Primo
So why didn’t he die in the nanobots mist scene in Cuba? Was his DNA just not in the flash drive that the scientist had? Or was he out of range of the nanobots mist? Either way that’s pretty fucking messy.
shareThe scientist changed it before hand. Originally Spectre wanted the scientist to make the nanobot mist targeted to Bond, but he changed it (according to M’s plan) to target all Spectre agents instead. But M didn’t know the scientist guy was gonna double cross him and be working for Safin.
shareRight but wouldn’t Primo be included in the nanobot mist? He was a part of spectre. Also it was Safins plan to wipe out spectre, not M’s.
shareIt WAS M’s plan and Safin knew and was okay with it, as he wanted Spectre dead too. Considering that Primo eventually was shown to work with Safin maybe he was already a double? The movie isn’t so clear on that.
sharePlease show me the line of dialogue that proves M knew about the nanobots mist plan in Cuba? Because M seemed pretty oblivious to what was going on. That would also have to mean he was behind Spectre kidnapping Oberchev which also doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. So that would mean he was collaborating with Spectre to kill them?
shareIt’s kind of unclear with certain spots, but Obruchev, the scientist guy, was essentially triple crossing. First, Spectre thought he was working for them, and used him to set up Bond in Cuba, but M was also using Obruchev and M had him switch the nanobot mix to kill all Spectre people instead.
This seems like something that was perhaps a long-term plan and Obruchev was acting as a sleeper agent at that science lab under both M and Spectre separately, Spectre having no idea that he was already under M’s thumb, and M not knowing Safin already had him as well. (Making him a triple-agent) This is explained in the lines of dialogue between Bond and M where Bond expresses his disapproval of M using Obruchev as he couldn’t possibly be trusted.
But anyways, it’s further shown that Obruchev was going against M and REALLY working for Safin, when Logan Nash shoots Felix and tried to kill Bond too. This showed the collusion of Ash to Obruchev and Safin. Obruchev himself even seems to have lost track of his true allegiances as he freely reveals a bit too much to Bond and Felix before Ash is unmasked as the villain that he is.
As far as Primo surviving Cuba, it’s unclear if he’d already defected from Spectre to Safin or not. I’d have to watch again, but it would only make sense that he wasn’t included in that anti-Spectre nanobot mixture as he survived coming into contact with Bond, and we know Bond coming into contact with Spectre agents would kill them (Blofeld).
A bit of messy storytelling, but a lot of Bond films are. I dare your to try to make sense of Octopussy.
No Spectre kidnapped him and they forced him to insert Bond Nanobots into the mist (I'm guessing they got Bond's DNA from the files they stole???), however Oberchev switched it without Primo noticing and changed it to Spectre nanobots
Please show me the line of dialogue that proves M knew about the nanobot mist plot?
And Octopussy did make sense, this doesn't.
Well, all I can say is watch No Time to Die again. I’ll agree it’s not particularly clear, especially the first time, but the way I explained is definitively what was going on. Obruchev even gets a phone call, I assume from a Spectre agent, tipping him off that he’s about to be fake-abducted.
But I’d love to hear your explanation of Octopussy, because that’s the messiest Bond movie plot wise and quite a bit of it doesn’t really hold up to scrutiny. For one, why does Orlov smash the real faberge egg? And why on earth does Khan do business with Orlov at all? Did Orlov provide him with those counterfeit bill makers or whatever those were? Wasn’t he a successful enough smuggler of sorts with Octopussy? Doesn’t seem like incentive enough to cahoot with a random Russian general.
He got a call from Safin saying he’s about to be abducted, he was already in league with Safin
Orlov smashing the egg isn’t in itself a problem because he legitimately thought it was the fake but Kamal not telling him to stop is an issue. Kahn did business with him because Orlov was robbing the depository and giving him valuable jewelry that he was able to sell at auction. Kamal had guys making the fake jewelry, he would then give them to Orlov who put them in the depository. He was a successful smuggler as was Octopussy but he can’t just rob the depository, he needs someone who has access (Orlov).
Yeah, I think I remember it being Safin on the phone now, but the rest of my points still stand.
As far as Octopussy goes, why on earth would Orlov think that was a fake? It seems to be written into the script just so Khan can find the microphone. Him finding the mic does NOTHING to develop the plot as he already saw Bond as an enemy. So Orlov randomly calling the real egg a fake and smashing it just undermines everything else about what’s going on. Yeah, it makes sense what you say, but I still say it’s the messiest of Bond villain plots. And what exactly does Octopussy herself think is going on with Orlov giving over the jewelry? You’d think she wouldn’t be so naive to the bigger plot. I think the movie would have been way better if Orlov was the main villain as that whole sequence in Germany is the best section of the movie.
I still haven’t seen any evidence that M knew about the nanobots mist. I’ll ask again for evidence.
He thought it was a fake because Kamal probably told him that he ended up with the fake from the auction rather than the real thing, I am admitting this was poorly handled. Him finding the microchip caused him to tell Gobinda to “get Bond” because that means that Bond could be a secret agent and he has to know what his government knows. This means that Gobinda will find out Bond is not in his room and Kamal now has to arrange a manhunt to find him.
Octopussy probably cut Orlov in on a share of the profits from the auction, again this was never clearly explained but it’s logical.
Yes, that’s all logical except for Orlov smashing the egg. Considering how big of a deal they made about ONE of the pieces of jewelry you’d think Orlov smashing it wouldn’t be something they wanted. And Octopussy seems to have strangely shifting feelings about the Russian jewelry and even says something to Kamal Khan about not being pleased because the jewelry was stolen in the first place.
As for No Time to Die, I don’t have the script or anything, but the scenes between Bond and M explain how M was using Obruchev.
No she was mad that the fake egg was stolen by 009.
Please show me the line of dialogue that confirms this.
M never approved or was aware that Spectre would be killed off in Cuba. Obruchev betrayed M in the beginning with the theft of Heracules and the nanobots
share