MovieChat Forums > Parkland (2013) Discussion > Having Fun With Lee Harvey

Having Fun With Lee Harvey


Let's see if we can find out the proof that Lee Harvey Oswald really was the lone nut that he was and have a little fun along the way.

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What people don't know about this whole story is how UNBELIEVABLY guilty Lee Oswald acted after the death of President Kennedy. That part is never discussed in crazy conspiracy literature because it, more than anything else, is the whole essence of the case. The movie "JFK" never talks about it--and if they do, rather, they gloss it over and lie about it. Here is what Lee Oswald did during and after the most notorious crime in the history of the world. Just see if this sounds like some very smart CIA agent, or maybe someone like a "Manchurian Candidate" brainwashed killer. Just see if this seems a little bit like OJ Simpson fleeing in a White Bronco.

Lee Harvey Oswald, a "man" who is absolutely the biggest political aficionado in Dallas works at a building. His whole life up to that point has been a failed attempt to prove to the world that he is smarter than everyone else in it--especially politically. When he moved to New Orleans and created a club (he's the only member) that is involved in more voicing his opinion on politics than anything active. He moves to Russia to show all the capitalists that have bullied and picked on him that communism is better. He tries to get his name in the paper everywhere he goes for his POLITICS. At parties, he talks about politics. At home, he talks about politics. He writes in his dyslexic, crazed, diary about politics. Politics, politics, politics. In fact, we know now he's even tried to kill two political figures at this point in his life (Tricky Dick Milhouse Nixon and General Walker).

That same guy is now working in a building, with the whole world laughing at him--and guess what? The president, the most powerful man in the world, is going to be riding by 100 feet from him. Have you ever seen a president in person? I haven't. A man who loves politics as much as Lee Oswald is going to have JFK drive right by him...and he decides to spend that time alone, in the lunchroom, drinking a Coke? Exsweeze me? That is the line of logic that conspiracy theorists want you to believe. The President routinely speaks in Aspen, about 40 minutes from where I live. I don't go see him. But if he was literally, going to be driving down my street, at lunchtime no less, do you think I'd at least go out and wave to him? Obviously. Oh, but of course, you say, Oswald didn't like Kennedy politically. That's debatable at best and just wrong at worst. And anyway, it's not like political assassins looking to make a name for themselves don't usually just take whatever target of opportunity presents itself or anything. No matter, wouldn't you STILL at least go see what the president is all about if you're a normal person? I can think of no President I disagree with more strongly than Barack Obama. If he was driving down my street, would I not at least go out and wave and show my respect and maybe see what all the fuss was about? Absolutely. Everyone would. Everyone that is, except the suicidal wife beater making $1.25/hour, who loves politics, defected to the Soviet Union, pulled out a gun in the Cuban Embassy in Mexico, threatened to blow up the FBI office in Dallas for bothering his wife who regularly practices with his rifle, told every communist he could about what little secrets he had as a Marine. That guy is going to be eating his lunch when the President drives by. The guy who's actions suggest his classmates probably voted him, "Most Likely to be a Tower Shooter, 1955"...that guy doesn't care at all about what's going on outside.

The shooting occurs. 9/11 and Pearl Harbor have just occurred right outside the building where you work. That happens every day. People are running, women are screaming, you ABSOLUTELY heard shots being fired. If he really was in the lunchroom, he still would have heard it. Men--war veterans--are all crying outside. So, what do you do if you're Lee? Do you wait around see what is going on so that you can tell your estranged wife later and people you know at a party? Do you wait around to maybe tell your kids one day about that crazy day at work when the president went by? Do you wait around and see if you have any more work for the rest of the day? No. No. No and double no. An officer sees you, practically sticks his gun in your ribs and is ready to arrest you but your boss vouches for you and they leave. What do you do then? Well, I can tell you what you would NOT do. You wouldn't flee the scene without asking more questions or finding anything more out. Your boss has just said to you, "The president has been shot". And.........you just take off? What? That actually makes sense to you mouth-breathing conspiracy thinkers? Is your meth pipe hot to the touch?

Just to keep score, out of every person who worked in the building that is now being sealed off as the place where the assassin may still be hiding, Lee Oswald is the ONLY one who isn't there when they take a roll call. He's the only one who leaves Dealey Plaza at all. And he did it in a hurry. Maybe he was missing Price is Right, you don't know. Don't laugh. When As the World Turns is on, I like to leave the world when it's turning right there in front of me if the episode is really good.

