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by landofree:
Short answers like: "because" and "why not?" or "Why did the character need to be a boy?" are not acceptable. Give me a reasoned answer, if you can. Questions are not answers. Go...
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We have had Anakin /Darth Vader , Obi-wan , Yoda and Luke all males ,strong with the force …it was time to have a female character become strong with the force…
Leia , despite being a Skywalker , never showed to be a force user in the first trilogy.. then out of the blue ,in Star Wars VIII unfortunately she “uses the force” to survive in space for a few seconds ..a cringe worthy moment that we all would prefer to erase from our minds.
We already had a male Skywalker going Sith ..Anakin /Darth Vader …we sure didn’t need another “ Luke” trying to save Kylo Ren/a Skywalker again…that would have been repetitive and boring.
Having an unrelated , female strong with the force who tries to save a Skywalker who has been seduced by the dark side of the force gives a fresh, new ,interesting dynamic to the plot.
It’s only a shame that Rey ‘s numerous abilities come without any training making her a Sue Mary .
I think the issue with this is Rey's gender probably had little to do with being a creative decision and more to do with female leaditis, even though we have already had female leads, female jedi, strong female characters in SW before Rey...so its hard to say she represent a significant tick of the box in any of those fields. Sure you can say we haven't had a female Jedi as the center lead of a SW movie but that is literally splitting hairs at that point, its meaningless to all but the most bias of people. (and if the EU had not been swept away a much richer group of female characters could have been used.)
"creative decision and more to do with female leaditis"
neither. 99% of male heroes could have been just as well have been female. race and gender are in most cases exchangable. only in very few cases it makes sense to chose a specific gender or race and even then hollywood will cast those roles most likely simply with a white, male actor.
In some cases this is very true and in an industry that for many years was supported by largely white countries and an audiences that typically skewed male particularly for its highest grossing films its not entirely surprising it has leaned this way, this is outside of any legit complaints of sexism/racism.
However in the case of Star Wars the director is on record for why this was decided this way..so I am going to go with what the director said. He wanted to have a female lead, it was written towards that idea. To me that is not so much a creative decision as an agenda decision. As you have said in some cases it really doesn't matter what gender or color the character is and Rey certainly could have been this, but its seems it wasn't that. So how does that effect your writing of the character when you force a concept that doesn't have to be? The character could have ended up female, but since he has decided it has to be female. What has that done? Would Rey be less of a Mary Sue type people seem to complain about if the character had been written as essentially gender neutral? I think the worse case of this is Rose, seemingly existing so they can parade an Asian Female in Star Wars while giving her a worthless role with a painfully long unimportant in the end subplot. I think these films are harmed by a agenda before story mindset.
"However in the case of Star Wars the director is on record for why this was decided this way..so I am going to go with what the director said. He wanted to have a female lead, it was written towards that idea. To me that is not so much a creative decision as an agenda decision. "
how so?
"As you have said in some cases it really doesn't matter what gender or color the character is and Rey certainly could have been this, but its seems it wasn't that."
why?
"So how does that effect your writing of the character when you force a concept that doesn't have to be?"
unless she gives birth or at one point her period comes into question: none whatsoever.
what concept that doesn't have to be are you talking about?
"The character could have ended up female, but since he has decided it has to be female. What has that done?"
see above.
"Would Rey be less of a Mary Sue type people seem to complain about if the character had been written as essentially gender neutral?"
not sure what you mean, but anakin was written as a boy and ended up the biggest diva in the star wars universe.
"I think the worse case of this is Rose, seemingly existing so they can parade an Asian Female in Star Wars while giving her a worthless role with a painfully long unimportant in the end subplot."
i liked her. what exactly is your problem with putting a cute curvy asian chick into the film?
"I think these films are harmed by a agenda before story mindset. "
the problem seems to be that you want to the an agenda, where there is none.
by the same logic you could ask why chewie was a wookie. they could have just as good make it a white male dude or a transwomen or a furyan or a robot.
