Explain to me why Rey is not a Mary Sue?
Heads up I don't want to hear anything about Luke, Anakin, Superman, Indiana Jones, etc. DO NOT say, "well Luke only had 3 lessons", blah, blah, blah. I'm not interested in Luke I am interested in the topic of this thread.
Who wants to go first?
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To be perfectly honest that is more intelligent than the fanboy response I expected.
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I can't believe more people aren't annoyed by this, she outperforms already established characters (Han, Luke, Kylo Ren) with no proper backstory, how can no one recognize this as a poorly written character?
Hell even Robocop had weaknesses, he had Directive 4.
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[SJW]You, you're just scared of the vagina![/SJW]
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Click on this one if you want to see Frogarama...
https://i2.wp.com/www.binghamtonreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/SJW2.gif?fit=1200%2C675
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OMG Frograma is the most annoying poster I have ever come across. What pisses me off the most is he/she never defends Rey instead he/she always deflects to someone else, example: "Well Luke force grabbed the lightsaber in the Wampa cave". That is a clear indication that Frograma has no argument and is simply trying to salvage whatever dignity still remains.
This is another anti-Mary Sue argument I have heard "Well Indiana Jones always wins and gets the girl at the end so is he a Mary Sue?". Uh no because Indiana Jones actually has to put in some effort to come out on top and throughout the film he doesn't do everything perfectly. In both Raiders and Temple he fails at bluffing the villain, he gets captured every time, in Raiders Belloq steals his artifact twice, in Temple he gets tortured and possessed, in Crusade he gets betrayed twice, in Crystal Skulls he gets blacklisted.
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Do you think she is a lesbian? It's entirely possibly that she became a lesbian because men weren't interested in her but now that women aren't interested in her she has now begun an obsession with Rey and actually thinks of her as a real person/lover?
shareExactly, even though the Terminator was an incredibly well armored cybornetic organism they still put him up against the T-1000 which was clearly more advanced. The Terminator had to put forth some actual effort to defeat the T-1000 and protect John, there was always a sense that the heroes might not come out on top and that created a lot of tension and made the movie more engaging. None of that was true with Rey.
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Question is it a fact that being a Mary Sue is a bad thing? Fitting a description does not make something factually bad. Mary Sue is simply a label someone came up with to describe a fictional character. Not a fact that this is a negative. If you can not prove that it is a fact you have nothing other than an opinion to go off of.
Number two her origin is hinted at in the Force Awakens. She had to learn how to survive being on a desert planet. Having to fight for survival makes you well equipped in a lot of areas. Had she not picked up those skills she would not have survived. Unlike Luke she had no one taking care of her. Therefore she had to struggle to survive where as Luke did not. Luke while poor was raised by a loving aunt and uncle.
It seems you are claiming a character to be a Mary Sue because of the origin of the character not being explained. Must every character's skill be shown with intimate detail in order for us to accept them being good at that skill? If so then man that would make a lot of stuff fit the Mary Sue definition. Even if it does fit the definition nothing is factually proving that is a negative.
So she is strong in the force because her parents abandoned her at a young age for booze?
Being a Mary Sue is a negative because she is a weak character. She wasn't well written, it was never established why she is so good and therefore we lack an emotional attachment. Honestly when she fought Kylo Ren I was rooting against her, I didn't feel that she earned all of the "badass" moments she had earlier (like the mind trick) and I found her really obnoxious. That is why being a Mary Sue is a bad thing.
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And the filmmakers just had to drive in the point that she was a "strong female character" by having her snap at Finn "stop holding my hand" while being chased by First Order TIE Fighters who are trying to kill them. That was absurd on all levels.
Sarah Conner was a very strong female character and she got hurt, she got her ass kicked sometimes. I seem to remember the T-1000 stabbing her in the shoulder (I doubt that would ever happen to Rey), I seem to remember Kyle Reese saving her and then she got a piece of metal stuck in her leg. That was why she was a compelling character, even though she was tough she wasn't perfect, she did get into trouble and sometimes she had to be saved.