As you're leaving a reporter stops you and says, "Jesus, I need a phone now! I'm a reporter and the president has been hit!" You blow him off kind of, and you just take off...because...why exactly? Oswald does what? Thank God he's at least got a plan. For a minute he was looking kind of suspicious. He then gets on a bus, takes it for 100 yards, gets off, and grabs a stopped cab. Why grab a bus for 100 yards? It has nothing at all to do with seeing how much bus fare costs to Mexico. For a man who has $206 to his name cab fare is a very expensive purchase. No mind. Oswald pays and goes back to his home (which is really a 8x12 closet with a bed because being a government spy pays so well clearly). He goes to his rooming house. He changes his clothes. That's not at all the way a murderer who wants to avoid being ID'd as the man at scene of the crime acts. No siree. That's completely normal behavior. He leaves after being there for about 3 minutes. Up to this point it's looking like he might be acting in a manner that...I dunno...maybe...hypothetically...could potentially...be construed as perhaps...what's the word?..."suspicious". Well, it's okay, people make mistakes all the time. I guess it's no big deal. I mean it's not like he stopped and grabbed a gun or anything.

He did what?

Yes, he really did. He says later that, "You know how boys are with guns--I just grabbed it". Oh, that clears things up. God, I was worried you'd have a vague answer, Lee. For a second there it looked kind of like you're a wanted man leaving town!

Now walking towards a bus stop that will ultimately have a stop at the Mexican border, Lee matches the description now going out over the radio of a man wanted in the JFK murder. We won't even get into the fact that he walks right past the scene of the murder of a policeman that later FOUR witnesses ID him as committing. Let's be fair. Let's give the conspiracy crowd every benefit. Four people make mistakes all the time when it comes to what they see when they see a policeman gunned down in broad daylight. Totally honest mistake there, I'll wager. After all, he's got nothing to hide, it's not like he takes his jacket off and throws it under a parked car as he's getting away. When we're all done with our jacket, we just throw it away.

Now, as he's walking around town on his little stroll...can we stop and ask why it's a little odd that he's even walking around for a little stroll anyway? Now, people take walks all the time. That's not really crazy behavior or criminal. When 9/11 was happening and you were watching the reports on CNN as the towers were on fire, you totally just wanted to just get up, grab a gun and go for a walk. Who doesn't think like that on one of the three biggest days in US history a walk is important to take?

It's not at all suspicious either when he stops and looks inside a shoe store in a manner where he turns his head to avoid being seen by the cop cars racing up and down the street. But, hey, poor Lee has had a rough day. He needs to unwind. Like everyone else gathering around radios and televisions, Lee asks "Is he alive?", right? He doesn't? What!? Matter of fact, he cares so much about what has just happened, that he decides to do what you'd normally do in that instance...which is...duh, of course you want to pay to go to the movies! Oh, yeah, that's right! Who doesn't? That's normal behavior. I'm sure you're like me and when you want to go to a movie theater, you just go buy a ticket to a movie and join it in progress, right? You don't say to yourself, "Self, Rambo VII is playing at 12:40 and Dirty Nasty Girls 18 is playing at 12:00, I think if I hurry, I can catch that new Nasty Girls movie--the critics all say it could win Best Picture this year if Iron Man 8 doesn't win". No, you just join it in progress like all of us do.

Thank God Lee Oswald never lost his composure and did something completely weird. He bought a ticket and went to a movie, we all do that.

Bought? Why buy a ticket when you can just sneak past that stupid clerk who is huddled around a radio in tears wondering if her president is going to be okay? That's exactly what Harvey does. (Incidentally, who in poo-perfect hell names their kid Lee Harvey? If you want your kid to grow up to be voted most likely to scale a building with an Uzi, name him Lee Harvey. Lee Harvey? That's the best name this loving fool's mammy came up with? What, was Orville Harold Cleon Redneck III taken? I digress)

Anyway, so, he sneaks into a movie theater. With a gun. After the president is at the hospital with a massive head wound. And cops are racing down the street. After he threw his jacket on the ground. And a cop has just been shot dead up the street a couple hundred yards.

Where was I? Oh, yeah...

