED and seem way too over the top...

a good example for me, Is Thor 2...I'm a big CBM fan and MCU fan...The MCU films get a alot of complaints for having too much Humor/Jokes...But The Majority of the MCU films dont feel forced to me...

But Thor 2 is different, from the very first time I saw it and every time since, The Humor in that film is just Forced and way over the top, I swear its like the had a scipit and Idea for the movie, But then when The Avengers Hit, They decided hey we got to make this more Avengers like, more Humor and More jokes...The overall movie was not very good(IMO by far the weakest MCU film) but for Me, Its the only MCU film where the Humor and Jokes stick out as Painful and over the top....while watching The Last Jedi I got the same feeling...

I did like the last Jedi, rated it 8/10...but IMO its a HUGE step down from TFA and Rogue One

I loved TFA and Rogue One...I rated RO 9/10 and TFA 8.5/10

for me Rogue One is the better overall movie but I enjoy and can rewatch it more

Its Weird...until 2011 I had never watched or even remotely cared about Star Wars or Star Trek...Never seen any of the past films or Series...

But in 2011, I watched Star Trek(2009)...and LOVED it...

I then also Really liked Both Into Darkness and Beyond

So I decided to Give Star Wars a try....A just loved and enjoyed TFA and RO....eventually watched The Prequels trilogies and at least somewhat liked them...but I just can not get motivated At ALL to watch any of the OLD Star Wars and Star Trek Movies/Series...

I know I cant be considered A Star Wars fan Without seeing the Original Trilogy...

But I'll tell you what...I'm hooked on this new Generation of Star Wars and Trek films...

So far I've Liked To Loved all 6 Star Wars and Star Trek Films released from 2009 to current....

and I'm greatly looking forward to All New Star Wars and Trek films

My Rating+Ranking for them are so far-
1.Star Trek(2009)-10/10
2.The Force Awakens-8.5/10
3.Rogue One-9/10
4.Into Darkness-8.5/10
5.Beyond-8/10
6.The Last Jedi-8/10

I'm hoping Solo Will be good

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[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Bill Brown, how old are you?

You cannot bring yourself to watch the massive bulk of old Star Trek series/movies and the Star Wars Original Trilogy, yet you like what came after? You like the crap instead of the good?

Do yourself a favour and watch the SW OT, the reason Star Wars became the icon it is today. You say you've already seen the Prequels, so the Special Editions should suffice, as they didn't dilute the OT much. Unfortunately, the original films as shown in cinemas from 1977 to 1983 are long-gone, except on VHS. I wouldn't rely too much on fan edits.

The Star Trek and Star Wars you mention is all modern hyper-action or remake CRAP, and I much prefer the stuff that came out before. Rogue One was the pleasant exception, but you've really got to see the Original Trilogy to see what threat the Death Star in Rogue One really was, for example.

As for Star Trek movies, I'd say start with Wrath of Khan, which is the second of the first ten movies but the very first Star Trek movie is rather cerebral and very much like 2001: A Space Odyssey, and many people it seems don't really like it. Then, after Khan (this is the original STID), try The Search for Spock to be introduced (properly) to the Klingons and then The Voyage Home, then the Undiscovered Country and finally First Contact with the Next Generation cast. These are the better Trek movies, and there's a famous saying that the odd-numbered Trek movies are worse than the even-numbered ones.

As for the Star Trek series, there's a massive bulk of stuff to see there, but I would start with Season 1 and 2 of The Original Series and then Season 3-7 of Next Generation. DS9 is the space station one but it's great, and Voyager and Enterprise came later but are still mostly OK. But I'd cover the movies first, watching the Star Trek TV series is a tall order indeed.

Honestly, do yourself a favour an acquaint yourself with some of the old stuff. It's better than what you've seen, except maybe in special effects.

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[–] billbrown7071 (3195) 7 years ago

Bill Brown, how old are you?

^^^

I'm 32 ....

You cannot bring yourself to watch the massive bulk of old Star Trek series/movies and the Star Wars Original Trilogy, yet you like what came after? You like the crap instead of the good?

^^^

It really has nothing to do with NOT watching Star Wars...I'm just not a fan of OLDER movies....I cant get motivated to watch older movies

I have seen some, I've seen Jaws, Back to the future, some 80s actions movies

but I havent seen movies like The Godfather movies or Star Wars

Believe it or Not, I'm completely honest about my taste in films, I'm an action/special effects type of person...I really like The Big Action Blockbusters(I even enjoy the Transformers films)..The Outdated Special Effects in Star Wars is the main reason I cant get motivated to watch them..With that being said, I take nothing away from the movies, I realize they are iconic and are considered ALL TIME great films and are certainly better than the new Star Wars films being made...But for Me Personally...These new Star Wars and Trek films are more suited FOR ME.Because of The Way they are made, I just like good action and Specifically Effects.

I will at some point watch Star Wars 1 through 3...especially if they comes on netflick any time soon...and I'll probably fall in love with them and feel like an idiot for not watch them sooner...

that recently happened With me With The Lord Of The Rings Trilogy...

I spent 15 years intentionally avoiding TLOTR Trilogy...never having any desire to watch a second of them

3 years ago I watched them, and can honestly say it was the single greatest experience I ever had watching Films...I was simply Blown away, have since watch The Trilogy 10 times and consider it to be The Greatest Trilogy ever, 3 of The Great Individual Movies ever, and One of the greatest achievements in Film.

It wouldnt surprise me one bit if when I eventually watch SW 1-3 if have a Great experience and LOVE them...unfortunately right now, I just cant get motivated, I had a hard enough time getting motivated to watch the Prequels, the only reason I even tried was because I knew they at least had good/Updated special effects(again I know not the best way to judge films) but for me, Its what I enjoy

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[–] tom8 (3119) 7 years ago

They should Stop Forcing Real World Politics Into Star Wars.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVpUggGXPVc

like in rouge one..... the rebels attacking that imperial patrol in jedha was disgusting.
It was clearly a nod to insurgents fighting government and/or western forces in the middle east/Chechnya

Saw Gerrera is clearly and way too obvious Che Guevara.