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The "don't hold my hand" scene was infuriating, it was as if they were trying to say that Star Wars never had any strong female characters and this was something new: a female character that could take care of herself and didn't need men to save her. Um Star Wars has always had strong female characters Princess Leia and Padme were both tough (except for in Episode III but I'll cut her some slack because she was pregnant).
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You haven't proven it to be a fact that being a Mary Sue is a bad thing. I get it you do not like it all you have listed is an opinion. Why should we take it as undeniable truth? I find Daisey Ridley to be a great young talent. I want a fact on why being a Mary Sue is a bad thing. You have failed to provide anything other than your opinion.
shareBecause a Mary Sue is a dull, lifeless character who doesn't have any challenges to overcome. Therefore it is impossible to care about her and in the case of Rey her character has gotten to be so obnoxious that it is to the point that I am actively rooting against her.
shareAgain opinion provide a fact that being a Mary Sue is bad. If you can't you have nothing more than your opinion. The term Mary Sue is annoying because people act like when you point that out it is an undeniable flaw. Nope it is simply a term people have clung to based off a parody character. There are no concrete facts that being a Mary Sue is bad.
shareWell no sh!t, the terms "good" and "bad" are automatically subjective. Kind of like how if I were to say that Meet The Spartans is a bad movie that is still a subjective statement, for all I know there may be people out there who love Meet the Spartans. You might want to open your eyes though because it seems that plenty of people are pissed off about her Mary Sue powers.
shareThen why are you pawning off your opinion as if it is a fact? Why do people owe you an explanation on why they think the film is good? Pretty obvious your mind is made up on how you feel about it which is totally fine.
Also I am well aware plenty of vocal people are pissed off about Rey, should this shape my opinion of what I think of the film?
I didn't say it was a fact, however plenty of people agree with me and you will never change my mind.
shareI know I wont change your mind. People like you I do not get, if you're going to dig your heels in why bother even discussing the film? The minute someone says you wont ever change my mind shows they have no interest in actual discussion. So that proves to me you're simply here to troll.
People agreeing with you does not make your point anymore valid. Why should I care that people agree with you? I can flip that right back around, there are plenty of people who agree with me in thinking The Force Awakens and the Last Jedi are good films. Does that mean anything to you because others agree with me?
I think that's the kind of response people give when they have nothing intelligent left to say.
shareWhat kind of response? Calling out closed minded stuff when I see it? You said other people agree with me as if for some reason that makes what you think credible. Someone else agreeing with you has no bearing on how I should think of the film. I disagree with your points as I am sure you disagree with mine. The difference is I don't try to say oh well others agree with me in order to slight your view, which is exactly what you did to me.
shareIt's a subjective opinion moron. Although I have backed up my opinion and sufficiently explained why I think a Mary Sue is a weak character. Ball is in your court now, explain to me how a Mary Sue is a strong character.
shareIt is a subjective opinion which is why I am allowed to disagree with it. So when you said plenty of people agree with me what was the point in saying that? You said that because you were trying to give your opinion weight. You act as if that gives your opinion weight, it doesn't. Plenty of people agree with me in thinking the new Star Wars films are great. Does that sway you because others agree with me?
You want an explanation here you go. I love the fact that we do not have to be bogged down by a back story with Mary Sues. I love that we can get straight into the story as opposed to watching cliche arks they must go through. The fact that they have endless talents fascinates me.
Yes but if I have to justify why I hate Mary Sue's then you should have to justify why you love Mary Sue's. Let me retort, why do you disagree with backstories? Why is it you don't want to know where the Mary Sue got their powers from? I can't think of too many well know movie heroes that lack the backstory that Rey does.
shareI just did justify why I like Mary Sues. I think a mystery can sometimes add to a character. Sometimes not knowing a back story can add more to a character. Villains and heroes have had this happen. Sometimes less can be more.
shareYou have very strange taste but to each his own. Enjoy your SJW Disney Star Wars films, I guess some people just love sh!t.
shareSome people enjoy terrible Batman films as well so everything will be okay lol.
shareThey aren't terrible Batman films, they are just too complex for you to understand. I have never heard a legit complaint about TDK that wasn't rooted in ignorance.
