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How is this movie considered as revival of New Wave Cinema?


The only New Wavish element was that it was shot in black and white. I found this Baumbach's worst film, far worse than Margot at the Wedding which ironically he cowrote with his then wife Jennifer Jason Leigh. Not a good idea to cowrite with his lovers! I've never found Grega Gerwig pretty or a great actress and only liked her in the Duplass Brothers film Baghead which she was funny in. I don't get the appeal of her at all. Not a hater, but definitely did not enjoy this film, care about any characters and there is no artistic Merritt to call it New Wave influenced. Just shallow dialog and a no message. Doesn't have to be a traditional structured plot but it needed a story that meant something or at least entertaining.

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[deleted]

I cannot say about other thing, but she is gorgeous in this....

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Of course it has ideas in it..... I reprint this post from another thread.

Ok, so here is my explanation in a nutshell.

The audience is set up to feel superior to Frances. She makes dreadful decisions, crowned by her ridiculous trip to Paris. Lots of other bad decisions too, but you get the idea. Even a total shmo at this point will feel superior to Frances. "Get a real job" you might scream at the screen. Or even "save your money."

Frances is particularly set apart by Sophie, who has a good real job, and acts responsibly.

As the story moves along though, you realize the one you thought was practical and well-grounded behaves like a lot of women behave. She gradually begins to tolerate her boyfriend, accepts his flaws (even though the thing about coming in her face is demeaning.) She keeps secret, from her best friend, all kinds of important decisions. Is she ashamed?

She ultimately quits that responsible, good job to move to Japan with Patch. Like a lot of women do. She winds up hating Japan, hating her life, and maybe even hating Patch. She misses her life with Frances.

So Frances is the one who gets our easy derision, but really none of her decisions were life-changing. Meanwhile, the realistic, grounded character who has our respect is living a lie.

In the end, Frances comes to terms with the admin job, gets studio time, and finds her moment looking across the room at her 'person.' It is bittersweet because the stupid decisions she made held her back, but at the same time were easily reversed.



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The new wave influence wasn't just because it was in black and white. A lot of the music (not the pop) was obviously like some of the French New Wave films, the camera techniques as well as the overall 'spirit' of it. I found this film to be similar to Jim Jarmusch's work with a little bit of Woody Allen thrown in.
I liked the film. Really does a film have to have a particular 'message' to be enjoyable? I don't think so but to each his own.

I'll tell you in another life when we are both cats.

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Tigerbos wrote:

"A lot of the music (not the pop) was obviously like some of the French New Wave films"

Not just "like" some of the New Wave, but actually borrowed directly from.
E.g. The scene where Frances dances along and across the streets in a series of cut together pirouettes uses classic music from Truffaut's "Les Quatres Cents Coups" (500 Blows).

That's where I turned the film off.
I thought that went beyond homage to outright theft as a short cut to cool.


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I stand corrected. Thanks! I've seen 500 Blows but it's been awhile.
Sorry you didn't like the film though. I thought it was sort of cool.





A lot of alliteration from anxious anchors placed in powerful posts!

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I am sure it's 400 blows :) but this movie, which I quite liked, reminded me more of Woody Allen films. I think social problems and political commentary influenced a lot of New Wave films, and this movie is lacking this.

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Also, it occurred to me that a big part of New Wave was the seeming spontaneity. And the film felt very spontaneous. But I am not sure if this could be considered a true revival.

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lol You are right! It's 400 Blows! I enjoy Woody Allen films and I felt there was a strong correlation between this film and some of his 70's/80's work - and you are right, the film did lack social issues and political commentary! I still enjoyed it though!:)

That was all rather thrilling. Anything more cinematographic could scarcely be imagined.

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I'm curious what you consider New Wave because as far as I know, thin plots are prevalent in New Wave cinema. I definitely thought the editing style and dialog had a New Wave vibe as well, and the whole movie revolves around Frances going through an existential crisis which is a common theme.

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Yeah, thinking about it, you're right.

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I assume the reference here is specifically to French New Wave, and not Italian or for that matter other art house films from the fifties and sixties, where specifically Ingmar Bergman's work would come to mind.

I do not have much familiarity with Godard, but am very familiar with Truffaut's work, and consider myself a real fan of his. I think his classic new wave film, in the sense it was most emblematic of the experimental aspects of French New Wave, was not the earlier 400 Blows or the later Jules and Jim, two of his most well known films, but Shoot the Piano Player, done between those two. Shoot the Piano Player very much came to my mind while watching Frances Ha. You had the existential searching in a mostly urban society, with occasional asides, in that case to the country and the main character's childhood home and dysfunctional brothers instead of Sacramento and dysfunctional family. The crises of relationships that ended, of perceived betrayals and even of seriocomical behaviors, were common to both. I am sure Brumbach must have seen Shoot the Piano Player.

But back to Bergman, there are decided elements of his work in Frances Ha, and Brumbach and Greta Gerwig took this film to a Bergman festival this past year in Faro, Sweden, no doubt in conscious homage to his influence. While Bergman's masterpiece Persona is a different sort of film, not the least because unlike Shoot the Piano Player it mostly takes place in an isolated setting devoid of social interactions beyond those of the small number of characters in the film, there are obvious parallels.

First of all in Persona the primary dynamic involves a search for authenticity in the being with others as occurs between the two main characters, played by Bibi Andersson and Liv Ullmann. While these two do not start out as friends, as are Sophie and Frances, friendship as a social interaction is explored. But more to the point is the dynamic of caring for others conflicting with differences in personal desires and differences, with a subtext of disappointment, even anger and the potential for violence, present as well.

In fact the central point of Frances Ha I think is that there is a limit to how much authentic meaning can be appreciated, obtained if you will, by interaction with others, at the same time we yearn for it as the primary means of finding such authentic meaning. This thematic aspect of Frances I think is rather directly and obviously shared with Persona.

Not that Persona is the only film Bergman did that influenced this one. The Passion is another, and even some parts of Hour of the Wolf echo in Frances Ha.

In short I do think Frances Ha was influenced by French New Wave, specifically Truffaut, but also by Bergman.

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Its Baumbach

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This is a thread that would be perfectly at home coming out of the mouths of those supporting characters in Frances Ha. Maybe thats the most insightful thing about this film makers work. Its all *beep* and you just have to do what you like if its french new wave or new american cinema or a disney animation.

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Sameul,

Your post was all beep and nothing more.

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Its Samuel

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This movie also "borrowed" Georges Delerue's music from 1966's Le Roi de Coeur and name-dropped Jean-Pierre Leaud for no good reason. I must admit, I found nothing compelling or engaging here.

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"I must admit, I found nothing compelling or engaging here."

Your indy-hipster card is hereby revoked. Seriously though, not a bad film per se IMO, but quite average.

Comparing this film to the French New Wave classics is quite absurd, but I'm sure some of those films also deserved to be thrown into the dust pail of history. Yes, the cinematography was quite good and Greta is a good actress, but I can't say too many more positive things regarding the film.

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Watch the Criterion bonus materials where Baumbach discusses this very subject with Peter Bogdanovich. I enjoyed this movie very much, whether it is an homage or not. On it's own merit. Greta Gerwig is a gift.

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This movie reminded me of the classic comedy Rushmore, but not nearly as well done. Rushmore has better music, dialogue, characters, story and it's even in color.

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