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[–] Keelai (36128) 7 years ago

I've watched all the Star Wars movies. There are many problems with Last Jedi. To name a few:

*It doesn't answer most of the questions that were raised in Force Awakens.
*It doesn't make sense. For instance, Luke left a map to be found in TFA, but then tells Rey he didn't want to be found in TLJ.
*It rehashes the story and even whole scenes from the original trilogy - poorly.
*Luke's complete personality change and odd behavior is inconsistent with the originals and doesn't make sense. A hopeful optimist becomes a grouch? Not the Jedi way. And was going to murder his sleeping nephew who his sister and best friend entrusted him?
*Jedi training, behavior, lore, etc. is inconsistent with the originals and prequels.
*Disney movies are not adding anything new. Just rehashing the original movies, story, characters, design.
*The script is just bad. Jokes at inappropriate times. No character development. How did an entire government of a billion planets, the New Republic fall when no time passed between the ending of TFA and the beginning of TLJ? They had no infrastructure, local governments, army, police? It's just stupid writing.

SW under Lucas had strong female characters and diversity especially with the prequels. The problem is that Kennedy thinks destroying the white male heroes uplifts the female ones. Why destroy Luke and Han?

The original Star Wars trilogy is fun to watch. Force Awakens captures that. But the originals have more story, chemistry between characters, better music and character development. Most people consider The Empire Strikes Back to be the best. Han and Leia. Vader. Luke and Yoda. C3PO and R2D2. I hope you watch the originals (Despecialised version is best) eventually because they're all amazing in them.

BTW, I'm a Trekkie too.

1.Star Trek(2009)-10/10
2.The Force Awakens-9/10
3.Rogue One-8/10
4.Into Darkness-8/10
5.Beyond-2/10 - filmed too dark
6.The Last Jedi-The worst movie I've seen in my life.

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[–] OldG (853) 7 years ago

*Luke's complete personality change and odd behavior is inconsistent with the originals and doesn't make sense. A hopeful optimist becomes a grouch? Not the Jedi way. And was going to murder his sleeping nephew who his sister and best friend entrusted him?

Keelai I never understod the above criticism... Why can't he change? It has been 30 years and it is all happening again... the Empire is back (just with a new name), his Nephew has joined the dark side etc. Luke has failed and that would make most people bitter... It is not uncommom that people become more bitter with age;-)

I agree that it was not the Luke I was expecting/hoping to see... But that doesn't mean that the change cannot be accepted it would actually be weird if he was still optimistic with everything that has happened... And in regards to killing Kylo... he explained it was a moment of madness and he didn't go through with it... But if he could see that Kylo's future would only bring death and suffering to the galaxy... Isn't it normal to think of ways to stop that? But he failed and that left he sad and bitter...

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[–] Arghhhh (804) 7 years ago

He can change and in fact he should have changed after 30 years, the problem is in why and how.

* The vast bulk of the 'explanation' for his failures are off screen - we have 3 films showing Luke's transformation from zero to hero and about 30 seconds explaining how he winds up being a crazy hermit.

* It doesn't feel (to many of us) that Luke has been written this way because the writers think it's a good story, they've written him this way to ensure he doesn't take the shine off Rey (who a lot of people dislike as a character).

* Having a character whose defining moment was to refuse to give up on someone unspeakably evil contemplate - even for a moment - murdering his nephew and best friends' son is hard to swallow to say the least.

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[–] OldG (853) 7 years ago

These films are not about Luke even if we wish they should be... They are about kylo and Rey with Poe and Finn as supporting characters... Sure Luke plays a big part in this film but the film is about Rey and Kylo...

Even though it can be hard to swallow we must accept this premise as this was already decided in the TFA so we cannot expect to get a ton of backstory about Luke... And we really do not need it to understand why Luke has become the way he is...

Imagine even though you have tried to change the galaxy for the better evil again prevails... His Nephew has joined the dark side under his teachings (If that is not the ultimate failure I do not know what is)... I would have loved for the whole Kanto Bite story line to have been replaced with more Luke... But that is only because I would like to see more Luke... not because I do not understand what he has become...

I understand it is hard to believe he would kill his nephew (Luke is our childhood hero) but remember he doesn't kill him... And again if you see that Kylo will cause death and darkness throughout the galaxy are you not inclined to act?

Like I said earlier it was not the Luke I was hoping to see... but I do believe the movies explain well enough why he has become who he is...

If Kylo is redeemed in episode 9 I will have a problem with Luke's actions... but I do not believe that is where they are going with the story... But I will not know for sure until episode 9...

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[–] Keelai (36128) 7 years ago

Just a few questions (I have plenty more):

*Why did Luke leave a map in order to be found in TFA, but tell Rey to go away when he is found?
*Jedi are not negative because it literally leads to the darkside of the Force. Luke has been bitter for years so how come he hasn't fallen to the darkside?
*Luke already knew that his nephew was troubled and at risk for falling to the darkside which is why Leia asked Luke to train him. Why then would Luke be surprised that Ren was troubled and could fall to the darkside and try to kill him?
*Why would Luke abandon his twin sister and best friend in their hour of need?
*Why would good Luke's students abandon him and follow evil Ren? That makes no sense since they weren't troubled and had to be good.
*Why wouldn't Luke fight Snoke since it's the job of a Jedi to be the guardians of the Republic and defend and fight for peace and justice". Would he allow his sister to fight alone?
*Balance of the Force didn't mean equal number of light and darkside users. For centuries, there were hundreds of Jedi and only two Sith. Balance of the Force means get rid of the darkside which weakened Jedi users according to Lucas therefore Luke's premise to get rid of the Jedi Order makes no sense and is inconsistent.
* A girl with no training knows more and can beat a Jedi Master?

BTW, I don't have a problem with Luke changing, but it has to be consistent with what he is and his core personality. Luke isn't just a regular person. He's a Jedi! Just making him a depressed grouch is stupid and bad writing. It would've made more sense for him to have fallen to the darkside which happens with Jedi.

The sequel trilogy is part of the Skywalker Saga. If Disney wanted otherwise, they shouldn't call it a sequel trilogy.

I agree with everything that Arghhhh wrote.

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[–] OldG (853) 7 years ago

I feel my opinion covers most of those questions... But let me try again...

I do not feel the map issue has anything to do with my original response... but yes that does not make much sense and they could have covered that quite easily with Rey questioning why there was a map to his whereabouts... If he wanted to be left alone... I guess we agree here...

