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did anyone else find it hard to sympathize with Dido? spoilers

posted 10 years ago by Erin-Leigh-14
25 replies | jump to latest

when it was made clear to the audience that Dido was not permitted to eat dinner with her family and their guests, Dido is visibly dejected. on first glance, i was like, "yeah, wow, poor girl.." and then... first of all, this wouldn't be the first time it's come up - Dido had been living there for what? 10 years by that point? don't you think she'd be used to it by now? of course, i don't imagine she ever LIKED it, but when that's the norm in the house where you've grown up, that's just the way things are. as a cinematic device, her visible dejection would have seemed more appropriate if it had taken place in a scene during her childhood, when she'd just arrived at the house.

but more importantly, my mind then went to, "oh boohoo. poor girl can't eat that gourmet meal in the dining room with those snooty people. poor girl has to eat that gourmet meal in a fancy-shmancy parlour wearing a fancy-shmancy dress. poor girl would have been better off being left where she had been, a mulatto child of a dead slave mother and no father in sight, who would likely have become a slave herself if she didn't die of starvation first, instead of being abducted, held captive in a mansion, surrounded by people who love her, with nothing to wear but beautiful gowns, and forced to eat her gourmet dinner ALL. BY. HERSELF." i get that it wasn't the ideal situation, and i'm not saying she deserved to be segregated, but i just found it so hard to feel too sorry for her when we know what her alternative would have been.

have you tried that crazy wrap thing?! http://erinleighmckenzie.myitworks.com

[–] fidgette 10 years ago

Wow, I think you missed the point entirely.

If you were partially accepted, while being told/shown daily how you are below people who seem to call you family, would this not upset you? Would this not cause you to feel inferior, unwanted, unloved? Sure she had money, but she was trapped and enslaved just as much, even though she had "pretty" things because she had no say in her life because of her skin colour.

When you watched Harry Potter, did you think he deserved to live in the closet and be a slave to the family? Or did you think the family at least took him in so he should shut his gate?

Basically what you're saying is because she lived within that family dynamic for so long, she shouldn't have a right to cry about it because she should be used to it. So do you think a child who is abused from a young age should just get with the program because they should be used to it by now?

Do you even understand the human spirit, or are you just as heartless as your post comes across?

[–] Erin-Leigh-14 10 years ago

no, i didn't miss the point. like i said, it certainly wasn't the ideal situation, and given where we are in terms of race relations these days, it would certainly be awful if Dido were experiencing that today. but in that time period, when black people were servants at best and slaves being thrown over the side of a ship at worst, Dido was comparatively lucky. again, i acknowledge it wasn't fair or the ideal way of being raised, but given the alternative, i'm sure Dido would prefer to eat alone in a room than to not eat at all, don't you think? comparing her, who was loved and looked after wonderfully but had to conform to certain social formalities, to a child who is abused from a young age is insulting and belittling to that child. and you mean to tell me that Dido was treated by her family the way that Harry Potter was treated by his? on second thought, i must have missed the point.. i was under the impression Harry was treated horribly unfairly by the Dursleys.

have you tried that crazy wrap thing?! http://erinleighmckenzie.myitworks.com

[–] ccherry-1 10 years ago

She has no say in her life because she's female. Elizabeth has no say in her life either. She's on the fringes of society because of her color and ambiguous status (illegitimate); that's a different thing.

[–] WishfulDreamer 10 years ago

I actually sympathized with her from the get go. She may have comfort and wealth, but she would always be looked down upon for her black heritage. That's why I considered the mirror scene so brilliant. We pan out from her angst and upset to the camera panning out to the lovely room she possesses.

I'm not saying she had a terrible life. She was comfortable and had a family who cared about her. But how hurtful would it be that you could never dine with your family in the evenings because of half of your blood--when a man who was a practically a stranger could be invited, simply because he was all white? She is treated like an outsider, always to be stared at, gossiped about, and subject to cruelty and mistreatment (from James) that she never would have had to endure had she not been half black. It could not have been easy. I also think this is part of why the Zhong ordeal is all the more upsetting to her. If one's mother is black, her children are considered black, no matter the race of the father. This was the ideology under the slave trade. Dido was lucky enough not to be a slave and to have a father who loved her and wished her to have a good life. But how would it feel to know that she could have been one of those on that ship had her circumstances been different?