That's got to be a hell of a great movie to want to drop everything and go into it. Dirty Nasty Girls 18 was good but it didn't really have that gritty acting that volumes 16 and 17 captured. Actually, it wasn't a porn flick he went to. It was much, much worse. It is bad. Really bad. It was "War is Hell" starring Van Heflin. Van Heflin apparently came in second for: "World's Worst Name" behind "Lee Harvey". It is so bad, if you were going to water-board me or make me watch that movie--I think I'd say, "Well at least water-boarding won't kill me--this movie is 50/50."

Well of course, any one of 19 people who saw something shady Oswald did in that 15 minute period who is now looking for him alerts the police. A shoe salesman leads him into the theater and points him out.

Again, imagine you're Harvey. You have nothing to hide. You went to a movie because you figured work was done for that day. That's honestly what he told police he was doing. But, you have nothing to hide. You forgot to pay for your ticket--big deal. Just pay the $.75 and then you can get back to your awesome movie. They won't mind. That's what you'd do, right?

Here is what Lee does. See if somewhere in this time line of events over the next 45 seconds is something that is the mark of a man who has just committed the most shocking act in American history, maybe killed a policeman, and now figures he's going to die, fry, quit or fly. Maybe something in here will jump out at you:

1. When the lights come on in the theater with 12 other people, he is the only one that jumps up out of his seat. Seeing there are 9 bajillion cops at every exit (cops tend to get a little case of the Chinese Red Anus after one of their own is laying dead in the street with an unsymmetrical, gushy head and four holes in him. They are just weird like that) he thinks better of it and sits back down. But, you aren't worried. You're just a family man. You rub your wedding ring...oh, wait, my bad, he took his wedding ring off and put it in a coffee cup before leaving the house that morning.
2. As a cop approaches him with a gun, and says, "Hey you", Oswald mutters, "Well, this is it".
3. He stands and sucker punches one of them in the face. (Oh, it's on like Donkey Kong now, boy. The joke used to be that in Dallas they didn't know what was worse: killing Kennedy or hitting a cop).
4. In the scuffle he grabs his revolver. That same revolver that boys just take into movie theaters all the time.
5. As they start fighting, he points and pulls the trigger at another cop. Just for the scorecard, that is now the fourth person that Oswald has tried to shoot in just under one hour. Two are dead, one is clinging to life. That's roughly one person every 15 minutes. Ted Bundy thinks you're on a bit of a kill streak here, Leo. When Ted Bundy goes, "That motha-effa is crazy!", that means you're a little bit psychotic.
6. The gun misfires because another officer managed to jam the mechanism.
7. Now being handcuffed, what do you think Lee screams to the crowd of onlookers? I don't know but I can tell you that his actions indicate to me that he is absolutely NOT at all trying to resist arrest so clearly he would NOT say, "I am not resisting arrest!". You can imagine my shock when, like you, I found out for the first time that he screamed, "I AM NOT RESISTING ARREST!".

Wait, he does? Oh, Jesus, this is getting good. Well, gosh, you can forgive me if later on in the day when he whines, "I'm just a patsy!", it doesn't exactly sound like it's coming from the lips of Martin Luther King or Diogenes. If he was really just a patsy, that would make him exactly the first murderer in the whole history of western civilization to say that he's innocent. When a "man" being charged with murder says he's just a patsy, conspiracy logic dictates that he HAS TO be telling you the truth. He just does! Think of how much money we can save by just having a judge ask a murderer if he's innocent or guilty.
Judge: "Billy Bob, did you shoot Donny Joe in the face"?
Billy Bob: "I'm just a patsy!"
Judge: "Well, s*&*, that's good enough for me."
Lawyer for Donny Joe: "Your honor, I think maybe we need to see some evidence first".
Judge: "The man says he's innocent, counselor. He's clearly innocent!"
Family for Donny Joe: "Your Honor, what about the 15 witnesses who saw him make Donny Joe squeal like a piggie and sodomized him to death with a fiddle?"
Judge: "Lady, a guy doesn't say he's innocent of something unless he is. Jesus, what planet are you people from? Of course I have to let him go! We can't convict an innocent man when he says he didn't do it!"

For pretty much every one of the 10,000 days of his pathetic life that Lee Oswald spent on this earth, he always had two thoughts.

First, he was convinced that he was absolutely smarter than you--especially when it came to politics. If he were arguing about the debt crisis in Madagascar with a man who had a doctorate in Madagascarian Economic Policy Decisions, he would tell the man in no uncertain terms that he was right and the other guy was wrong because he knew every part of the issue because he'd read Marx once in his life.