shareIt does not need to get through you in order for anyone to dislike it. I have never heard a legit complaint about the new Star Wars films that was not rooted in ignorance.
shareI've given you plenty, either you are too stupid to know how to read or you just don't want to hear it.
shareYou gave me your reasons and I disagreed with them. I gave my reasons as to why I think Mary Sues are awesome. You disagree but simply because of that does not mean I did not give my reasons. We all know certain villains have no back story and can be amazing.
shareJust because you disagree with them doesn't mean they aren't legit. Again I don't think you want to hear any complaints because you are such a pathetic fanboy who thinks Star Wars can do no wrong.
shareNever said they were. It is a subjective opinion. Since it is a subjective opinion by you I am allowed to disagree. As you are allowed to disagree with me. I think you are a pathetic Nolan fanboy who thinks he can do no wrong.
shareNice try but I have dished out more than my fair share of criticisms on Dunkirk and I didn't care for Insomnia. Again if you are into boring, lifeless characters with no depth behind them that is your business. If you also enjoy eating dogsh!t for breakfast that is your business as well.
shareI have voiced several critiques of the prequels and why I dislike them. So nice try. Again if you're into a stupid throat cancer sounding Batman with lame exposition be my guest that is your business.
shareYou can trash talk The Dark Knight all you want but the fact still remains that if you understood it you would like it better.
shareNope it is a trash film. The fact remains that if you understood the new Star Wars you would love them.
shareOh I get it completely, believe me there isn't much to understand.
shareAnd I get the Batman films completely there is not much to understand.
shareI don't think you do. Most of the complaints I have heard about it are rooted in ignorance, here are a few classics:
- The bomb would have caused a tsunami
- The bomb would have caused radiation fallout
- Why did Talia help Gordon mark the truck
- How did Bruce get back to Gotham
- Why didn't anyone recognize Bruce in Florence
- Why would Talia sleep with Bruce?
- There aren't enough Batsuit scenes
Blah, blah, blah
Oh no none of those are my problems with the movie. How about Bale's awful Batman voice? It sounds like he has throat cancer.
shareHis Batvoice was awesome and what do you expect him to do? Just talk in his regular voice like Clooney and Kilmer did? You do know he has to sound intimidating right?
Point debunked, move on.
The point was debunked because you disagree? Nope I am entitled to dislike it and you're entitled to like it.
Michael Keaton did it perfectly. He whispered and sounded much more intimidating to me.
So I did move on I like Keaton a lot better. Bale did not end up intimidating to me, he ended up making me laugh at how forced it was.
No I explained in very convincing detail why his Batvoice worked and why he needed to use it. Keaton wasn't intimidating at all, I didn't mind him as Bruce Wayne but he isn't even in the same ballpark at Bale. In my opinion you are just inventing things to bitch about because you are sad and bitter because you don't understand Nolan's work. Maybe you should stick to SJW Disney Star Wars, much closer to your intelligence level.
shareIn convincing detail? All you did was say he needed to do it in order to be intimidating. I would rank Michael Keaton above Bale. Bale is not even in the same league as Keaton's Batman.
In my opinion you are angered by the success of the new Star Wars films because you do not understand them.
Yes I explained why he had to do it, first of all he had to be intimidating secondly he had to disguise his voice so no one would ever figure out he was Bruce Wayne. I didn't mind Michael Keaton but his Bat voice wasn't intimidating and I easily could have figured out he was Bruce Wayne.
OK then what is it I don't understand about Disney Star Wars?
I also don't seem to remember you telling all of the haters on TDKR board that they were wrong back in 2012-2013. I think you really believe in those complaints.
shareI just recently joined this board so I have no idea what you're talking about.
shareNo I'm talking about IMDB, back when it first came out it was flooded by haters inventing plot holes. I don't believe for one second that you weren't there and you didn't say anything. Therefore you must agree with them.
shareWas never a member of imdb. So this point is irrelevant. Nice try though.
shareI don't believe you, this entire board is pretty much just former IMDB members.
shareI only heard about this site recently. I do not need to convince you. So I have no idea what you're talking about move on to another point.
shareSo then are you willing to go to TDKR board and tell everyone there that those complaints are nonsense?
shareWould you do the same for Star Wars? I do not see you doing it.