[–] KassyL 10 years ago

Well said WishfulDreamer. That is exactly the point the pain is still as severe, wealthy or poor to be treated unfairly and unjustly based on something you can neither change nor should be mistreated for...the color of your skin.

To not be sympathetic to these feelings of rejection...when you KNOW you are just as valuable as anyone, when you KNOW you are not less than and your mother's skin is not a curse and your father's blood alone is not what gave you all of your gifts, would be at best~insensitive.

The story unfolds to inform the viewer that Dido was gifted beyond the material wealth and care of her family, it shone so brightly that the family at times felt compelled to downplay her exceptional abilities (the piano in the parlor scene). To say that she should have been thankful (and not pained each and every time her family treated her as 'less than') for her position of wealth and privilege because without it she would have been dead, a slave or nothing is to declare that all black people never overcame their condition of slavery during that time, and we know there were many exceptions who did it without the help of family or wealth, their inner wealth shone through.

Who's to say that with or without the Mansfield family's care and wealth she would not have found her true love, Mr. Davinier anyway? He didn't care about her wealth or status and was fighting for her freedom if she were a slave, destiny finds you wherever you may be.

The OP shares the same view as the Ashford family...Dido should just be 'thankful' (accept a fate she knows she doesn't deserve because it's the best she could ever do in life) and not be so 'uppity' about it.

QofH3arts

[–] Erin-Leigh-14 10 years ago

as i've said in previous posts, seeing things through a 21st century perspective, of course i don't share the same view as Dido's family. but seeing things through the perspective of the social norms at the times, i feel that Dido was in better circumstances than most people in her predicament would have found themselves. might she have still found her wonderful man? of course. might she have made a great life for herself on her own? a definite possibility. might she have ended up a slave or dead? more likely. i'm glad she grew up in a family who loved her and did the best they could for her in a time when most families would have rejected her outright, even if it meant she had to eat alone sometimes. i'm not being insensitive, and i'm glad we live in a very different society than is portrayed in the movie, but i stand by my opinion.

have you tried that crazy wrap thing?! http://erinleighmckenzie.myitworks.com

[–] hka-3 10 years ago

You've summed things up pretty well, OP. It's true that Dido should've known what to expect by that time. It was an awkward situation when Aunt Mary -- who's not exactly dumb, but she's kind of in her own little world -- was discussing it with Dido and Elizabeth, because apparently she thought she got Dido's hopes up that she might be included this time. Then Aunt Mary awkwardly had to remind Dido of their usual custom. Ultimately it did seem like a heavy-handed way for the screenwriter to inform us, the viewer, of their current situation (other than that, the writing/directing for this film is usually thought out well).

We're not supposed to feel all that sorry for Dido. As she said, she's twice blessed as a "negro" and as a woman by being much better off than many others. She knew that although her family loved her, they didn't feel that socially they had the freedom to treat her entirely as an equal. Dido mentioned how even in John Davinier's family's home he was "permitted to the table before the lady of the house." She was trying to convince herself that certain people being treated better than others was a social norm, whether or not skin color was involved.

After that Dido was feeling insecure due to her skin color in the scene in which she was looking in the mirror and punching herself (I think a lot of us go through a similar type of insecurity no matter what our skin color is and the screenwriter/director did a good job of indicating that all humans are subject to struggling in life). When Dido discovered that her skin didn't need to hold her back -- partly due to her experience of getting to know John -- she could proudly look at herself in the mirror.

I wouldn't be surprised if later Lord Mansfield said, "Screw social norms," (or you know, something to that effect, lol) after standing up to society with his ruling on the Zong case, then he and his family stopped dining separately.

Mag, Darling, you're being a bore.

[–] imabe 10 years ago

From the beginning, Dido and Elizabeth played together like sisters. They did everything together, dressed the same and enjoyed the luxury of the house. But, with everything seemingly the same, she was excluded from the dining room during dinner. When she got older, she realized it was a slight to her and would never - no matter how they told her they loved her - change. It is hard to feel like you are loved when you are treated differently because your skin is darker. The mere fact that she has grown up with white people only makes her feel that much more different and she will never be accepted by this family. I felt sorry for her. From the beginning, she realized that she was different - and when her father brought her home, it was obvious how the family thought of her - mulatto and illegitimate. Try that on for size and tell me that it wouldn't drive a knife into your heart.