Second, whatever 99.99% of the people thought was good, he thought sucked major donkey balls. Because the Marines he was stationed with bullied him and hated him and thought he was a giant cleft a&&-wipe, he naturally rebelled against them by openly telling other countries anything he could about what he knew about the Marine Corps in order to maybe get them killed or hurt in a war. Because they and virtually everyone with a brain in the country they represent thought that capitalism was better than communism, (the idiots) he rebelled by being a communist. If everyone in the world was a Marxist, he'd have been a capitalist who spouted Adam Smith. That same "man" who hated everyone not named Fidel Castro (he did after all try and name his child...female...after the man) was a violent political junkie.

What I just wrote was 100% true. The difference is, you won't find any part of that in any conspiracy book or movie because it's easier to say he's innocent and act like you're a rebel because you believe the government killed JFK. But if you still believe that there was a conspiracy and he was just a patsy, ask yourself this: does that sound like normal behavior for some trained super spy government assassin? Wouldn't a trained killer say, "Okay, cop coming at me, make no suspicious movements and if he does stop me, go into ninja mode and sneak away if he doesn't believe my story".

As long as we are making up jobs that don't really exist, why couldn't he have been a government sponsored ninja? That's basically what Oliver Stone claimed he was.

To wrap this up: 75% of the people REALLY believe that a 23-year-old, suicidal, government paid ninja named Lee Harvey, who doesn't have three nickels to rub together to make a fourth, who beats his wife regularly, actually wrote down that in 20 years he'll be "Prime Minister of America" and defected to Russia because he really thought it was going to be better than America, was the person that, depending on who you ask: the CIA, the Secret Service, the KGB, the FBI, martians, or Castro, entrusted with far and away, the biggest murder in the whole history of the world (no joke). Does that seem logical to you? Or does that maybe sound like 75% of the people are just uniformed a little bit about what he was really all about? Whether 99% of the people believe it or 1% of the people believe it means absolutely nothing. Not diddly-mule pi$$. For 2000 years 75% of the people KNEW--absolutely KNEW--that the Earth was flat. It doesn't matter what people think. What people think and what really happened are two entirely separate things. Only one person killed JFK--to the exclusion of every other person on the planet. And, sorry for all the fans of great who-done-its and spy thrillers, but it was the guy that everyone in power in our mean, stupid, awful government says it was.

If you really want to blame your government or the CIA or FBI for this, blame them in the right way. Say that they were incompetent, not involved. We all saw that on 9/11. The really crazy people like Charlie Sheen and Alex Jones will always believe that the 9/11 victims are in a bunker under Denver International Airport. The key to this whole case is keeping those people away from the people who are undecided about the case.

Final thought: Doesn't it SEEM a little bit more likely, now that you know the rest of the story, that some crazy little communist killed John Kennedy--even if it harder to swallow?

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I really don't want to argue with you; your posts are mean-spirited and they exhaust me. I will make a couple of points and perhaps someone smarter and stronger than I am will carry on.

If Oswald worked for the CIA or ONI, that would explain why he was able to move to Russia and come back again with such ease. Ordinary people could not do that. It would also explain why he had the "Fair Play For Cuba Committee," not as a product of a diseased mind, but following the instructions of his handlers. He did draw attention to himself, deliberately, hoping to attract the interest of pro-communist sympathizers. If he was such a nobody, why was he filmed handing out flyers in New Orleans? Ostensibly it was so that stevedores working at the nearby docks could be identified as anti-Castro or pro-Castro. Guns were being shipped from South America and the pro-Castro stevedores needed to be kept away from those ships.

Oswald did not go out to see the motorcade because he had been instructed to wait to hear from his handler. He knew there was a plot to kill Kennedy. However, being undercover, he could not say anything to anyone. He followed instructions until he heard that the President had been shot. A number of people left the TSBD at the same time as he did. Since he had not heard from his handler, his next step was to try to meet up with a contact at the theater.

I don't believe he could have gotten anywhere near Officer Tippit in the time frame, since Officer Tippit was shot at 1:10 and Oswald left his rooming house at about 1:03. I'm not even going to address that.

Guessing his shirt may have been dirty or sweaty from work? I don't see that as being sinister. He was probably starting to suspect that he was being set up by this point and was getting nervous, which is why he snuck into the theater without paying. He may have believed that the police would claim that he was resisting arrest, and would shoot him dead on the spot, which is why he called out. If the police intended to kill him right then and there, he did the right thing, because the police could not shoot him in front of all those witnesses. They had to figure out another way to eliminate him, and that's why Ruby was brought in.