I will try to address all the other quistions in one answer:
It is quite clearly explained the Luke has turned away from the force wish would also prevent from turning to the dark side... I must admit I do not remember how much Luke was aware of Kylo's feelings before he began to train him... but as a jedi he must have believed he could lead him down the light path... We do not know much about the Knights of Ren but that can still be explained in 9 so I cannot be to critical before I have seen episode 9... Of course it is hard to accept that Luke has given up and left everybody behind... but you have to have some kind of conflict in the story (would I have loved Luke to be this super jedi... yes but where would that story go?) JJ and Ryan chose a different path for Luke... I believe you explain the force very simplistic if just being negative turns you to the dark side it must be your actions that determine destiny... And maybe that is exactly why Luke left and turned away from the force, maybe he was afraid where he might end up it he stayed... With all that have happen since we last saw Luke I do not understand why it is hard to believe he has become disillusioned... Luke has given up on the jedi order... I do not believe he is worried with creating balance in the sense you refer to...

I do not know what you mean with your last *

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[–] Keelai (36128) 7 years ago

"I do not know what you mean with your last * "
The prequel and original trilogy are The Skywalker saga. The OT focused on Luke. The PT focused on his father. The ST was supposed to focus on a grandchild. Complete the saga properly or just start a different trilogy with Rey and company.

"I do not remember how much Luke was aware of Kylo's feelings before he began to train him."
The answer is in Force Awakens when Leia said she asked Luke to train Kylo because he was beginning to go down a wrong path. Luke shouldn't have been surprised that Kylo was conflicted since that was the reason Kylo was with him.

I was pointing out that Johnson doesn't appear to know basic things about Star Wars like the definition of Balance in the Force and who can become a Jedi. In an interview, he said he wanted to show that anyone could become a Jedi, not only a Skywalker. That's common knowledge. The Skywalkers were just more powerful in the Force. There were several other contradictions throughout the film. I'm not buying that Johnson was a fan because he doesn't appear to know basic things about SW.

"Luke I do not understand why it is hard to believe he has become disillusioned... Luke has given up on the jedi order"

Actually Luke said the reason why he didn't want the Jedi around anymore is because it means there has to be an equally powerful evil counterpart. If you get rid of the Jedi, then you get rid of the Sith. That's crap that Johnson made-up and has nothing to do with creating a balance and contradicts SW lore.

Luke also criticized the Jedi Order. Again, their faults were common knowledge and addressed in the PT. Johnson is acting as if he has created a new concept. Luke was actually a new type of Jedi who didn't follow their dogma anyway.

Luke is only one problem with the movie. My main problem was with the script structure and lack of continuity.

Johnson basically had an idea for the movie and didn't care if it contradicted and ignored the seven previous movies

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[–] OldG (853) 7 years ago

You do know Kylo is a Skywalker right?

I feel I am repeating myself but you seem to ignore my answers... Yes Kylo might have been troubled but Luke definitely didn't know to what extent until he began to train him...

Let me point out that I also have several issues with The Last Jedi... My starting comment was referring to you not being able to accept Luke's change of character... Which as I have pointed out that I do...

If you know anything about RJ you would know he is a huge Star Wars fan (even if you do not buy it)... but he chose to take the story in a different direction than you and a lot of other people have a hard time accepting... Like I said I also have problems with certain aspects of the movie primarily the whole Kanto Bite storyline with Finn and Rose and a lot of the humour...

But back to your issues even the prequels contradicted several aspects of the old trilogy... At they were made by Lucas himself... And I do not see where Ryan actually contradicts anything from the previous 7 films... Yeah Luke is not at a place where he is very fond of the Jedi Order... But Rey and Luke did not live during the prequels so Luke will only know what Yoda and Obi Wan told him about the Jedi Order and of course what he have read in the Jedi books... So he expressing his opinion to Rey makes a lot of sense...

Remember it was JJ that put Luke on an island in the middle of nowhere not Ryan... Ryan then had to continue that storyline... and like I said you did not like where he took the story and that is fair enough... but I feel that Luke's journey makes sense if we see what is going on in the galaxy...

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[–] Keelai (36128) 7 years ago

"You do know Kylo is a Skywalker right?"
Yes, but the hero aka protagonist is Rey who supposedly is not a Skywalker.

"I feel I am repeating myself but you seem to ignore my answers"
I'm not ignoring them. I just don't agree.

"Luke definitely didn't know to what extent until he began to train him"
Luke would've known through the Force. If he could sense good in Vader, then sensing evil in Kylo should've been a cakewalk.

"My starting comment was referring to you not being able to accept Luke's change of character."
I don't have a problem with Luke becoming bad like I wrote. I have a problem with the reason and how it was done. I agree with Hamill. Bad writing like the milk scene.

"...even the prequels contradicted several aspects of the old trilogy"
Agreed. But, those were minor contradictions. Johnson is doing major changes and mistakes (which is why I don't believe he's a fan.). There is a Star Wars reference source that writers used in order to avoid contradictions. I don't get the impression Johnson used it. He's also arrogant. He believes SW needs to be fixed by him. Lucas did pretty well keeping it relevant for 40 years.

The Luke storyline isn't the main reason why I dislike the film. Maybe 10%. It's a poorly structured film, too many gimmicks, he put characters in this movie just to have them in it without giving them anything to do like Phasma, Finn and Maz.

"...makes sense if we see what is going on in the galaxy."
New Republic is the government of the galaxy with thousands of planets in TFA, but one attack on 5 planets leave the New Order in control a short time later (by the beginning of TLJ) even though their weapon was destroyed. Bad writing. Pearl Harbor attack didn't destroy the U.S. government.

"Ryan then had to continue that storyline"
Why? Ryan chose not to continue anything else of Abrams.

I'll predict that Kennedy and Johnson will be fired by Disney after Solo and Episode 9 disappoints.

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[–] OldG (853) 7 years ago

"Yes, but the hero aka protagonist is Rey who supposedly is not a Skywalker."
Why do the hero have to be a Skywalker? A Skywalker is deeply involved in the story that is enough for me... Still we don't even know if what Kylo was telling Rey was true...

"I'm not ignoring them. I just don't agree"
Fair enough we do not have to agree:-)

"Luke would've known through the Force. If he could sense good in Vader, then sensing evil in Kylo should've been a cakewalk."
Luke is not perfect... Palpatine lived among the Jedi and they couldn't figure he was Sith before it was to late. I am pretty sure Snoke could have played a part here.

"I don't have a problem with Luke becoming bad like I wrote. I have a problem with the reason and how it was done. I agree with Hamill. Bad writing like the milk scene."
The milk scene was awful and as I he said before I have several issues with The Last Jedi Luke is just not one of them.

"Johnson is doing major changes and mistakes (which is why I don't believe he's a fan.)."
I do not believe they were that major... but to you they were and I cannot change that...

