MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (2017) Discussion > I like these new ones, but

I like these new ones, but

posted 7 years ago by PeteRose (2893)
18 replies | jump to latest

I have a few issues. Overall, I can't really complain, because they gave me what I wanted: the Star Wars feel, the returning characters, new battles for good and evil that feel like they exist in that same universe. My biggest issue with TFA was Maz Kanata. I kind if hate her. Not because she's Yoda-lite, although she sort of is. It has more to do with her appearance in that film, amongst a bunch of practical creatures that was a total committment to that cantina vibe, stands out in a very awkward way. She's the only character in that scene that is not practical. It's pretty good mo-cap, pretty good cg, but not great. It's a giant eyesore in the movie that nothing else is. Even Snoke, being achieved the same way, seems photo-real because he's masked by the hologram. She didn't even progress the story terribly much. Cut to the Last Jedi, she's even more useless, and just crammed in there because, well, I guess we can't forget about her! There were other useless story tangents, like the entire casino planet, and thusly Finn and Rose serve no purpose in the film except to remind us they exist. I like both of these films a lot, but these things keep eating at me. Also, I don't think Holdo's hair needs to be purple except to make it seem more spacy and futury. Otherwise, I'm glad they're back, and I'm excited to see what happens next. TLJ's biggest strengths are the risks it takes, and pushing the series towards a conclusion that is impossible to predict. JJ hasn't been challenged in a long time, and he will have to make a movie unlike any Star Wars film yet to resolve this beast. He can't can't phone it in and that's exactly the position JJ needs to be in to bring his A game.

[–] GnatNitpicker (52) 7 years ago

That's what I thought too. JJ Abrams can't rely on "mystery boxes" to conclude the story. Hopefully he'll take the story in a direction we haven't seen yet. I think the throne room scene in TLJ was great for more reasons than just the badass Praetorian Guard fight. It flipped the script of the ROTJ throne room scene. Vader was always toying with the idea of overthrowing the Emperor but doesn't (until Luke's in peril). The Emperor even taunted Luke "Strike me down and your journey to the Dark Side will be complete!" Blah, blah, blah. So in the mist of TLJ throne scene, Kylo Ren actually does what Vader wouldn't. Kylo kills Snoke, but this is not the key to his redemption. It's the Emperor's promise. Ben Solo's journey to the Dark Side is now complete. The saddens Rey because for a few moments they were completely in balance. I'd assume that Kylo Ren is gonna more powerful in episode 9, since he's now the defacto Vader/Emperor now of this story. I'm excited to see what comes next.

[–] QueenFanUSA (3379) 7 years ago

So am I!

[–] Arghhhh (804) 7 years ago

I wouldn't say it flipped the script I'd say it's yet another copy - the henchman kills the master after watching the hero be tortured. The 'twist' this time is that it happened in part 2 which while making things more interesting has also severely diminished the story telling opportunities for part 3.

And I think you're being a little naive if you think JJ Abrams won't be using 'mystery boxes'... there's at least 6 more Star Wars films plus a TV series in the works, do you really think he's not going to leave some tantalising 'mysteries' unresolved in order to sucker people back for more?

[–] GnatNitpicker (52) 7 years ago

If he does use "mystery boxes" for the conclusion of a trilogy, well, okay. I'll like it or I won't. There'll be another movie to see the following week. I'll live. Not sure how that makes me "naive."

[–] Arghhhh (804) 7 years ago

I didn't mean it to be critical of you. Call it "overly generous" then.

[–] GnatNitpicker (52) 7 years ago

Fair enough. LoL. No worries.

[–] GnatNitpicker (52) 7 years ago

I see the flipping-of-the-script a tad differently than you. To me, the henchman kills the master after watching the hero be tortured...but instead of turning back to the light, he goes even darker. I loved his "seduction" of Rey when he's begging her to join him. He's playing on her emotions so much, manipulating her like a sex-predator speaks to a child. Saying things like "You're nothing. You have no place in this story. Your parents didn't care about you....but I do." Gives me the creeps. But it was a pretty awesome demonstration of how a Dark-side user might "seduce" someone to the dark side. Almost worked. Rey seemed to teeter a little. (Honestly, I think it would've been really bad-ass if she HAD joined him in the Dark side. Imagine how difficult if would be for Poe, Finn, and company to fight two of the strongest force users to save the galaxy in the 9th movie. But oh well, didn't happen that way.) The twist to me was that Kylo Ren (god I hate that name) fulfilled Darth Vader's dream of overthrowing his master to become Numero Uno in the Galaxy. Despite the nonsensical name, Kylo Ren is my favorite new character from these movies.