[–] Erin-Leigh-14 10 years ago

my difficulty with feeling too sorry for her is that i can see what her alternative would have been, and i'd have felt a heck of a lot sorrier for her in that situation than i do in the one she ended up in.

have you tried that crazy wrap thing?! http://erinleighmckenzie.myitworks.com

[–] imabe 10 years ago

Maybe but, at least she would have been among "family" then. She is the lone black girl in this all white family. It is hard to deny that it makes her feel different and perhaps accounts for her not receiving the same benefits that the "sister" Elizabeth is awarded.

[–] Erin-Leigh-14 10 years ago

in the same way that the colour of her skin should not have excluded her from eating dinner in the same room as everyone else, her skin colour should not dictate who her family was. these people loved her and she loved them - that makes them her family. if we say she isn't among family unless she's among black people, we perpetuate the division that caused her to have to eat in a different room.

have you tried that crazy wrap thing?! http://erinleighmckenzie.myitworks.com

[–] imabe 10 years ago

I think there was a true sisterly love between her and Elizabeth but her aunt felt disdain for her because she was illegitimate and black. She would remind Belle of it even though she professed to love her "in spite of this" fact. That, to me, isn't real love. She was made to feel shamed by not being able to join the family for dinner and wasn't allowed to "court" like her "sister" Elizabeth. How can you feel loved by being treated like this?

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] scribe76 8 years ago

You truly sound like a callous individual. I'm not sure what your racial background is but studies have shown that white people typically have a hard time empathizing with black people, and you certainly sound like you have a problem with that. You have all of these posters replying that, no, they don't have a hard time sympathizing with Belle but insist that you are somehow right. You aren't. Belle did not grow up a motherless slave, so, no, she's not sitting around thinking that she should just accept segregation in her household because things could've been worse. She felt like an outsider in her home because of her racial heritage, something she could not change. And without any people of color around to shield her from the effects of white supremacy, she didn't know how to cope in this situation. She internalized racist norms rather than reject this racist tradition as unjust. I really don't know what's wrong with people anymore. People have no problem empathizing or telling others to empathize with the white people who voted for Donald Trump, but you have a hard time empathizing with a mixed-race girl who was a complete anomaly during her time period. She was completely alienated, which affected her psyche. Your ability to empathize isn't a reflection of Belle but a reflection of you as a person. I am sorry for being harsh, but I find your question preposterous, just as I find the struggles of white people to accept my humanity as a black woman to be preposterous.

[–] Erin-Leigh-14 8 years ago

you hit my racial background on the head - i'm white, and i am very aware of my privilege. that privilege most likely played a large part in the filter through which i watched this movie, but not in the way you might think. i am continuously disgusted with the way black people are treated in America. i am outraged that Trump was elected (and have unfriended several people on Facebook over their support of him), and terrified for what that means for you. as a white woman speaking today with a black woman, i cannot wrap my head around how the colour of your skin should play any role in how you are judged and treated and what opportunities you are or are not presented with, and i agree that it is atrocious that this is still a struggle. while i can understand how my original post may be construed, i promise you i am not callous and unempathetic to the challenges and tragedies black people face, often at the hands of white people. and i realize that black people were still people, still human beings with the same feelings and needs and hopes and dreams, in the time period this movie was set - but i also believe the challenges and tragedies they faced then were far worse than they are now. i have said in further posts that i, of course, don't agree with the norms and traditions of that time period - but, when i viewed this situation through the filter of those norms and traditions, Dido eating alone vs Dido being a slave, I was glad to see her eating alone. and i hold my original opinion firm not because i am callous and racist, but because i am glad this particular black girl was given a life far better than many in her position would have had. where you have given me pause for thought, though i think i see even this differently than you, is the point you made about Dido not growing up a motherless slave - to me, that aspect just reaffirms that she didn't realize how much worse her life could have been. have you watched 'the Book of Negroes'? i watched that series with Dido in mind, and several times thought about how happy i was that that was not her life.

[–] KassyL 10 years ago

Exactly my point @imabe.