"too many gimmicks, he put characters in this movie just to have them in it without giving them anything to do like Phasma, Finn and Maz."
Agreed

"New Republic is the government of the galaxy with thousands of planets in TFA, but one attack on 5 planets leave the New Order in control a short time later (by the beginning of TLJ) even though their weapon was destroyed. Bad writing. Pearl Harbor attack didn't destroy the U.S. government."
So you are comparing Pearl Harbor to wiping out the entire government of the new repuiblic and most of its army?

"Why? Ryan chose not to continue anything else of Abrams."
Really... it comments pretty heavily on Rey parents even though you might not have gotten the answers you were hoping for... I do not understand all the people that are saying Ryan ignored everything JJ did? Ryan might have taken the story arcs where you would have gone...

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[–] OldG (853) 7 years ago

But try to tell me where he contradicts story arcs from TFA?

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[–] Keelai (36128) 7 years ago

TLJ weakens TFA. A few contradictions and unanswered questions.

*Luke left a map in TFA to be found because he didn't want to be found in TLJ.
*Maz to Han, "Who is the girl?" camera breaks away implying Han knows and will tell her. Kylo, "Your parents were nobody." So what did Han tell Maz?
*Rey could barely fight with a lightsaber and struggles with it in TFA. There is no time lapse between both movies, yet in TLJ she uses a lightsaber expertly and beats everyone.
*How is Phasma still alive after the planet blew-up and she was locked away?
*How does Rey know the Force and how to use it if her parents are nobody?
*When did Rey learn Wookie?
*Why did R2D2 suddenly turn on?
*What happened to C3P0's red arm?
*Why did Leia hug Rey, a perfect stranger?
* Rey grew-up on a desert planet? Where did she learn how to swim? And so well?
*Who trained Snoke? Who are the Knights of Ren?
*Why would acquaintance Rey get to keep the Millennium Falcon instead of longtime friend Chewie?
*I already mentioned government control in prior post.

Most fans actually want a good story and characters, not just unanswered questions. These questions were supposed to be answered in TLJ, but weren't. I'm not expecting any in episode 9 since Abrams usually doesn't answer them. He didn't with Lost.

"Ryan might have taken the story arcs where you would have gone..." Never.

"Fair enough we do not have to agree:-)"
I agree with that. I was curious to know the opinion of someone who liked the movie.

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[–] OldG (853) 7 years ago

I am not talking about things that weakens TFA (that is a matter of opinion)... I was asking about contradictions...

'*Luke left a map in TFA to be found because he didn't want to be found in TLJ.'
I will accept this... as I explained earlier I felt it could have been explained rather easily but they didn't...

'*Maz to Han, "Who is the girl?" camera breaks away implying Han knows and will tell her. Kylo, "Your parents were nobody." So what did Han tell Maz?'
This is not a contradiction... We all know JJ is the master of presensting stuff he doesn't wanna explain;-) and all we know is what Kylo told Rey (like I said he could be lying) and even if he isn't it is not a contradiction... Maz could just be sensing Rey's connection to the force...

'*Rey could barely fight with a lightsaber and struggles with it in TFA. There is no time lapse between both movies, yet in TLJ she uses a lightsaber expertly and beats everyone.'
We already saw her fighting with he staff so she is definitely no rookie in regards to combat and who does she defeat other than the royal guards at which point she had been training with Luke... and again it is not a contradiction she is just better at fighting that you believe she should be (opinion not contradiction)

'*How is Phasma still alive after the planet blew-up and she was locked away?'
We never even saw her being locked away... they just talked about it... and a lot of people got away... This is just classic JJ which you cannot blame Ryan for...

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[–] Keelai (36128) 7 years ago

You're trying to limit my dislike for the movie to Luke and contradictions. Nope. My dislike for the movie isn't limited to two things.

Unanswered questions. Stating that's how Abrams does things isn't an acceptable reason. Abrams in an interview said he never had answers to questions/mysteries for Lost because he thought it would be canceled in the first season. What a hack he is! He's too stupid, lazy and uncreative to finish writing a script.

"...Maz to Han, "Who is the girl?..."
It is a contradiction because it was obvious foreshadowing which became a dead-end since it wasn't answered. That scene strongly implied Rey was somebody and Han knew.

"We never even saw her being locked away... they just talked about it."
They talked about it therefore it happened. You're rewriting the movie which is something that happens when a script is weak.

"We already saw her fighting with he staff..."
Knowing how to fight or fighting with a staff is very different from fighting with a lightsaber. The reason why regular folks don't use them is because of the specific skill it takes to wield one.

"This is just classic JJ which you cannot blame Ryan for..."
Johnson put Phasma in his movie. I blame him. Leave her dead since he did nothing with her anyway.

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[–] OldG (853) 7 years ago

You can dislike like the movie all you want... just try and make some sense...

Those are not contradictions (you just assumed something that didn't happen)... You need to look up the meaning of contradiction

Let us end on a positive note... I agree taht the whole Phasma character have been a complete waste of time in both movies...

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[–] OldG (853) 7 years ago

'*How does Rey know the Force and how to use it if her parents are nobody?'
Why does her parents need to be somebody for Rey being able to be force sensetive. That has never been established???

There are no contradictions here:
*When did Rey learn Wookie?
*Why did R2D2 suddenly turn on?
*What happened to C3P0's red arm?
*Why did Leia hug Rey, a perfect stranger?
* Rey grew-up on a desert planet? Where did she learn how to swim? And so well?
*Who trained Snoke? Who are the Knights of Ren?
*Why would acquaintance Rey get to keep the Millennium Falcon instead of longtime friend Chewie?
*I already mentioned government control in prior post.

Just stuff you feel should have been handled differently...

A contradiction would be: Batman tells Superman I cannot fly... in the next movie without explanation Batman flies around like Superman

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[–] Keelai (36128) 7 years ago

There is a huge difference between being Force sensitive and so powerful that you can beat a Jedi master and a trained Knight of Ren plus do all those things she did in Force Awakens.

I emphasis that she beat two Skywalkers which is major. Remember that family is especially strong in the Force. Anakin was more powerful than Yoda! How is a nobody more powerful than a Skywalker?

Again, my problem with the movie isn't limited to contradictions. Undeveloped characters, over-reliance on gotcha moments, bad scenes like Leia Poppins, boring in places, uncreative design work (props, buildings, etcs), pointless scenes, like General Holdo allowing people to die before committing suicide (what's wrong with auto pilot?), I notice that Johnson has a problem with showing strong emotions in this movie. Whenever a scene gets too serious he turns it into a joke or cuts away.