Why is that my job anyway?
I actually did, I told everyone on TFA board that there was never any indication that Finn died at the end because apparently there were some people on there thinking he did. If you have an ounce of integrity you will make a post on TDKR board and debunk all of those bitchy nitpicks.
shareYou heard me on your little comrade landofree right? He thinks Temple of Doom is trash and Last Crusade is way better. You sure you want to align yourself as close with him as I see you doing?
shareThis is a discussion about Star Wars dumbass, we can save the Indiana Jones conversations for the Indiana Jones board.
shareMake sure you confront your little comrade though. I heard you say only morons like Last Crusade so by your logic that makes landofree a moron.
shareThat is a discussion for another time. Stop deflecting.
shareI know but do not cite him as credible from now on. He is an idiot according to you.
shareWe are discussing Star Wars, everything he has said about Star Wars has been very credible. Maybe my opinion will change if we ever discuss Indiana Jones but for the time being he is credible.
shareHe is credible because he agrees with you. Wow talk about biased. Anyway he said there was no conflict in the new star wars films.
That is completely untrue and I do not see you correcting him.
You are going to have to give me a little more information, what conflict was he referring to?
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Yeah I know that moviedummy is mentally defective, I just enjoy toying with him (as I do with Frogorama)
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You know your boyfriend landofree thinks Temple of Doom is a trash film right? Just thought you should know that since you guys are in such close cahoots with one another.
https://moviechat.org/tt0087469/Indiana-Jones-and-the-Temple-of-Doom/5a45e3ef5df6d30014465172/The-Last-Jedi-of-Indiana-Jones-film
It doesn't make any sense, and it has bad casting. Glad Spielberg said that The Last Crusade was his apology to fans for this wreck. The Young Indiana Jones series was better than this.
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"Mary Sue IS a fictional character, who was created to parody Mary Sue type characters like MaREY Sue."
It was only done to parody female characters, while male characters are allowed to have the same flaws. This is because some people, like yourself, are intimidated by vaginas.
That's probably why you and UltimateHippo seem to have such a hot and heavy relationship, because you can't handle females. The way you two flirt and dance is just too much.
The fact that you have to resort to personal attacks is a clear indication that you have lost this argument. Damn you suck at this.
shareOh what, intimacy is insulting?
Are you saying there is something objectively wrong with being gay?
Wow, you are a true monster.
LOL you're the one who threw it out there as an insult. What's the matter? Cant' even keep up with your own failed attempt at an argument?
shareYou're interpreting it in your own way, and the fact that you and lando having fellatio has anything to do with an "argument" is just hilarious.
Fact is, you're ignoring the argument right now in favor of replying to baited posts. GOOD JOB LOL
Ha, stop trying to deny it, you know damn well you were using that as an insult. I think you need sensitivity training, we need to send you away to tolerance camp.
shareYou sure are dedicated to doing ANYTHING except responding to the actual argument I posted almost twenty minutes ago.
Wow, I've never seen someone DODGING so blatantly.
Tell you what, why don't you actually answer the question that I posed in the original post and this time without any childish/homophobic slurs. I realize you have the brain of a 10 year old but that is no excuse.
shareI did answer the question, 24 minutes ago. It's the ONLY post of mine you haven't responded to.
shareOh I read it and you were just making shit up. It was never confirmed that she started learning the force by being around Kylo, that is just a bunch of fan fiction you pulled out of your ass. You also deflected back to Luke and other force users again which I told you not to do (although I never really doubted you would resort to that). Finally you never answered why Rey is the chosen one? Why did that effect happen to Han when he was close to Kylo? Or Poe? Or Chewbacca?
Stupid Mary Sue.
"It was never confirmed that she started learning the force by being around Kylo"
It was clearly shown. Movies are "show, don't tell." If you can't pick up on subtlety, that just demonstrates how unobservant you are.
"You also deflected back to Luke and other force users again which I told you not to do"
If there is literally zero comparison to the entire franchise, then what is the standard for Force user development? There is none.
Therefore, you have no basis whatsoever.
