A guy can reconcile himself with his job without ever loving it
True, but if you understand the point SKyfall was making and the complete reversal of said point only a few months later in Spectre without any reason for the change is not good story telling.
Finding closure isn't the same as moving on. Bond found closure at the end of Quantum and Skyfall. Reconciliation. Not a solution. The circle hasn't been completed.
Finding closure to your issues is just that. CLOSURE. Craig tried to leave MI6 multiple times, only to return because of his sense of duty and his acceptance of his role as an agent. But all of a sudden, in SPectre, Craig has reverted back to not learning about love, not learning about his career and his role. He;s already proved to be much more than just an assassin but Spectre paints him that way and makes him look at his career in the most depressing way, only to present a new solution of him leaving to gain "life".
Skyfall was telling us that M bringing Bond into MI6 was the best thing and Craig realized and accepted that at the end. That's why he was ready for work 'with pleasure". But then Spectre, he all of a sudden hates his role again? Is a dead man walking? Finds himself the same as Mr White?
It's a choice between living his whole life looking over his back and moving on
That is what Spectre presented, yes, but by doing that, it had to ignore WHY Bond was a 00 in the first place and what satisfaction he was getting out of doing what he did. Those things were looked at in great detail in CR-SF but just dropped completely to make him more of a man in servitude to his job over a man who knows WHY he's doing it and why he feels compelled to keep going out there.
Now he was making a choice
And again, he made these choices already. Everything in Spectre has been explored and closed off, just done in a different way. He had every opportunity to leave after Skyfall, but chose to continue and even smiled, looking forward to the bright future ahead. But in Spectre, the future is grim and depressing. WHY??? Why the sudden shift? Because the main baddie was someone he grew up with??
Think about it, and that convo on the train.
"Ive never stopped to think about it"
"What if you stopped"
"I don't know"
What do you mean you don't know, Bond? You "stopped" in CR and "stopped" in Skyfall and it was horrible both times. Ended super badly. How come he doesn't bring any of this up to Swain? How come we see Vesper numerous times but Bond doesn't seem to care for her anymore?? All of a sudden, she's some distant,who cares memory and he's madly in love with swain, so much so, that he feels a life with her is going to work out? That's not bringing anything "full circle", it's just vaguely mentioning events that this time, end on a happy note.
Who's strangling the cat?
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varunthedragon-931-766034
8 years ago
1. The choice was made at the very end. There is one very clear reason:love. After Vesper, Madeliene was the only one of his girlfriends who questioned his way of life despite understanding it. She was the only one since Vesper that he had strong feelings for. Love can overrule the strongest logics.
2. Skyfall was never about Bonds job. It was about his relationship with M. It was about his dilemma regarding Ms tendency to treat her agents like pawns. Spectre was the first time since Casino Royale that Bond ever thought seriously about quitting. Even in Quantum, quitting was never on his mind since he'd long since reconciled himself. Also, as I pointed out, this was the first time since Casino Royale that he found someone like Vesper, a girl who was not easily taken in by his charm and could potentially form a real long-term relationship with him.
3. He sort of discussed Vesper when he said "there's no choice. Not for me". When does a man change himself? Usually when he desires something and change is the only way to get it. He had to choose between his job and Madeliene. He chose the latter. If he had killed Blofeld, that would've been lost to him. It's as simple as that.
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ActionJunkie007
8 years ago
Love can overrule the strongest logics.
It sure can, but you have to think, if he had a deep love with Vesper, as shown in CR/QOS, why does he appear to not give a *beep* about her anymore?? Even though she is a major part of the connection between all 4, and especially as you put it, bringing him "full circle"?
Skyfall was never about Bonds job. It was about his relationship with M.
Skyfall is about much more than just that. It's actually one of the smartest films in the series and is quite brilliant when you explore its deeper themes and subtext. The duality of his character and how it corresponds to what Silva is doing, on top of his relationship with M and how that relates to losing his parents, on top of what it means to be a 00 versus just being someone like Silva, who answers to no one but himself (well, at the time of release that is, before they ruined it by making him a Spectre lacky)
He sort of discussed Vesper when he said "there's no choice. Not for me".
How is that discussing her? All that's saying is he hasn't had a choice to keep doing what he's doing, but that's BS. He chose in QOS and SF and "choice" has been an underlining theme in all his films. What makes Spectre so odd to me is that he chose "life" over "death" but I keep getting back to how all of a sudden, he views his 00 career is such a depressing, lonely way. Especially since Skyfall JUST happened and that had him realizing the exact OPPOSITE.
If he had killed Blofeld, that would've been lost to him. It's as simple as that.
I disagree. Bond has already had Blofeld interfere with his personal life and kill all the women he loved, right?? So in what universe is keeping that guy alive a smart option when he plans to leave the service and head off with the women he loves??
I understand what Mendes and CO were trying to convey, but Im just saying it's a horribly misguided and frankly, non-sensical "ending" and conclusion for Bond to come to. If they left all the previous missions out, it could have worked, but you have to simply ignore what development Craig already went through to make it work.
Who's strangling the cat?
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varunthedragon-931-766034
8 years ago
Your arguments have more to do with your preferences and expectations than anything objectively wrong with the script.
1. He does care about Vesper but you gotta remember she "betrayed" him. It's a festering wound that's never quite healed. At the end of Casino Royale, he says "the bitch is dead" for this very reason. Would you prefer Bond mentioning her every other line like a drama queen? He's a man and reacts like a man
2. Much as I loved Skyfall, at the heart of it, it's about Bonds relationship with M. It revolves around that. Right from her ordering Eve to "take the bloody shot" to Bond and the new M. Silva is one of Ms victims. Betrayed by her, he seeks to undo everything she stands for. This tests them limits of Bonds own loyalties. Symbolism and the "new vs old" argument aside, that's the crux of the story. The main driving force and the essence. Remove the glitter and this is what you get.
3. He didn't let Blofeld go free, did he? He let him get arrested instead of "of "finishing" it like Blofeld said. In short, he was being the better man.
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varunthedragon-931-766034
8 years ago
Also, it definitely brings the story full circle when he faces a very similar dilemma to Vesper, ends up saving the girl this time and makes a public and conscious choice to quit that's accepted by people around him. He accomplished what he couldn't in Casino Royale.
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