It's a sequel therefore it needs to have continuity not only to TFA, but to the PT and OT also.

There are degrees of fans: casual to uber fan and a range in-between. A poster pointed out that casual fans like the movie more than the semi-uber and uber fans. I've noticed that with co-workers. A uber fan will know more details so will see more contradictions. My coworker loved it, but then asked me who Luke was. LOL.

I know this film has destroyed the enthusiasm for the movies for many super fans which is a stupid way for Disney to go. Good script, FX and characters are important. Solo looks like crap too. I think Kennedy and Johnson will be fired.

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[–] OldG (853) 7 years ago

I started this whole argument commenting on your view on Luke... So if you could stick to that... we might be able to have a decent debate...

You do spend an awful lot of time commenting on something you have lost your passion for;-)

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[–] Keelai (36128) 7 years ago

"Why do the hero have to be a Skywalker?"
Because it's the Skywalker saga.

"Palpatine lived among the Jedi and they couldn't figure he was Sith before it was to late."
Because there was no balance in the Force therefore the Jedi had lost their ability to use it including detecting the Sith.

"So you are comparing Pearl Harbor to wiping out the entire government of the new republic and most of its army?"
In other words, one attack is NOT going to topple an entire government. A government has infrastructure, soldiers, local law enforcement, local governments, etc. throughout their jurisdiction to continue fighting. Johnson had the entire Republic fall after only one attack. Bad writing.

My main problem with The Last Jedi is the horrible writing. What Johnson repeatedly does is decide he has a specific result in mind, but he doesn't take the care to reach that result in a logical way.
*For instance, he wanted the First Order in control, but there's no logical explanation as to how that happened.
*He wanted a romance so Rose falls in love with Finn after knowing him for a day.
*Fin and Rose need a code breaker who is coincidentally in the same prison cell they're in who coincidentally can breakout any time but coincidentally doesn't until after they show up.
*He wanted a depressed Luke even though it contradicts 40 years of Jedi and Luke storytelling.
*He wanted a powerful Rey who doesn't need training even though it contradicts SW lore which says Jedi do need training.

One other thing about depressed Luke that bothers me has to do with George Lucas. He purposely created Luke to be a hero for a younger generation. I think it was disrespectful to destroy what Lucas created. Just another reason why I don't consider Johnson a fan.

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[–] OldG (853) 7 years ago

Keelai you do not make much sense... The prequals was about Anakin turning to the dark side from hero to villain... So Lucas has already made a Star Wars (saga) film where a Skywalker is the baddie...

Again you expect Luke to have all these abilities because he is Luke... that is not your call to make... your opinion is not fact... I understand by now you do not like Luke in The Last Jedi;-)

I do not understand how you keep ignoring that we have 30 years where we haven't followed Luke... (You might have read some books) but I am only talking about the films... And of course he can change a lot can happen in 30 years and a lot have happened...

The First Order builds the most powerfull weapon ever seen in the galaxy in TFA and you still questions their ability to take control of the galaxy???

I have already commented on the Finn and Rose storyline... and I do not know why you keep bringing it up... I have already stated that I hate that part of the movie as much as you...

Like I again have said earlier Luke was our childhood hero and he goes out swinging saving the new 'Rebels' even though it was tough to see him go... He went out as a hero... at least to me...

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[–] Keelai (36128) 7 years ago

"So Lucas has already made a Star Wars (saga) film where a Skywalker is the baddie"
That's not true. Lucas made it very clear that Anakin was a good person which he is in the first two prequel movies. Only during the third movie do we see him turn and find out why. Lucas said that Vader was not meant to be just a villain when people complained after he redeemed himself later. I actually like complicated characters. I like Kylo because he's conflicted instead of just being bad.

BTW, even though Vader was a great villain I enjoyed, I had no problem with his becoming good in the end because the good writing supported the change unlike Luke's change to depressing grouch. Luke is a depressed grouch because Johnson wrote it that way.

"Again you expect Luke to have all these abilities because he is Luke"
Luke has abilities because he's a Jedi. I think it was tacky for Johnson to destroy Lucas intent as he had stated in numerous interviews

"I do not understand how you keep ignoring that we have 30 years where we haven't followed Luke."
Speak for yourself. Many of us followed him in the EU (which does count) in the books and games which were written better than this garbage movie.

I don't think you understand that the reason why Luke and Han were destroyed was a monetary reason by Disney to get people to accept new characters going forward by destroying the old characters. I prefer my movies made by artists, not accountants.

"The First Order builds the most powerfull weapon ever seen in the galaxy in TFA and you still questions their ability to take control of the galaxy???"
In a day? Or week? With no opposition in the Republic? BTW, their weapon was destroyed.

"...Luke was our childhood hero..."
Not mine since he didn't exist in my childhood. BTW, my favorite OT SW character was Leia, not Luke. She was among the first strong females in movies which I thought was innovative and interesting.

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[–] OldG (853) 7 years ago

"That's not true. Lucas made it very clear that Anakin was a good person which he is in the first two prequel movies. Only during the third movie do we see him turn and find out why"
Yes it is true... you even say it youself...

So you are a Lucas fanboy/fangirl now it makes so much more sense... how is Vader redeeming himself good writing? It is exactly them same as you what accuse Johnson of doing (Vader redeems himself because Lucas wrote it like that... right? and how is that even an argument)

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[–] OldG (853) 7 years ago

"Speak for yourself. Many of us followed him in the EU (which does count) in the books and games which were written better than this garbage movie."

No the EU doesn't count so I guess that explains why you fail to come up with any valid arguments...

You cannot base how Luke should be on some novel you read 10 years ago...

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[–] Keelai (36128) 7 years ago

consolidating into one post:

Hamill complained again today. He said there was enough time for the milking scene, but not enough time for Luke to show emotion re: his best friend's death.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xnt9IOthoI
Read the comments. Funny comment by "George Lucas".

Actually the EU does count and aspects of it have been incorporated into the movies by Lucas

I still have a passion for Lucas SW. It's Disney SW that sux. Enjoy your Disney crap. I'll stick to Lucas.

Do you agree that there is an agenda to make females look strong at the males’ expense?:

*Poe is slapped in the face and demoted by Leia after messing up a mission. He is only redeemed after learning a lesson taught thru Leia's guidance.
*Rey has to save the day because Luke is in a funk. Luke only helps because of Rey.
*Coward Finn has to be stopped from running away by Rose.
*Loser Han abandons his duties as father and husband in order to return to crime while noble Leia continues to defend the galaxy.