If Oswald really wanted attention for killing Kennedy, he would have confessed.

Now I need to go take a shower after reading your post. I don't understand why you have to be so nasty.

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No you don't want to argue with me because all you have for "facts" are a bunch of of stupid hypothetical ideas that NEVER HAPPENED. And I'm sorry but you don't want to argue with me because: A. You can't without looking like a monumental idiot, and B. Everything you're talking about is a figment of your imagination. You have facts on one end and speculation and feelings on the other.

This is you: "...IF Oswald...maybe he did this...oh, and he was in the CIA."
This is real life: "Guy murders other guy. Guy tries to do something to cover it up. Guy gets caught".

You have to take a shower because anyone who actually believes the crap that you're spewing out there probably doesn't have hot water. I don't mean to be mean to be mean to you but I mean, listen what you're saying. You conspiracy people don't listen to anything. You believe one thing. It gets disproved. You say, "Here's something else". It gets disproved. At what point do you stop and say, "It is unbelievable how really crazy this crap I believe is"? You don't listen to anything else. You have Cyril Wecht and Groden spouting these generalizations in broad ways and it sounds like you know what you're talking about. When someone like me throws it back at you and makes you out for the idiots that you are, it stings like a b**** doesn't it? Well, that's what you get for lying to people for 50 years.

You have stevedores on a dock in New Orleans six months ago. What do you want for that, a junior G-Man badge? Oswald knew a guy that was in the CIA. OMFG!!! Even a conspiracy moron has probably met one person in his life that was hiding some secret. Does that argue with the facts of the case? This is a murder case that is so simple anyone who believes otherwise really ought to be sterilized if they've read the case. How many ACTUAL facts do you have that Oswald was in the lunchroom waiting for his handler? How many? I'm going to say exactly zero. How many FACTS do you have that Oswald couldn't have made it to the Tippit murder? I'm guessing zero. Hell, you say so yourself. "I don't believe..." Translation from DrGerbil speak: "I have no f&&&&& clue what I'm saying".

And I LOVE this "fact": A number of people left the TSBD at the same time as he did. Since he had not heard from his handler, his next step was to try to meet up with a contact at the theater.

Really? Well that explains why on the ACTUAL list for the roll call taken that day ONE name is missing. Don't take my word for it. You're the smart one--I'm just a goof. Google it and see the list for yourself.

If you think about your logic in the Texas Theater the whole case makes about as much sense as you do. "They didn't kill Oswald in the theater with all these witnesses in there".

No. They waited 48 hours and then murdered him in front of the entire world. I mean, you can count past 10, right? You do know 12 people in a theater is a smaller number than 100 million people on live TV? Think of the mobster/CIA guy who thought that one up: "See, what we'll do is we won't murder him in a dark theater when he's resisting arrest. That will look too fishy. We will kill him in the Dallas Police Department. No one will ever be on to us there". Jesus, dude, do you believe what you're saying?

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So much time and energy and faux rage devoted to pushing such LoneNut lies.

Fascinating.

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Non-sequiturs are delicious.

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Oh, I don't think it's "faux" rage, unless of course, this poster is a shill of some kind.

Either he's a shill, or he missed his rabies shot.

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Yes, there you go. I give you facts, you go with the "oh, he's just crazy", typical crap from you conspiracy people. Do you want to know which group in the JFK assassination has had the most lies, cover-ups, deceits, untruths and unsubstantiated material? IT IS YOU CONSPIRACY IDIOTS! The FBI, CIA, Secret Service, they aren't lily white, but compared to the crap you guys put out, they sure as hell are. Take any conspiracy book off your shelf and just look at it. I remember in "Rush to Judgement", Mark Lane has a picture of a guy at Dealey Plaza and he goes on national TV and claims that it is Jack Ruby in the crowd. He tells everyone that it's Ruby. Sure enough, five minutes later, he says that Ruby was laying CE399 on a stretcher in Parkland Hospital planting evidence. Which is it?!?! It comes out later as well documented that the "picture" of Ruby he was showing was a fake and he KNEW it was and he still used it.

So, I ask you, who is the fear monger? Who is the war profiteer? Oliver Stone loves to say the whole reason for the killing was to put Vietnam in motion. The government had to make money on Vietnam. Huh, that's funny. Because, if I recall correctly, Ollie, you made two movies about the war, and won three Oscars profiteering from it. So, who REALLY made money? For 50 years you guys have had the upper hand because you are seen as the great populist crusaders who are attacking middle-aged, white men who made the Warren Report. You guys are the cool ones.

