I agree, great show and great quote. However, I disagree that not having children is selfish. On the contrary, HAVING children is the ultimate act of selfishness.
"Think how utterly, evilly selfish it is to have a child. Think of it! "Oh, honey, wouldn't a baby just be splendid? With its little hands, and its little feet and its little arms and legs and face and smile. Oh, we have to have one." Great, and once it's done, here is another little human to have to grow and learn what a sick collection of animals it is into which he's been born; who has to learn the pointlessness of the asinine cycle of human life; the pain and unhappiness that accompany; the stupidity of the majority; the outrage of old age and death; the unfair circumstances of competition amongst organisms; the injustice of suffering, the absurdity of doctrines and ideologies; the cold blade of war; the inner demons of hunger, desire, self-loathing; who will be taught to hate and feel shame and fear and remorse, regret, guilt; who will one day suck from nonexistence another little conscious body to continue the hideous lineage of incessant dark-humor; and who will one day die, wrapped in a urine-stained, hospital-issued death-shroud, plugged into beeping, blipping machines, fed through dripping bags armed with needles and at the mercy of smart-ass little nurses, who know not yet that they, too, will be faced with this end. What more horrific and vile an act than that of having a child? There can be none. Torture is not worse, murder is not worse, nor rape or anything else, because it is birth that precludes them all. Were it not for birth, none of these other atrocities would have even a chance to be performed. It is the miracle of birth and life that drowns the light of the world, and it is that selfish obeyance of desire that is hung over the heads of all parents in the look of disgust on their disaffected teenager's face. How can one repay an infinite offense?"
- Shane Smith
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steffeeric
12 years ago
That is just some crazy emo talk. Having children cannot be selfish by definition.
Selfish- devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.
Some parents can be selfish sure but the act itself of having children is the ultimate act of selflessness. Think of carrying around a child for 9 months inside you only to have him escape via your vagina. Once the child arrives you give up money, time and friends amongst other things to be able to provide for your child. I understand not everybody is perfect and this is where the selfishness comes into play. The problem is many people aren't prepared for the amount of selflessness having a child truly takes but that doesn't tarnish the entire act itself.
The difference is that the author of the quote only sees the world as evil. Reality is that the world is full of much more good and beautiful things than evil and ugly things. The problem is the immense power these evil things posses. One life can be lived full of 99.9% good and beautiful things but can be forever tainted by one evil act. However looking at it the other way a life full of evil cannot be redeemed by one good act no matter how well-intentioned one may have become along the way. The battle of good vs. evil, optimism vs. pessimism and love vs. hate will always be raging. The numbers will be on the side of good but the power always remains in the hands of evil. This is the unbreakable cycle that makes war and death inevitable.
My final thought will summarize the point I was attempting to make before going on a bit of a tangent. Without existence there is no good or evil...there is nothing. Most schools of thought believe that something is better than nothing. Even if that something isn't always perfect it is the only thing we know. What Shane Smith is saying is that life isn't worth living because we are all going to die and it is going to be tough....I say those two things are exactly what makes life worth living.
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SkinlessTomcat
12 years ago
The nonexistent are free from suffering. By creating a child without its consent, the parents are infringing upon the right of the unborn to be free from suffering. All pleasure is gratuitous, as the nonexistent can not be deprived of pleasure. And just as you have stated, all the pleasure in the world can't make up for a single evil act; by procreating, the parents are opening up the possibility of evil on another person, without their consent.
"I never thought I was doing anyone a favour by bringing children into the world. With people as cruel to each other as they are, it’s a terrible proposition. The best of lives are sad and tragic. The best of them. My general conclusion is that it’s not a nice thing to do. The world doesn’t need it. The kid doesn’t need it." -Woody Allen
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12 years ago
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steffeeric
12 years ago
You are missing my point. If everyone was so selfless as to not have children we would be extinct as a species. It is going against human nature to not want to procreate.
While it has gotten to the point now where the world is overcrowded it will not always be like this. Something will happen to thin out the population as it always does....and when the machines rise I will feel more comfortable knowing John Connor was born...whether he wanted to be or not.
The last Terminator rant might have confused you but if you look at it from the most basic level. You create something other than yourself by having children. The only way other people are created is by having children. If nobody is having children there is nobody outside of yourself to even be selfless. If nobody ever had children nobody would exist and nobody could be selfish either. You still probably have no clue what I am getting at but the bottom line is existence in the broader sense isn't optional.
So on an individual level you can be mad at your parents for not aborting you or your dad for not pulling out or your mom for not swallowing you it doesn't matter....You arrived here the only way you can. If you see the minimal time you are allotted on this Earth as a curse then you will be cursed. If you see this time as a blessing you will be blessed.
Lets try this again. Selfish- Thinking only of ones self
Procreating- 1. To beget and conceive (offspring).
2. To produce or create; originate.
The last word is key for me. Originate- To bring into being; create
It comes from Original- Preceding all others in time; first.
The origin....well is the original origin.
But what it means to me is that there was never anything like you before and there never will be anything like you again. Over 100 billion people have lived on this planet and no two were exactly alike. I don't think it is a coincidence we are here either. We will not be around forever but look what we have created as a species. Even the ability to have this conversation can be considered a miracle. I am not religious whatsoever but I know there is something greater then myself and my parents that has led me to be here. I don't always make the best decisions in my life but I still love it. It is all that I know and all I will ever know. It is really sad to me that people see something as such a curse when I see it as such a gift.
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12 years ago
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steffeeric
12 years ago
"What determines the selflessness or selfishness of the act is WHY you are creating something other than yourself, not THAT you are creating something other than yourself."
This is what I was getting at. The act itself of having children isn't selfish. It is the actions you take afterwards that determines this. If you are going to rape and eat your children then it was selfish, If you are going to be a loving parent and provide for your child it is selfless.
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