Side thought: I got to thinking about Snoke's origin. I wonder if Snoke was somehow involved with Luke and his Training Temple. Or possibly a sleeper-student who joined Luke's new generation of Jedi but somehow clouded his own Dark side. I don't know. Just thinking out loud. Would like to see more flashbacks of Luke's training temple, and of his students, AND who are these former students who became the Knights of Ren? And the wtf are the Knights of Ren? Honestly, I could care less about Snoke's backstory. But this Knights of Ren thing is bugging me.

[–] Threadkiller (3075) 7 years ago

And I think you're being a little naive if you think JJ Abrams won't be using 'mystery boxes'... there's at least 6 more Star Wars films plus a TV series in the works, do you really think he's not going to leave some tantalising 'mysteries' unresolved in order to sucker people back for more?

Definitely this. The only question is will people allow themselves to be suckered by this cheap trick again, giving Jar Jar's vapid, Swiss cheese plot a pass once more just so they can delude themselves with more fan theories to masturbate over for a couple of years in anticipation for the inevitable sequels & spin offs?

[–] tom8 (3119) 7 years ago

for sure, Maz Kanata was a dumb character, guess it was there to appeal to kids, with the big eyes. all the other strange creatures were much better.

purple hair, yeah, guess it appeals to the triggered feminist crowd , all she needed was a pair of black glasses to complete the look

[–] BornSpecial (2) 7 years ago

[deleted]

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

I agree Maz was a waste of space Pete but I think you are being far too liberal on these sequel trilogy movies.

Trite is how I would describe them.

Rogue One was fun though.

[–] PeteRose (2893) 7 years ago

I actually thought Rogue One was the biggest waste of time of all of them. The digital recreations of Tarkin and Leia grossed me out beyond belief, and overall the story needed to be told even less than the sequels. I didn't care what happened to a single character. I felt like Elaine in Seinfeld, talking to the screen, "just stop telling your stupid story about the stupid Death Star plans and die already!" I am definitely giving these new ones a chance, one that maybe others aren't, and JJ is definitely not my guy, although Johnson definitely is. I just know that with as much as I disliked about each of them, I loved quite a bit. I could watch them dozens of times, as opposed to the prequels, that I never want to see again. Fan edits of the prequels can be fun, my favorite is Neon Noir, using footage from AOTC and ROTS only, and swapping all the music for some other stuff, Daft Punk and others, and basically not letting Ani speak more than a few lines here or there. If you cut Anakin and Padme's interactions just right, time her giggles just right, he can actually come across as charming. They are a fun editing excercise, but the theatrical versions are painful.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

you are an idiot. literally everything you said was wrong...

-this had the "star wars feel"? which part? was it the prank call mom joke? the fact literally every tense scene was broken by a joke? or was it the leprauchaun alien on the planet full of mostly just normal humans with different cgi alien races we have never seen before... wtf are you talking about??

-you are mad maz wasnt pratical.... did you even watch TLJ? was there a single practical alien besides those guardians on lukes planet and the alien cow?

-she was useless becuase Rian johnson made her useless. you do know how directing works right? and scripts?

-wait so you just admitted the whole casino side plot was totally useless. literally what? 1/5, 1/4 of the film? but thats okay?

hahaha if by take risks you mean spit in the face of fans and was purposely subtractive in everyway then yes this film took risks...

you are an idiot

[–] PeteRose (2893) 7 years ago

Gee thanks, care to contribute some actual discussion? Is hating things really that fun for you?

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Hahah I literally put my arguements in bullet points so simpletons like you could get it.

And what I get back is “can you actually contribute”

Look I can’t force you to actually read my comment

I’m sorry I disagree with your opinion and triggered you

[–] PeteRose (2893) 7 years ago

I have to return some videotapes

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

[deleted]

[–] PeteRose (2893) 7 years ago

There are a ton of practical creatures in the films, if you don't want to see it, fine. I'm aware how directing and scripts work. You sound like a child.