Your entire argument depends on comparisons, so you're poisoning both sides of the argument and then declaring yourself a winner.
You really can't comprehend anything, can you? You're nothing but a troll.
No it was never confirmed, you are just pulling this out of your asshole, can it with your fan fiction and the fact that you have to make up stuff in order for your argument to stay above water proves that you are completely clueless. Even if that is true I will ask you again, what makes Rey so special? Why didn't Han or Chewbacca or Poe experience the same effects?
I wanted to know why Rey wasn't a Mary Sue, I didn't ask about Luke. I have watched A New Hope countless times since 1990, I know all about his character and he isn't a Marty Stu. You can't defend Rey so you deflect back to Luke and it's utterly pathetic.
YOU HAVE BEEN OWNED LIKE A BITCH!
"No it was never confirmed"
It was shown, and you're obviously blind. That must be why you asked me to reply to your topic nearly a half hour after I did.
"Why didn't Han or Chewbacca or Poe experience the same effects?"
Because they're not Force sensitive at all, obviously.
"I wanted to know why Rey wasn't a Mary Sue, I didn't ask about Luke."
I didn't mention Luke in my reply, but I had to mention the franchise considering that's where you claim the "standards" come from, and yet there are no standards.
Your trolling has already gotten boring. Keep on declaring your own personal victory all you want, it just proves what a mindless idiot you are.
All you have is a hypothesis, all you have is something you just pulled out of your ass and it doesn't hold up. You wanted to justify Rey as a character so you invented reasons that exonerated her unrealistically perfect qualities.
Again that doesn't prove at all why Rey is so incredibly powerful. she outperforms the same guy who learned from Luke freaking Skywalker, she knew how to do a mind trick the minute she even learned she had the force. She outperforms established characters with no explanation. Also if what you're saying is true then Leia is a complete coward, We all know she is force sensitive so all she has to do is stand next to Kylo and she should be able to defeat him. I hope you are beginning to realize how stupid that sounds.
You can't defend Rey as a character so you have to compare her to other characters. A strong character should be able to stand on their own, a strong character has a convincing back story that explains their abilities, a strong character is one that the audience relates to and wants to come out on top. Rey fits none of those characteristics. How is Rey force sensitive? You can't say it was from her parents because it was established that her parents were a couple of nobodies.
You are so utterly pathetic, you have no idea what you're talking about, you don't even understand TDKR which makes sense and explains why TFA is much closer to your intelligence level. Just leave the internet, stay in your safe space you stupid snowflake.
I've noticed alot of times when people are getting destroyed and their arguments are falling flat on their stupid faces they often pull out the race/gender card. It is a very pathetic and disgusting argument tactic and it isn't going to work. Frograma needs to be in sensitivity training so she can be properly educated.
share^tantrum^ and has obviously never seen Alien, Aliens, Blue Steel, Voyager, Le Femme Nikita (the original)...oh, I'll just stop. Frogarama is afraid of female characters that are believable and relatable. Sad.
shareDespite it being a fictional character to parody Mary Sue type characters, it still does not make it a fact that it is bad. Provide a fact that being a Mary Sue is bad not an opinion a fact. You can't because it is an opinion nothing more.
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That is an opinion you posted. I recall plenty of conflict in Rey about where she comes from. This is hinted at in both the Force Awakens and in the Last Jedi. Proof is in this clip here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mrw6l9YiB0
The conflict of wanting to turn Ben Solo to the light is also another example. So no there is still conflict.
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I have pal. Now do you want to come up with a clever rebuttal or be a condescending person?
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I did not fail actually but anyway I am waiting for a rebuttal. So what do you have anything good? Not once did I insult you, I simply disagreed. Are you going to be mature or resort to insults because you disagree with me?
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No I claimed that being a Mary Sue does not by default make something bad. It is a label people have clung onto ever since that fictional character. The thing is they think that is a royal flush card. All you have to do is say is Rey is a Mary Sue and the film is trash say nothing else. Fitting the Mary Sue definition does not make something bad, it is merely an opinion that it is bad. Therefore since it is an opinion and not a fact that it is negative I am allowed to disagree.