That is what we deal with from you guys. Someone finally beats you at your own game of being louder, more obnoxious and more entertaining than you and suddenly you guys don't want to play any more? Suddenly you pansies are going to pick up your toys and leave the sandbox? Where is your intrepid research skill? Where is your reckless crusade for truth? Suddenly the facts--the ABSOLUTE facts, made by people that actually care about source notes and bibliography data--aren't there for you to lie about the case and you guys just say, "Oh, he's a nut", and then leave?

I'll tell you what, if you guys can find a DOCUMENTED, CREDIBLE, SOURCED book--with a bibliography and true information that Lee Oswald was in the CIA or knew anyone in it, I will shut up. I'll make this really easy for you. There are 9 bajillion books out there on the case from your point of view. I'll bet one of them has to have SOME fact for all this crap you're spouting. If you do, I will leave you the alone and you can go back to saying JFK was killed by mafia martians with the FBI's help.

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Oh, I don't think you're crazy. You're a vile liar with an agenda.

Stone made more money from two movies than was made off of the Vietnam war???

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Non-sequiturs are delicious.

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I will concede that you are louder and more obnoxious than I am.

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Now THAT's funny, coming from someone who's part of a movement that devotes virtually EVERY WAKING MOMENT OF THEIR LIVES to uncovering and proving conspiracy theories where there are no conspiracies.

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You are a dreamer, aren't you, soprismb-1. Unless you are a personal friend of Oswald, I just can't go along with your story. I'm still not sure who was involved, but I sincerely believe Oswald did not act alone. Yep, 100% sure.

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If you're 100% of something like the Kennedy case, that tells me more about you than it does the case. I'm not 100% sure of anything I haven't seen with my own eyes. If you're 100% sure of this case, I'd suggest that you, not the Warren Commission are coming from a position of having all the answers before the questions and not the other way around. Good science is asking questions, not looking for ways to bolster your answers.

Look, I don't begrudge you that. I really don't. In fact, your WHOLE idea is the conspiracy movement in a nutshell. There isn't a single piece of evidence. Not one. There isn't a single fact suggesting anyone OTHER than Lee Oswald killed JFK to the exclusion of all other people on planet earth. And yet, the conspiracy people all say, "It just doesn't FEEL right". It's facts against feelings. I can see how people would be taken in by conspiracies. They give tight narratives to a story that is very complex. They offer comfort. It's hard to accept a great man like Jack Kennedy was murdered in cold blood by some dyslexic nobody. It's a hard thing to come to grips with. But as John Adams said, "Facts are stubborn things". Ultimately you have to accept that EVERY fact in this case points one way. I can't say I wasn't a conspiracy guy for a time. But the more you read about it, you find two things:

1. Conspiracies don't work. People can't cover something up--least of all the greatest crime in the history of the world--without overlooking some part of it. Three can keep a secret if two are dead.

2. The Warren Commission actually did a very good job on a very tough job. If you actually read it, you see that it's the largest police investigation in the history of the world up to that time. Do you think the average FBI agent investigating the case was just automatically implicit because he was an FBI agent? When you become an FBI agent do you automatically cease to become a human being? All 1000 agents of the FBI went along with it? Say what you want of Earl Warren and his policies, I can't for one second argue that Earl Warren was anything but a man of absolutely unimpeachable character. Gerald Ford was an incompetent president largely BECAUSE of his terminal honesty. So, if we believe the Jim Garrison's of the world, Gerald Ford sat down with Warren and said, "Look, let's manipulate things this way". No way. Not a chance. If you believe that you haven't studied either man. The Warren Commission was chosen not because they wanted "yes men" or anything of the sort. They wanted men of absolutely exemplary character. And they did a fantastic job. With the 1960s technology they had to work with, they didn't "Rush To Judgment" or "Whitewash" anything. They simply took the facts--which are so overwhelming its laughable--and went from there.