*The rest of the males are evil: Snoke, Kylo and Hux. The females are good, Holdo, Rose, Leia, Rey Exception is Phasma

"So Lucas has already made a Star Wars (saga) film where a Skywalker is the baddie""
No, because Anakin was still good in the first 2 movies and most of the third, therefore the protagonist was good, not evil. In the OT, Luke is the protagonist.

Actually, a SW underlying theme is religious and touches on hope and redemption. That Rian garbage came out of the blue.

I don’t know what your problem is with Lucas, but he is a visionary and innovator who revolutionized movies in general and Sci-Fi specifically. He also created 3d animation aka: Pixar and technologies like Dolby sound system and photoshop etc.

I can’t believe you think Rian, the Hack's writing is good. LOL.

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[–] OldG (853) 7 years ago

I have no problems with Lucas I love the first Star Wars trilogi... But the prequals were awful... The only thing good thing in the prequals was Plapatine and most of the light saber fights...

Anakin in the prequals almost destroyed the legend that is Vader... That love story with Padme has to be one of the worst love stories ever written... And overall he is just a whiny annoying character... You really hoped that Obi Wan just would have ended him on Mustafar...

No doubt that Lucas was a visionary and like I said I have enjoyed a lot of his work...

Again you do read what I write... Where do I praise Rian's writing? The only thing I questioned was you not understanding Luke's development... and apparently because you have read some novel 10 years ago where Luke was still happy...

Yeah they use stuff from the EU but they have a right to pick and chose... you don't... If you prefer the old novels then read those and stop watching the movies...

I know you will not accept it but in the Revenge of the Sith... Your Hero turns evil and kills children... what a hero???

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[–] Keelai (36128) 7 years ago

"... Your Hero turns evil and kills children..."

It's much more complicated and interesting. Lucas wanted to show a basically good Anakin which he does in 2 3/4 movies. He is manipulated from childhood by Palp. That one moment, aka: one decision, when Annie chooses to help Palp over Mace becomes his undoing. (In reality, one bad decision can ruin a person's entire life) "What have I done?" His mistake; his regret; but it's too late to turn back. He's resigned. Later, Palp tells him he killed Padme which completes his resignation and dooms him to his horrible fate.

Only when Luke comes to save him is there hope. "It's too late for me, son". Luke doesn't believe it and won't give up.

Now compare that to the crappy simplistic Snoke and Kylo writing.

"The only thing I questioned was you not understanding Luke's development"

That's the point! There is no REALISTIC development. Make Luke grouchy, then kill him because he's too popular and Kennedy believes fans won't otherwise accept Rey and Kylo. Are you aware that director Trevorrow was fired because he wanted Luke to live for his movie?

I agree that Lucas' PT direction was problematic, still there was plenty I enjoyed:

*subplot: How a democracy becomes a tyranny
*costumes esp. Queen, Jedi
*music
*Jedi Order
*cinematography: Naboo; Coruscant; Anakin leading soldiers into temple
*fights: Obi-wan vs Jango on Kamino & space; Maul vs Jedi
*characters: Obi-wan, Qui-gon, Mace, Jango, Maul, Palpatine, Padme, Anakin..
*concept art: esp. lightsaber designs,
*creativity & originality - new story concepts - not rehash like sequels
*visually interesting

In re: to Jarjar - He's not annoying in the well received novelization. Lucas wanted to show that everyone can be useful. Nice moral lesson. Overdone in movie, though.

I'm semi-boycott Disney SW. No DVDs & products. No multiple views re: movies. I'm in wait-see mode re: Solo & 9.

Last EU I saw was SW:Rebels a few months ago with 1 more season to go. More to read/see

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[–] OldG (853) 7 years ago

I believe you are seeing ghosts everywhere... becuase you dislike the movie...

I am pretty you have no idea why Trevorrow was fired... but you heard that rumor somewhere and it fits your agenda...

Anyway it is not Treverrow's call because RJ was making 8 not him...

You keep going on and on about Luke's development not being realistic... but we have already been through that...

Can we at least agree it is a matter of opinion... I had no problems with Luke's development you do... let us just leave it at that...

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[–] Keelai (36128) 7 years ago

Offical Star Wars statement on their website re: Colin Trevorrow's firing:

"Lucasfilm and Colin Trevorrow have mutually chosen to part ways on Star Wars: Episode IX. Colin has been a wonderful collaborator throughout the development process but we have all come to the conclusion that our visions for the project differ. We wish Colin the best and will be sharing more information about the film soon."

What was his vision?

Trevorrow's 2016 ET interview re: giving Hamill and Fisher a larger role in his movie:
“They are icons, but they're also people that have suffered tremendous loss and challenge over the course of all these films. [Episode IX] is something that needs to honor a story that's been told over a period of 40 years. I don't want to ignore any of it, and I respect all of it. It's something I think the fan base is going to embrace.”

re: Rey's parents:
“We're going to make sure that that answer is deeply and profoundly satisfying. Rey is a character that is important in this universe, not just in the context of The Force Awakens, but in the entire galaxy. She deserves it. We'll make sure that that answer is something that feels like it was something that happened a long time ago, far away, and we're just telling you what happened.”

"“What's interesting is I'm not creating a host of new characters. I have a lot of characters that people really love that we're going to make sure are all honored. No one's going to be left behind.”

Hamill said he had discussions with Trevorrow and were on the same page re: Luke.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q35l3Vxca4

Not difficult to figure it out.

"Can we at least agree it is a matter of opinion"
Agreed. A movie's enjoyment like all art is subjective. The chat's been interesting.

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[–] OldG (853) 7 years ago

You might very well be right... but that official statement could mean so many things and basically just sound like a standard statement when a person is let go...

My biggest problem with your statement is that Luke will still probably be in 9... so he is still there?

And yes it was probably always the plan to shift the focus from the old characters to the new ones... But doesn't that make sense as they are getting old (We already lost Carrie and Harrison probably only returned if they promised to kill him).

And we can still get a resolution to Rey parents (Not that I need one)... We still do not know if Kylo was tellng the truth... And it you read what Treverrow said I might never have been the plan reveal that in 8 as it sounds like Treverrow had plans for that in 9 which can still happen...

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[–] Keelai (36128) 7 years ago

Hamill went on record to say he doesn't care if he's in the movie or not. Meanwhile, Disney is making a big deal about Yoda being in the next movie. Nothing about Luke.

Perhaps they're preparing the fans for no Luke while promoting Yoda to replace him?