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In your opinion it is bad to be a Mary Sue. No fact to back that up.
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Why is it a fact that Mary Sues are bad characters? Is it because the majority thinks so? Is it because the writer who made Mary Sue thinks they are? Even if the majority did think so it would not make it a fact. Learn the difference between opinion and fact.
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You're the one claiming to have facts. I asked you to provide me a fact as to why Mary Sues are bad characters. You did no such thing. I already disproved it lol. I ask you for a fact that they are bad and you can not provide one. Not once did I ever claim I had facts you're the one that did that.
If you had a fact you would have provided it by now. All you did was give me your opinion. So I am giving you another chance to provide a fact. So you have the floor lets see it. This is your chance to silence me.
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Wow so you are so lazy you try and copy me beat for beat. You did not prove anything bud you gave your opinion on why they are bad. When you give an opinion all someone has to do is disagree with it. A fact can not be disputed no matter how hard someone tries.
So can you provide a fact or not? I never said I could provide a fact so the burden of proof is on you not me. Deflection is your forte not mine. I proved Rey had conflict and you had no response.
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Go over my posts did I ever once say I had facts? Check over them thoroughly and point to where I said I had facts. Mary Sues being bad characters is not a fact. If it was you would have provided that fact, you did no such thing. So no Mary Sues are not bad characters. Since you have no facts to back up the claim on them being bad all I have to do is disagree.
I already proved you wrong about there being no conflict. Now it is your turn to prove me wrong. Go ahead do not be shy. You keep deflecting the ball is in your court. Are you too chicken to take a shot?
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Nope I won this little game. Thank you. You're the one who said you had facts yet when asked to provide them you did not. I never claimed to have facts lol so I have nothing to prove. Game set thank you for the win bud. It has been an honor.
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Remember when you said there was no conflict earlier? Rey is a Mary Sue so no conflict. I proved this wrong as well. Do you know the definition of conflict? Here let me help you out.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/conflict
There is conflict between Luke and Rey and Kylo Ren and Rey in the Last Jedi.
Another case where you were proven wrong. LMAO this is hilarious.
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The definition of conflict is a fact. You said there was no conflict which there was. Therefore yep I did provide one actually. Do you need me to provide you the definition of fact as well? Here let me help you out again. This is embarrassing.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/fact?s=t
Okay, no comparisons?
First off, Rey isn't perfect, and I've shown the list of screw-ups many times. Presenting her as flawless is literally a lie based on an agenda.
Secondly, she has vaguely defined magical powers that are literally designed to make people more capable, beyond just granting them new abilities. Also, there is no hard standard of "Force development" in her movie franchise.
Third, she seems to be feeding off Kylo's powers as well, whether that is due to Kylo or Snoke or herself. She only learns Force techniques when Kylo does them around her, or to her.
Easy enough.
I agree with frogarama.
Rey is not a interesting lead character and there is no explanation for her mastery of the force
Meanwhile, there is no explanation for Luke, and everone is fine with that..
An old man urges Luke to predict the shots from a floating taser ball, and see them without his eyes. Later he uses the Force instead of a targeting computer when hundreds of lives are on the line.
Even later than that, when stuck in a cave, Luke suddenly decides, even though he's never seen it, that the Force also allows for telekinesis. Then he accomplishes it, literally inventing the Force pull, without any prior knowledge or instruction.
No explanation, and yet that is fine. No explanation for how Luke became such an amazing light saber user that he can defeat Vader, who had been fighting with a lightsaber longer than Luke had been alive.
Only Rey gets picked apart, all because the misogynist and sexual predator Max Landis popularized a term that you can repeat ad nauseum.
What did I say at the very beginning? I wanted to hear why Rey wasn't a Mary Sue, I didn't ask anything about Luke. You know she's a poorly written character so therefore you have to steer the conversation to whatever problems you can find with the way Luke was written. You are pathetic, your argument can't stand on its own so you have to tear down Luke's character in order for you to justify Rey.