Slaves and even poor people are capable of feeling loved and respected simply by being surrounded by those who are like themselves, there is comfort and security in that. Even though her mother died, she would have been loved by many mothers, even in times of great despair the slaves had each other and were deeply loved amongst their own.

The clawing away at her skin is a violent act of self hatred and for some death would be a welcome escape. I think the OP underestimates the importance of self identity.

I grew up around mostly white people in the Air Force and as an adult I found myself envying my fellow brothers and sisters who grew up in the projects because they shared warm stories of African American community that I never experienced. The life of poor people is not all violence and crime and misery.

I'm not altogether sure the wealth and privilege was the most valuable thing to Dido, respect, dignity, fairness and honor should be expected by every human being on the planet no matter the law of the land. One should never just get 'used 'to unfair treatment...never.

QofH3arts

[–] jacelle 10 years ago

Material wealth doesn't absolve the fact that she was still treated as an outsider in her home of all places.

Besides the dining restriction her family also assumed that she's end up an old maid and attempted to delegate her as the "Grounds Keeper" of the estate by passing the keys onto her. They didn't think that any man worth anything in their circles could consider Dido for marriage. They constantly reinforced that she was "less than" them. (Like it was a valid and universal fact.) Imagine being treated this way by those that you trust and are kind and loving to you.

That family was conflicted.

Yes, they didn't physically abuse her;but,there was emotional abuse even though I don't think that her family saw it that way. They said that they loved her;but, that doesn't mean that she felt accepted and like a true member of the family.

Thankfully she met Danivier who regarded her as his equal. Most of the other men saw her as an exotic plaything.

A closed mouth gathers no foot.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] purplish-1 10 years ago

When she was turning down Ashford, she said herself that she had it better than other minorities in the time period: "though I cannot claim even a portion of the misfortune of those who I most closely resemble." She knows she had it well. But that still doesn't mean it didn't hurt to be treated like a second class member of the family. Especially since she herself did absolutely nothing wrong. She was just as much a lady as her cousin Elizabeth. It was all about skin color, and it's not like that's something she can control. I can see how that can be painful (being punished for something that you shouldn't have, and can't even control if you wanted to), and I can see where anyone would sympathize.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] dba741 10 years ago

No, I didn't find it hard to sympathize with her at all.

Being classified as "other" and being excluded from recurring activities in which your loved ones participate is painful in any century, not just the 21st.

[–] Sibyla01 9 years ago

Mulatto or not mulatto, she was anyway illegitimate, and still in much, much better position than other illegitimate offsprings then. She had wealth, she was accredited, she could marry into a titled family. Yes, I can´t pity her, she was quite well off.

[–] jane_bront 9 years ago

There's more to being a part of a family than being fed and given a lot of money or someone tolerating a "marriage on paper" to you for that money. Dido wasn't barred from eating at the table when other whites outside the family came to visit because she was illegitimate. It was because she was black. The white society in general that she lived in thought of her and treated her as inferior to all other white people, even with all that money - and there was no escape from that because there were no other kind of people around. Sure, she was better off than a black slave or anyone living in abject poverty but she was still despised in various degrees by almost everyone around her except her immediate family - and you could see that even they felt shades of the same when her father first brought her to them. This same family bowed to the societal prejudice against their own granddaughter/niece by mistreating her in that way. It's possible the OP sees this as a minor thing but little things can mean a lot and this did.

I'm glad she found some happiness and apparently married "an exception to the rule." Other than that she would have been a well-fed lonely woman mostly unwelcome anywhere that even other rich or poor white Englishwomen, who were little more than chattel themselves, were allowed to go or do - just because she lived among people who measured her humanity by their own opinions about how she looked and where she came from.

I think the OP indicated that she should have gotten used to the "minor" slights she was subjected to and thus not cared too much since she was so much better off than lots of other people. The only thing she would have gotten used to is a lifetime of being a social pariah who'd most likely never starve to death, giving her years and years to enjoy her "privileged" status in solitude.

Big. Whoop.

[–] brnvillain 9 years ago

Wow, you went completely out of your way to not be empathetic to her situation because she is black. Very disgusting.

did anyone else find it hard to sympathize with Dido? *spoilers*

did anyone else find it hard to sympathize with Dido? spoilers