"...so he is still there?"
In Trevorrow's vision, Luke has a much larger role and is honored as a hero. In Kennedy's vision, Luke has a tiny cameo and is no hero to avoid upstaging Rey. Creative differences.

"it was probably always the plan to shift the focus from the old characters to the new ones."

That's fine. The problem is how they went about it. A Trekkie made an excellent point. They replaced the original characters (Shatner, Nimoy, etc) with The Next Generation, but the original characters remained heroes and most remained alive and even made future cameos.

Meanwhile, Kennedy is destroying the original characters' heroism and killing them off because she doesn't believe fans will otherwise accept the new ones.

"Treverrow had plans for that in 9 which can still happen..."

Luke and Leia are dead. Not possible.

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[–] OldG (853) 7 years ago

Keelai there are so many assumptions in your post... that it is hard to take it serious...

You make it sound like you read Trevorrow's script for episode 9 and your hate for The Last Jedi have some how convinced you that Treverrow were going to make the perfect Star Wars film...

And calm down Luke will be in episode 9... and I do not understand your view that Luke did not go out like a hero... he gave his life so Rey & co. could get away...

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[–] Keelai (36128) 7 years ago

No assumptions. Here's Treverrow's interview:
http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/colin-trevorrow-wants-bigger-roles-these-two-star-wars-characters-episode-ix

"...convinced you that Treverrow were going to make the perfect Star Wars film."
Nonsense. Disney SW is mediocrity and ripping off Lucas' ideas but doing them horribly. This video speaks truth comparing Lucas and Disney.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lgqNI36usE

R.I.P. SW

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[–] TexasJack (12516) 7 years ago

It seems like Treverrow had the right sensibilities toward the SW universe. It is just so incredibly off-putting to realize that there isn’t a master plan; there was never a deeper story being advanced by each of the episodes. They’re just making it up as they go, and to disasterous effect.

Lucas had many faults, but he never forgot for a minute that he was a storyteller above all else.

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[–] Keelai (36128) 7 years ago

Lucas was also an exceptional art director. His movies were amazing visually with costume design, FX, lightsaber concept, aliens, props, etc.

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[–] Arghhhh (804) 7 years ago

I'd almost respect their approach to a $4Billion asset of 'Fuck it, let's make it up as we go!' if it hadn't resulted in such deeply awful movies.

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[–] Frogarama (12942) 7 years ago

Technically, Lucas put Luke on that island, it's one of the story elements of his that stuck around, including a primary female character who comes to learn the Jedi ways from him, renamed to Rey of course. I think it was Kira when Lucas was doing it.

But they were going to come to Luke much earlier in episode 7 most likely. I doubt he was "lost" like the was in the movie.

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[–] Keelai (36128) 7 years ago

Abrams or Johnson are either trying to blame Lucas for this mess or trying to get support from fans by mentioning him. Don't buy it.

Disney didn't want Lucas' ideas and it's obvious that he thought they would use them. He was very upset when he called them white slavers.

Decades ago, either Lucas or Hamill (maybe both in different interviews) said that Luke would be the old wise Jedi master (like Obi-wan) training a younger person. This mess of a movie has nothing to do with that vision and Hamill has made that repeatedly clear. Rey already came to the island knowing everything and even beat Luke so obviously she didn't need to be trained.

Taking an island location and one general concept while ignoring 98% of Lucas' other ideas doesn't mean Lucas is responsible. He would've moved the story forward instead of recycling the OT, been more creative visually and kept Luke a hero since he wanted young people to have heroes.

Since Lucas is such a control freak and would've wanted to give approval, I'm pretty sure his vision for Luke, Leia and Han exists in the novels, The Thrawn Trilogy. They're still canon for me.

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[–] Arghhhh (804) 7 years ago

"Decades ago, either Lucas or Hamill (maybe both in different interviews) said that Luke would be the old wise Jedi master (like Obi-wan) training a younger person. This mess of a movie has nothing to do with that vision and Hamill has made that repeatedly clear. "

Yeah - part VI was called 'Return of the Jedi' not 'The brief reappearance of the Jedi before they all die/turn evil/get depressed'.

The sequels are a fucking joke.

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[–] Keelai (36128) 7 years ago

It bothers me that Johnson, Kennedy and Disney don't admit they're a joke. If they don't know there's a problem, than they won't change it. Case in point, allowing hack Johnson to do a trilogy can only further destroy SW.

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[–] Frogarama (12942) 7 years ago

I hope you watch the originals (Despecialised version is best)

Other than Empire being the best, I think it's also the only movie that benefitted from its Special Edition. The only sore thumbs are the few "extremely CGI" Bespin flying scenes.

But I love the windows in Cloud City, and most of the rest was just technical upgrades, fixing minor issues like the transparency of the snowspeeder cockpits.

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[–] SyphiliticHobbit (367) 7 years ago

Don't agree. It was very and easy to show the Wampa. When you only hear it it is a MILLION TIMES MORE TERRIFYING. Now it's meh. That's just one example.

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[–] Wesley93 (164) 7 years ago

1. There was great build-up around the characters Rey and Snoke. We thought Rey was going to have an important heritage that served as the potential plot twist of this movie. When she ended up being the daughter of nobodies, it was frustrating. Also, we thought Snoke was going to have an amazing and shocking back-story that made his presence even more exciting in this film and Episode 9. This anticipation was dashed to pieces when he was suddenly killed in the middle of the Last Jedi with no background.
2. After years without seeing Luke, I was hoping I would get to see him leave that island on Ach-To and fight either Snoke or Kylo Ren with his green lightsaber. Not only does he not even really fight anyone, since he is using astral projection in his final scene, he even has the wrong lightsaber when he's projecting himself.
3. There was too much political propaganda about income inequality and animal rights in this film. I felt like the scene on the casino planet was promoting rioting, as well as pushing the "rich people are evil" narrative.
4. The feminist suplot about Holdo withdolding information from Poe served not to empower women, but to belittle men.
5. This should have been Leia's movie, not Luke's. We should have seen Leia explore her force abilities before ultimately confronting her son Ben and then dying a poignant, dignified death. Luke's main story and eventual death should have been pushed back to Episode 9.

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[–] billbrown7071 (3195) 7 years ago

1. There was great build-up around the characters Rey and Snoke. We thought Rey was going to have an important heritage that served as the potential plot twist of this movie. When she ended up being the daughter of nobodies, it was frustrating. Also, we thought Snoke was going to have an amazing and shocking back-story that made his presence even more exciting in this film and Episode 9. This anticipation was dashed to pieces when he was suddenly killed in the middle of the Last Jedi with no background.