And you can go ahead and can it with the sexism speeches, that is another indication that you have lost, all you have left is to call your opponents sexist. I seem to remember Princess Leia and Padme being strong female characters as well (well except for ROTS) and no one ever complained about them being Mary Sues, why? Because they were well written characters and they didn't have abilities that were outside the suspension of disbelief. I have never heard anyone call Ellen Ripley or Sarah Conner or Catwoman Mary Sues either for the exact same reason.
No one cares that she's a powerful female, we have a problem with the fact that she was poorly written. Do you understand now or do I have to write this out in crayon?
Oh and you wouldn't even know the term Mary Sue if it wasn't for the misogynistic sexual predator hack Max Landis popularizing it. You're literally just a parrot.
shareYeah I got it, if you hate Rey you are a sexist. Hillary Clinton used that same tactic against President Trump and she ended up suffering the most humiliating defeat in American History. That tactic has been tried and it fails, learn some new material.
shareGood god, your trolling is so bland and repetitive.
Why don't you actually reply to the ACTUAL ARGUMENT I posted to your topic instead of jumping on the unrelated responses?
Ha, no intelligent response. YOU...HAVE...BEEN...OWNED!!!
In all seriousness though going off topic is all you know how to do. When asked to defend Rey you constantly deflect to Luke because you know your argument is so incredibly stupid and that you've been boxed into a corner.
With Rey Specifically. He said she had no conflict in the Last Jedi. Here is the definition of conflict.
to come into collision or disagreement; be contradictory, at variance, or in opposition; clash:
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/conflict
This does happen in the Last Jedi. It does not matter if you thought the film was trash, there is still conflict in the film.
Can I have a link?
shareConflict is the essence of drama. No conflict = No Drama. No drama = Boring. MaREY Sue is boring because she has no conflicts.
I think you are misinterpreting what he is saying. He's saying that Rey is so incredibly good at everything she is able to achieve her objectives with very little effort put forth and it makes her a dull, lifeless and flat out annoying character to the point that I wanted Kylo Ren to chop her arm off.
shareHe said no conflict which is untrue.
shareHe is clearly smarter than you are and his point is going right over your head.
shareSure. He also said it was a fact that being a Mary Sue is bad. When I proved him wrong he deflected. It is not a fact that being a Mary Sue is bad it is an opinion. You going to correct him on that?
shareCan I have a link? I can see some truth to that though because the original Mary Sue was intended to be a joke and a spoof of female characters who has unexplained and unbelievable abilities.
shareIt still does not make it a fact. It is still opinion nothing more.
shareMay I have a link because I suspect you are not presenting this statement in its full context.
shareMaRey Sue is a parody of actual bad fictional characters. Therefore, it is bad to be a MaRey Sue, or in the case of the actual MaRey Sue story, it's funny because it's true. What is true? MaRey Sues are bad characters. That's a fact. Case closed.
Well yeah his logic was the original Mary Sue was intended to be a bad character, you can agree with that logic or not but you can't deny that he has a point.
shareI did not dispute that. He said it was a fact that being a Mary Sue is bad. Thing is it is not it is just an opinion. You're not going to dispute that piece of it are you? If it is a fact that being a Mary Sue is bad prove it. He provided his reasons as to why he thinks being a Mary Sue is bad, he did not provide a fact. It doesn't matter if someone has the most logical reason in the world that does not make it a fact because of that. He wants to think that but it is not true.
shareI personally would have worded myself differently however he has a very good point which I agree with. They took a character that was meant to be a joke and then they put her on steroids and created Rey. The fact that Rey was created from a spoof should be all he should have to say.
Sorry buddy but that's the furthest you are going to get with me.
Again but you did not answer the question. Show me a fact that being a Mary Sue is bad. You agreed with his point but him saying it is a fact that being a Mary Sue is bad is not a fact it's an opinion. I proved him wrong there. Unless you would like to provide a fact proving that it is a fact that being a Mary Sue is bad. You have the floor go ahead prove it.
If you can not provide a fact then you will have to admit he was wrong in saying that it was a fact.
