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Yeah I listened to a good podcast regarding this issue. It's like the men directors want to have empowered female characters, but are scared to give them any flaws, or put them through anything. For fear they might be accused of promoting female violence. Maybe someone like Patty Jenkins who did a fantastic job with wonder woman (in my opinion anyway) should have been given a chance to do a Star Wars film. I bet she would have done the character of Rey some justice.
I would love to see Rey's character done right. I like the actress I think she looks the part of an up and coming Jedi. Also it's not fair for the actress. Look at what being so hated did to Jake Lioyd.
It's like the guys writing this character are writing the character in a way that will score them social brownie points politically with feminists. At the expense of a potentially good female character.
Where a female director already has those points just by being a woman.
What do you think? Does my theory hold weight?
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Regarding violence and putting female characters through the pain of a strong physical test, it's always been the case that audiences feel uncomfortable with that.
And by creating woman immune to violence breaks suspension of disbalief. I cringed when fin was getting beat up but rey was just skating by with out a scratch. We need an underdog to route far. share
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Ren telling Rey that her parents were dead trash was one of the most powerful moments in any Star Warss. He didn't need to lay a hand on her. That was soul damaging shit brilliantly acted by both. Rey's vulnerabilities are on clear display for those with the heart to feel them.
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That was very well articulated.
shareRidley Scott has been creating empowered and multifacited female characters and leads for decades...
shareit obviously wasn't planned out and why this trilogy is so messy
She wasn't Super Rey for the first 20 years
RJ filled in the blanks with a non-backstory
"it obviously wasn't planned out and why this trilogy is so messy"
Whose stupid idea was it to do a trilogy with three different writers? A trilogy is basically one story told in three parts. I never heard of doing a story without the end in mind.
Rey could easily have a credible backstory to explain her abilities if Johnson wasn't such an arrogant hack who decided to ignore Abrams' hints like the flashback and Maz's question to Han. And I hate how he destroyed Luke Skywalker's character, too. That's worst because at least Rey could be redeemed in the next movie with good writing. Abrams could make her a Jason Bourne type character who had Jedi training but her memory was altered.
Luke isn't salvageable. He became a fearful misanthrope. And am I the only one who is haunted by that milk drinking scene?
Yep. I love it when people say that Lucas didn't plan his trilogy either. Well, he may not have had a fully fleshed out story, but at least his mind was a little consistent between episodes 4-6 rather than have another writer come in and just change what he initially set up. Disney should have taken better care with the franchise and outlined a trilogy before starting episode 7. Star wars has become too big of a franchise to just let the story develop haphazardly.
shareI would argue the exact opposite. Star Wars is so big and iconic, that people should feel liberated to explore without fear. There is no genius to be found in some strict "traditionalist" literalism. We can watch the OT again if we want that. It's not a daytime drama, it's cinema.
shareYes and no. There's no reason that writers can't feel liberated and explore without fear, but at the same time follow a consistent plot outline for a trilogy arc. If they aren't prepared to do that, then don't make a trilogy, just make stand-alone films like Rogue One.
shareExactly. A plot outline should have existed. Writers can be creative within the outline, sort of like Game of Thrones. Follows a set outline but there are creative differences for better or worse. If you want total creative freedom, then spin offs are where to do it.
shareDoesn't that sound predictable and limiting? What director or writer with any talent would want to do an episode if it has to be some pre-packaged fan-service because episodes are assigned "sacred" status?
Well, Lucas had no trouble getting two more directors to do Empire and Jedi after Star Wars was considered to be one of the biggest movies of all time
share"That was a long time a go in a galaxy far, far away" when Star Wars was the only blockbuster franchise known and Marquand was far from a visionary talent.
shareSo you need someone who is completely established? I don't think so. But then, to that argument, why was Johnson used? He made a couple of mediocre movies and then was responsible for the biggest franchise.
And you are telling me there is no one creative enough that is willing to helm 3 movies? Or at least write them? Peter Jackson did so with The Lord of the Rings just fine. Wasn't his story, but I guess he adapted them well enough. I don't like those movies but apparently many people did.
Disney has had great success in all its divisions attracting a wide range of talents who have produced some of the best movies and biggest grosses in the last decade.
Star Wars is just a continuation of how Disney has succeeded in attracting talent for the Marvel, the Pixar movies and their Disnet brand films. Compare this to how Warner Brothers has fared.
There is no creativity without talent and talent doesn't want to work where creativity is determined by studios and/or the untalented/uncreative fanboys rigid in their preconceptions.
But you're saying that people can't be creative unless they are given free reign. I'm saying that isn't necessarily the case. Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones are very successful franchises that are bounded by an established narrative. There was still some creativity within both.
And, it's not necessarily a directors fault but mainly Disney. JJ Abrams is back again, so he's doing 2 of 3 movies. He should have been given all three or not given them at all. From the beginning they should have hired someone willing to take on all three films to keep it consistent. They said they wanted a trilogy of films but they didn't provide any direction. We will see what JJ does in 9,but it's a little strange to build something in 7,have it altered in 8 by someone else.