I was going to answer this in more detail but after the silly Asian comment there is no point. She is not better or worse because she is Asian. Perhaps judge her part in the movie and how she was used rather than concentrating solely on her being a “curvy” Asian woman, objectify less.
shareYeah, Rose was wasted and poorly planned.
share"I was going to answer this in more detail but after the silly Asian comment there is no point."
hahaha, yeah, sure.
"Perhaps judge her part in the movie and how she was used"
she was a side character that had her couple of minutes. another case where neither race nor gender matters. the very same way you could be offended that you admiral ackbar was an alien.
"her being a “curvy” Asian woman, objectify less. "
you might wanna look up "objectify".
Lol degrade to the status of a mere object
You said you like her and but not for any in movie reason instead the only value you seem to find in her was she is a curvy Asian woman. She is not a person to you she is a mere object you find pleasing to the eye.
I could very well be wrong about her character arc and inclusion in the film, I don’t deny that possibility. However my opinion of Tran as a person or performer has nothing to do with that. I have not seen her in anything but this. It looks like a big break for her so I would think she would rather be treated honestly about the part and not simply be liked because she is a curvy Asian woman.
In some cases this is very true and in an industry that for many years was supported by largely white countries and an audiences that typically skewed male
Well you have to expect that from an industry that is largely run by white males, and thus tends to cater to white males, whether by circumstance or by intent. share
I agree this has a lot do with what we have seen. Same everywhere that has the same kind of situation. Japan, India,China, South Korea, North America, Europe, Australia. These are the places a great deal of films come from. Thus a lot of white and Asian leads in global cinema, favoring males which even today Is still the probably the largest audience.
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me: "never showed to be a force user in the first trilogy"
landofree: Wrong. Go watch them again. Just because she doesn't float rocks, doesn't mean she didn't use her Force powers.
@Leia and Luke were connected telepathically but we never got to see Leia interested in following her brothers steps.. developing her connection with the Force to become a Jedi…she chose to fight the Empire running the Rebellion . Only in “The Last Jedi “do we see ( unfortunately) for the first time some major Force usage from Leia.
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me: " Luke” trying to save Kylo Ren/a Skywalker again…that would have been repetitive and boring."
landofree: Not necessarily. Saying something like this speaks to the limits of your creativity. Also, the "Episodes" are known as the Skywalker Saga.
@In Disney’s case it would have because they don’t have good writers … despite having replaced Luke with a potentially engaging female character , Star Wars VI turned out to be mostly an uninspiring rehash of Star Wars IV.
Daisy’s character , who supposedly should be the heroine of this third trilogy , has been written so absurdly , that she has rightfully become a thorn in the side for many fans .
Furthermore .. the subplot in Star Wars VIII is silly …so much wasted screen time which could have been used better to flesh out realistically Rey’s journey of understanding and embracement of the Force…something that was not done in Star Wars VI.
Kylo Ren IS a Skywalker …no need that the other main character that “saves “ or “defeats” him has to be yet another male Skywalker .
A WELL written main female character strong with the Force would have been a great addition to the Saga and an engaging counterpart to Kylo Ren , a Skywalker lost to the dark side…
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me: " a female strong with the force who tries to save a Skywalker "
landofree: Still doesn't answer why the story "needs" her to be female.
@There has been a lot of pressure from different social groups/movements “demanding” to be represented on the big and small screen…franchises are global wide “promotional vehicles” for their agenda.
Disney wanted to follow suit with other American film studios and so it decided to script the first main female empowered character strong with the Force for one of the biggest and loved franchise in history : Star Wars.
Unfortunately Disney’s intent somewhat backfired and its PC choice became more of a disservice than an achievement …. Rey is depicted unrealistically …Rey knows more about the Millennium Falcon’smechanics THAN Han , she can fly the Millennium like a pro , she can do mind tricks , everything that she achieves comes without (much) effort ,without little to no training .
She’s the heroine of the trilogy and fans should be rooting for her , yet many instead dislike her and will agree that her characterization sucks.
Disney had a great opportunity and blew it…and JJ.Abrams is not the one that is going to clean up the mess
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