The Force Awakens was meant to be taken seriously, the original Mary Sue was meant to be a joke and Rey is more exaggerated than the original Mary Sue. They are inserting a complete joke of a character into a "serious" movie and they want us to take said character seriously. That is why its bad.
shareOpinion still where is the fact? So any Mary Sue character has to be a spoof in order to be good? Says who? The creator of the Mary Sue? Again still opinion. Provide me a fact that being a Mary Sue is bad.
shareAgain I would have chosen my words differently had I been lando, I am not the one arguing that it's an objective fact and you are going to have to take that up with him. In all honesty though I can definitely see where he's coming from. Rey was a complete joke.
shareSo I assume you will correct him about claiming it to be a fact correct? Also then why is it my job to correct stupid claims against Nolan's Batman films? Take that up with them.
shareNo because I understand what he was trying to say and he has a legit point. He didn't choose his words very well but I don't see it as anything serious enough to warrant a correction.
shareIt's actually a big thing dude. Claiming something to be a fact when it isn't deserves correction.
shareFrom where I'm standing it's not a big deal so no I will not be correcting him. He seems like a very level headed poster who has for the most part great taste in film.
shareSo claiming something to be a fact when it isn't is perfectly fine? He likes last crusade better than temple of doom. Therefore according to you his taste is questionable. Basically as long as you dislike the new star wars films you can make completely untrue statements and you gladly will look the other way.
Come on just look at the circumstances, look at how utterly flawless Rey is, it's perfectly logical that he would say that.
shareAgain that's not where I had an issue. He said it was a fact that being a Mary Sue is bad. It isn't it's an opinion.
shareYou are grasping at straws here. If he just changed one sentence you would have no ammunition against him. That shows how pathetic your argument is.
shareSome don't think before they speak. I never claimed to have facts where as he did. He couldn't provide one fact. Therefore I won lol.
An opinion can be disputed so no actually I easily could list why I disagree with him. I gave you the reasons I like Mary Sues. Since it is all opinion neither one is right or wrong.
Considering the original Mary Sue was intended to be a complete joke one could make the argument that it's a fact that Mary Sue's suck. I am not ready to go in that direction but I'm not going to denounce anyone who feels differently.
shareYou won't go there because you know you will fail.
So are we going off of the guy who created Mary Sue? If so still opinion. Provide a fact or sit down and be quiet.
I myself love Mary Sues.
Again buddy maybe you should be taking this up with Lando, he is the one who made the comment, all I said was that I could see where he was coming from.
shareI don't care what you believe. I never made those comments, therefore not my job to correct them. Making baseless accusations is not helping you.
shareIf you want to get anywhere with me you need to make a post on TDKR board immediately and denounce those make up bitchy nit picks.
shareHa absolutely not! You're willing to let lando off the hook for making a false claim, yet expect me to lawyer up for you? Nope sorry!
shareI am not saying anything to Lando until you do what I say.
shareI couldn't care less what you do. I'm not your puppet. I'm not playing a silly game like that just to soothe your fragile psyche. Even if I were to you wouldn't say a word to him. So no that isnt happening. Anything else or are we done here?
shareIf you couldn't care less about me then why did you respond to my thread?
shareI cared about an actual debate not playing silly games. Since you're about playing games I no longer care.
shareYou came looking for a fight, you got your ass kicked and now you're looking for an easy way out.
shareThat is rich how did I get my ass kicked? Because I didn't bow down to your silly demands?
shareBecause I provided very convincing reasons why Rey sucks as a character and you couldn't provide a single logical counter argument.
shareUm wrong yes I did. I gave you reasons as to why I love Mary Sues. You simply disagreed. Just because you disagree doesn't make my opinion less valid.
You asked me to give my reasons as to why I liked Mary Sues and I did. You then said well to each his own you have a strange taste. Some people just love crap. So no I did provide reasons as to why I think Mary Sues are actually excellent. I love having mystery and no back story it is a nice change of pace for me.
It is okay though you like terrible Batman films. Since you want to belittle my taste I will do the same to you. You simply dislike the new Star Wars because you do not understand it.
See how much of a douche move that is? Basically you do not allow anyone to have an opposing view. There are some people who just do not like the new Star Wars movies and I can accept that. There are some people that just do not like Nolan's Batman films accept it. You are no less of a person for liking those films and I am no less for loving the new Star Wars.