I know I have more faith in Disney than any other studio, more faith in Kennedy than I ever had in Lucas and more faith in directors with a vision than fanboys with an agenda.
shareYou like to bring up fanboys, which is odd since there is nothing fanboyish about wanting consistent storytelling.
shareWe had "consistent storytelling" with the prequels and it was so bad. It's just an excuse to put pedestrian plot ahead of emotion and theme. The people who complain about "consistent plot" are the plothole nazis who just want a perch to look down on those actually doing the creating. They're literalist vultures with no real taste or skills who swarm every blockbuster, playing keyboard mogul before their shift at Best Buy.
There is nothing wrong with a flawless narrative and I can admire the craft, but give me the narrative leaps of imagination and roller coaster emotions of a Gilliam or a Burton or a Johnson. Without those, plot is just plod.
Haha, that's a lot of assuming. Good luck with the rest of your theories on here.
shareYou don't know that there is no trilogy arc. Haters just know it is not the ones they assumed and that hurts their feelings.
Even if there is no trilogy arc (are we just assuming it's a trilogy?) I think it's exciting to see what each successive director/writer does with what came before and how their creativity expands the universe.
I certainly didn't need to sit through three bad films to tell me Anakin becomes Darth Vader. Clearly, Kennedy is going to do more than connect the plot points for children, like Lucas. Those that want that are going to get that sometimes i.e. Abrams and Rogue 1.
But she also seems to be excited by the possibility of Johnson's subverting the whole hero's journey narrative that really just leads in a circle of violence and war.
I hope Johnson gets to make his trilogy and I hope others get to get their hands in there and surprise us. Sorry, it didn't work out for the original Solo directors. I wasn't nearly as excited about Trevorrow but he might have surprised me and I am certainly open to that with any director.
Who knew Adam McKay was capable of the Big Short?
It had been referred to as a sequel trilogy numerous times, plus based on previous experience, it would make sense.
And there doesn't seem to be a story arc. Rian Johnson said a few times that he rewrote the script and changed established elements. Episode 7 was essentially a reboot of star wars. It continued the story but set up much more for future installments. Episode 8 took many things from 7 and made them irrelevant. Knights of Ren, Snoke, Rey's past, and made the quest for Luke to have a much smaller meaning. He essentially rebooted the reboot. That doesn't sound like having an outline to me.
For the main saga, I rather have a set structure. Outside of that, do whatever you want.
So be it. I'm fine with it being like the Alien franchise. I'm going to be just fine either way. Just don't give me something I've had before even if I liked it or something I can come up with on my own.
shareIndeed. Lucas didn't have fully fleshed out stories for the OT, but he did have story treatments and plot outlines, not only for the OT, but for 12(!) SW movies. The idea of shooting a trilogy without at least the 3 consistent treatments in place is madness.
share"The idea of shooting a trilogy without at least the 3 consistent treatments in place is madness."
The Ackbars agree with this assessment.
Its Madness!
"The idea of shooting a trilogy without at least the 3 consistent treatments in place is madness."
I wouldn't say madness as much as it simply wasn't a priority for a conglomorate that is less interested in crafting a great, memorable story than it is with making as much money as possible while & transparently pushing k.k.'s gender politics & not just with her self insert Mary Sue protagonist she insisted upon.
They went the way of the Hobbit Trilogy and rushed it, instead of the well planned Lord of the Rings Trilogy, there’s little care or love for Disney Star Wars from people in powerful positions, they just want cash and that cash fast.
shareI replied before about Lord of the Rings, then I found this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM1GyLLmx-E
this guy explains the inconsistency and even used the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings as examples about how to and how not to plan a trilogy.
Thought it was interesting
sorry if this was already posted before on the boards
Jar Jar Abrams knew what he was doing. The first thought to writing a script in liberal Hollywood is, is it diverse enough? No? Add minority and/or female. The rest is history. You don't need training if you're a female. They automatically get upgraded into Mary Sue mode. Sith lords have also gotten weaker in this franchise. Might as well just call them Sith Older Than You so I'm boss. Getting killed so easily like that is just... not even worth the title for that ugly faced guy (he sucked so bad I forgot his name already... oh right, Snoke).
shareMaybe Johnson feels we should stop worrying about being the hero who saves the world from over-powered bogey-men and aspire to be something different.
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The first thought to writing a script in liberal Hollywood is, is it diverse enough? No? Add minority and/or female. The rest is history.
Wow, some people really get triggered by the sight of anything but white males.
Even as a white male, I find that so laughable. I have no fear of accepting reality as it is. I don't need my movies to pretend that white men are all that matter in the world.
But some people are just insecure, I guess. They latch onto their gender and their race. As for me, I'm just human (although amazingly, I don't even get bothered when a movie has a cast of animals, shouldn't that be something you MAGA snowflakes complain about too?) share