So glad they gave us an ending
But so sad it is now over. I can't say that I always understood exactly what was happening as it was happening, but this show was so inventive, original, and inclusive. I'm going to miss it for sure.
shareAhahahaa, the actual confrontation was over in like 15 seconds when Wolfgang pulled out a rocket launcher, ROFLMAO. And then they spent the next 15-20 minutes on a gay wedding on top of the Eiffel Tower and a sex scene to end ALL sex scenes. They even threw in a close-up shot of that ridiculous sloppy wet Rainbow strap-on from the 1st episode.
Hilarious part for me was that Indian Husband came out of the closet to...as Cuckold no less. This shit had me in stitches.
Didn't you watch the rest of the series? I thought that the finale was in tune with everything else that they'd done. If you didn't like it that's totally fine, but it's not like they changed the tone or anything.
shareYes, I did and yes it was, I hated all the identity politics and social justice agenda crap, but then I kinda put it on mental block, so it wasn't as distracting from the cool parts of the show. I just find that crap more hilarious and cheeky now than ever. Overall good show 8/10.
shareI'm not trying to disregard your statement, I'm just trying to understand how having one show that has non straight characters as having an agenda. I've never understood this. There is diversity in this world, there certainly are gay and trans people, so why does having a show that highlights that have to be about social justice and identity politics?
I'm seriously not trying to be confrontational, I'm just really trying to understand.
I never said I have problems with having representation in TV shows or movies. It's not about that at all. It's the way these characters are all handled and the way main plot just halts several times throughout the seasons just to bring you "PSA: being gay is okay, kindness is sexy, don't be afraid to come out of your closet" etc, etc, acceptance is good etc, etc. It's like we get it, we get it, thank you LANA, can we get back to the plot now?
I mean, if you didn't notice how ON THE NOSE it all was maybe you think it's a good thing to be finally represented?
Remember that episode when Wolfgang and Lila face off each other at the club for the 1st time? And each of their clusters showing up from behind? Hot damn!!! Gimme more of that please!!!
Yet, in the finale, there was no true 8 on 8 confrontation like I was hoping it was gonna be or even Wolfgang on Lila (with each of their clusters present). Their whole face off and eventual win was rather quick and disappointing even though the stakes were super high, life or death situation...
I agree that it was rather quick, but I did enjoy the regulars fighting along side. I can understand your complaints about the action. I rather enjoyed the finale, but I can see why someone wouldn't. I liked that the show was as much about the characters as the action. I also liked Jessica Jones S2 where I know a lot of people didn't because of lack of action.
My issue is just that people will say that showing gay relationships is a PSA, when I don't hear complaints about 007 wasting time on the Bond girls or similar situations.
Go through and count how much screen time is dedicated to massive orgies and "non cis" sex scenes. Then go watch James Bond and count how much screen time is dedicated to "cis" sex scenes.
Then tell me how much of Sense8 is harping on identity politics. And then go watch James Bond and tell me how much of it is harping on identity politics.
Maybe James Bond wasn't the best example, I should have used something from HBO. There are movies that have gratuitous sex and nudity. Yes, people complain about that as well but they don't call it PSAs. I just am so freaking sick of everything being "identity politics." It's just another buzz term. The show was very inclusive. It represented so many different people. If you didn't like the sex, that's fine. No one is saying that you have to. But until I see the same types of complaints about straight sex scenes being all about the straight agenda, I'm won't stop questioning. Yes LGBTQ are a minority, but so are shows like Sense8.
Identity politics has existed for millenia. It has infiltrated our schools, corporate policies, and legislation. Since the advent of social media, we are inundated by identity politics like never before. It is the core of our sociopolitical landscape. No, it's not just a "buzz word". Equity policies, diversity quota's, affirmative action, these are all identity politics because the ideologues are not based on merit, but rather identity. It's a very real thing.
When a creator(ie. wachowski's, kennedy, etc.) goes out of their way to tell you how diverse a cast or story is, that is an agenda. It inevitably bleeds through to the script because the creators motivation IS the agenda.
In a show like GoT, it is not trying to depict hetero sex, or gay sex, it is either informing the character or pushing the narrative. And even still that show has less nudity and on screen sex than Sense8. I would wager that sex scene in the finale of Sense8 has more on screen sex run time than the first 3 seasons of GoT combined. Sense8 is a first draft of a cool sci-fi concept strung together by a bunch of LGBTetc. PSA sex scenes. It is borderline softcore porn. And if a show did the same thing but with straight people, I would also call that trash. But it is not an apt comparison imo.
There's a difference between a story that has subtle commentary, and a story that is simply there to serve a message. A more apt comparison would be to watch a film like Annihilation, it has a plethora of commentary that is intricately woven in to the plot. It is a magnificent sci-fi that is already in my top 5 all time. You could watch it and not even notice any commentary. Then you watch Sense8, and it's literally just hammering you over the head with it's commentary. That's the difference between a good film/show, and a PSA. When a viewer can watch your content and not even realize there is commentary, that is when it's good.
Older Trek is also another good example. I can watch Roddenberry Trek and analyze all the early existential ideas that he depicted in his series/movies. But there's a boat load of Star Trek fans out there that just watch it because it's a fun character driven space adventure. And their eyes would gloss over if I were to talk about the Nietzchean perspectives on egalitarianism, religion, purpose, etc. We're both watching the same thing, but we're getting something totally different out of it. And if I feel like it, I can turn my brain off and get the fun space adventure bit, because it's not all about the message. There's a fun story in there too. The story elements are not glazed over in order to promote a specific agenda. And even then, the commentary in that show was about enlightenment, not identity. Because identity politics is the literal antithesis of egalitarianism, and Roddenberry was all about egalitarianism.
The 100 is a show that actually has identity politics. But the story doesn't so completely hinge on its politics, and the sci-fi concept is developed enough so that I can shut off my brain and just enjoy the sci-fi show. It's not great writing, but I can still enjoy it.
You can only get one thing out of Sense8. There was a really cool concept in Sense8. But that concept was not vetted well enough, it was 90% focused on the message(and only 90% is being generous). Because if I ignore the commentary, it's just an undeveloped sci-fi show. Like I said in the previous post, it was like a first draft of a cool sci-fi concept. I was in to it in the beginning. Like if they dedicated enough screen time to condense that 2 season + finale arc in to just the 1st season, I would have really liked the show; and it would probably still be running. But it was so focused on agenda and just really pretentious superfluous scenes at the expense of pushing the narrative of the story arc, it was off putting to me. The show just went nowhere fast. The pacing was slower than a 24 episode serial, and they only had 13 episodes a year? Regardless of politics, that's just bad screen writing. There's so many places they could go narratively with that concept. It's just too bad the Wachowski's heads were so far up their own asses to be able to explore it.
I can watch almost any sci-fi/fantasy show/film. The only one I can think of that I 100% didn't like was In the Name of the King with Jason Statham. And I watched that when I was younger and took myself more seriously. I'd wager I'd get a laugh out of it now with Ray Liotta playing Ray Liotta dressed up as a mage. So if I don't like something, there's going to be a good reason.
I agree that identity politics has been around forever. I still consider it a buzz term. Everything from age, religion, social class or caste, culture, dialect, disability, education, ethnicity, sex, to gender identity, and more play into so identity politics. So in my opinion pretty much everything that is made has an "agenda". Everything is "identity politics" they just might be ours or someone else's.
I get where you are coming from. I agree with the pacing of the show being slow, and the sex was over the top. They didn't hide that. It was right there in the first episode. I'm fine with anyone not liking the show. I just think that it is disingenuous to only call out the identity politics of shows or movies that don't align with our own identity politics.