^^^

this was a big one for me...again I havent seen the original trilogy So A lot of the other things that have bothered so many didnt bother me...

But I did see the force awakens and was extremely interested and excited about Rey and her Parentage, Also clearly understood it looked like they were setting Snoke up to be A HUGE villain through the trilogy...

I was incredibly disappointed by the reveal of Reys parentage and Disappointed Snoke was KILLED off...

for me, They literally wasted 2 of the best things they set up in TFA...When Ren said "They were nobodies...junkers"...it was almost like someone spit in my face.....Like REALLY?

I've heard/read the directors explanation, that he wanted to do it to Put Rey through the ringer, that shes needs to struggle...

IMO it was a AWFUL and plain Disrespectful creative decision, It really was a slap in the face to audiences, They Laid this Great seed in TFA, made everyone wait and speculate for 2 years, and then gave what is IMO the worst possible answer

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[–] Renovatio (2990) 7 years ago

They didn't like being reminded that they are no longer children.

The reality of Luke growing up to be an old man, filled with regret, hit too close to home as the audience/fans have held onto StarWars, for decades, as a symbol of their eternal inner-child. The Last Jedi shatters this illusion... There is no coming back from this. For a lot of fans this is an almost existential crisis.

All the other criticisms are secondary, because as mediocre a movie as it could be, it would not inspire the kind of anger and 'pain' that is clear in the hundreds of threads about this topic on this discussion board. Have you not noticed them?

I don't understand why we need yet another thread to list and discuss why fans hats this movie... There are loads of existing threads...

I'm going to stop now, lest I be callled a hater of starwars fans again...

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[–] TexasJack (12516) 7 years ago

The same post, every time.

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[–] Renovatio (2990) 7 years ago

It's not my fault they ask the same question, every time 😉

Anyway, how've you been TexasJack?

Is it just me, or has it been a slow week or two movie-wise on this site? It seems not that many interesting discussions on new movies for a while now... I suppose people are busy with the easter break and such as well as the usual post-Oscar lull...

Even Ready Player One didn't have as much discussion as I thought it would. Seen anything good recently?

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[–] TexasJack (12516) 7 years ago

I’m still in mourning for my lost childhood. But otherwise I’m ok, thanks.

I will check out RPO once it’s available digitally. Avengers might actually get me into a theater.

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[–] Renovatio (2990) 7 years ago

Yeah, RP1 is worth checking out, but not Spielberg at his best.

I go to the theatre regularly so it was a no brainer for me. Very little live action in the movie given it's subject matter, so it doesn't have as much of Spielberg's magic as I'd like, but it's still there and still pretty cinematic... I don't think you'll miss out that much if you have a decent system at home.

I'm not sure if I have it in me to watch another Superhero movie in theatre just yet... A bit burnt out by them and I've already seen Black Panther in theatre earlier this year...

Might check out A Quiet Place at the cinema this week with a few friends... Horror is usually fun in public 😎

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[–] SyphiliticHobbit (367) 7 years ago

The notion that because it mirrors real life somehow means it's good narratively is so breathtakingly stupid, so horrifyingly unconscionable of an opinion I can only dismiss it as gibberish. I tried to give you a fair shake but I broke. I can't do it :(

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[–] Renovatio (2990) 7 years ago

I never said it was a good movie; it isn't.

I simply answered the OP's question about why it has angered so many...

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[–] furiousstyles (4392) 7 years ago

stupid humour, boring plot , misuse of Luke's character, doesn't build on the questions asked in TFA, just dismisses them, flying Leia, crappy canto bight, super human abilities, poe can take on a huge star destroyer on his own and take out its guns, pointless end battle , what the hell was the skim speeders going to do ? they didn't even fire a weapon????? lack of OT elements, dog fights, storm trooper battles, star destroyers chasing the resistance , they can build a super weapon but play cat and mouse with resistance ships zzzzzz hated this movie, put me off star wars

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[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

I'm not a die hard fan either, but I like to watch Star Wars and since I'm a movie lover and I read reviews and study the depth of movies, I know a lot of the reasons why fans of Star Wars are hating on this movie so much.

-Lots of plot holes
-Leia randomly being able to fly through space "I'm Marry Poppins ya'll!"
-the side story with Rose and Finn (many think it was unnecessary)
-Rey being able to be an amazing Jedi and really good at fighting with hardly any training (but honestly, I don't see the problem with that, the force is very strong with her.)
-Many fans hate what has been done to the character of Luke. Him being cranky and distant, not wanting to train Rey, hiding and moping around on an island, and then at the very end showing up and then dies
-Hardly getting any information about the villain Snoke, who is very powerful, but randomly gets killed
-Still a lot of unanswered questions about Rey and her background
-the purple haired lady (actually idk if she bothers a lot of people, but I could not stand her!)
-Also idk if this bothered a lot of people, but the part where Luke and Yoda (Randomly showing up) burn the ancient Jedi books really bothered me and my dad. It was an obvious evil message

Tbh I thought the movie was ok, I liked it, but I completely understand why many people aren't liking it

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[–] Hans-Wilhelm (1372) 7 years ago

1. For me the main thing, the most prevalent thing is what they did with the Luke character. He saves his dad from the dark side, he becomes a Jedi and will pass on what he's learned, he's the most optimistic character there is such a build up to them finding him and when they do he's some bitter hermit sucking space cow tits and then dies on the island creating a force ghost projection. They should have never even brought the character back then.

2. Rey's parents. Built up a big mystery as to her lineage only for it to be two nobodies and a total none factor.

3. Snoke. The new "emperor" and poof! He's dead, just like that, no idea who he is how he came into power, where's he been for the last 40 years, how did he come into power etc.

4. Laws of physics errors in the plot. Space is a vacuum. Vehicles in space don't slow down and stop once their engine quits like cares do or airplanes do. Once a spacecraft's forward speed has been created there is nothing to stop it or slow it down unless another force acts on it so running out of fuel wasn't the issue they wanted us to believe.

5. The entire journey to the gambling planet was dumb and a waste to me. They could have cut all of that out.

6. No reason for the purple haired lady to keep the secret and not tell Poe their plan. Dumb side drama created only via horrible communication.

7. Rey practically being on Yoda's level with still roughly ZERO training. Give a good explanation for her doing this or STOP IT!

Those are the main reasons but everything regarding Luke is the main thing for me.

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