So, look, I can appreciate you saying you're absolutely 100% sure there was a conspiracy. But I'd tell you to just TRY and read a book like Posner's and keep an open mind. I have probably 130 books on the case and in some of the conspiracy books are invaluable pieces of the story. I've tried to read them fairly. I'd suggest that if you're 100% sure of anything, you're clearly coming from a position that is hard to back up. Why don't you just start with asking a very basic question: if Lee Oswald didn't kill JFK, why did he then do what my original post says documents he did in the hour after the assassination? Just ask yourself why a seemingly innocent man murdered a police man (let's just cut the crap and return to real life: four witnesses saw it, he DID murder Tippit), run in a movie theater and act 148 shades of guilty? Start there and you might be like the rest of us: anything but 100% sure.

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I can think of no President I disagree with more strongly than Barack Obama.


I'm sorry, I stopped reading there. Did this soprismb-1 say anything interesting after that?

In reading other posts on this thread, no, not really. Carry on...

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"Into every life a little coffee must spill."

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Hey, at least the OP didn't say anything bad about Obama. He just said that he don't agree with him. He then went on to state that if Obama was in his home town he would gladly go out and wave to the President just out of respect. I think you ought to read his whole post jabberttp and you will discover that he brought up some good points. I read about three fourths of it. I will probably finish it later but I have some emails I need to answer first.

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I've read what others have said about him and his facts to know enough. And your first sentence above tells me you misread what he'd said.

A trained chimpanzee could also wave at the President, but that doesn't mean I should hang on his every word, er grunt, er utterance.

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"Into every life a little coffee must spill."

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Right...because that's how you win discussions on discussion boards. That's what the conspiracy theorists all do in a nutshell. You give them facts. You give it in a way that basically shows how stupid their ideas are. And the reply is.....wait for it.....call someone a troll, pull one part of the story (the least important part--my personal political beliefs), say something glib in retort, and then walk away thinking they've won. That's what passes for conspiracy logic. And the best part was, I actually ended up defending Obama anyway! I said, "Out of respect, I'd absolutely go see the president if he was passing down my street". What part of that means anything?

I mean, come on, jabbertp, that's the best you can do? That's what you can come up with? At least you admitted one thing: "I didn't read it..." Yeah, like the Warren Report, or the facts of the case or anything else, no doubt. You probably read an outdated 1964 copy of "Rush to Judgment" and suddenly you're 100% there was a conspiracy. Or, you saw Oliver Stone's movie. You didn't do a single piece of research on the case. You just said, "Impossible" and moved on.

Why don't you at least lay out where I'm wrong. You CTs are so effin' smart, why don't you guys put your arguments out there about where I'm wrong and then let's debate it. But don't just say, "He's a troll" and then give proxy to the idea you're quitting but you won by default. I'm here. If you guys have something interesting to debate--you know, like FACTS--then do it. Otherwise, I'm just going to assume that you guys are too afraid to be exposed and have to answer for your statements.

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Actually I merely saw one part of your post - and I wanted to highlight it. I've actually NOT seen Oliver Stone's movie NOR read Rush to Judgment.

I did watch JFK: The Smoking Gun and feel based upon what happened, there was no way Lee Harvey was the sole shooter.

That is all. I never claimed to be a "CT" (as you call conspiracy theorists) nor do I claim to be an expert.

I was born a little over a year after JFK was assassinated and ironically, for almost 20 years, I've lived pretty close to where he was assassinated.

But that also doesn't make me an expert, nor should it. Now what was your point again?

Oh yeah, you disagree with Obama...

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"Into every life a little coffee must spill."

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When did Oswald try and kill Nixon?? I know he tried to shoot Gen.Walker but Nixon?? What did I miss?

Boston and Philly love to slander us, but they don't have as many fans as us

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You didn't miss anything actually. It's mentioned in the Commission hearings, references below, at http://22november1963.org.uk/did-oswald-try-to-kill-richard-nixon

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It's been well-documented that when the pistol that ultimately killed Officer Tippit--Lee Oswald's pistol--arrived in the mail, Oswald put on a suit, got his affairs in order, told his wife what to do if he was killed or captured, and then said, he was going out to "have a look" at Nixon (who it was said was in town). She said, "Why do you need a pistol to go out and see him?" He said, "If I get a view of him, I'll shoot him." She argued with him and ultimately managed to trick him into going into the bathroom and then "locked" him in their for several hours until he apologized.

That sounds to me like someone who is clearly willing to kill ol' Milhouse. So, while he didn't ACTUALLY pick the gun up and point it at the man, it certainly wasn't for lack of trying.

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It's been well-documented that when the pistol that ultimately killed Officer Tippit--Lee Oswald's pistol--arrived in the mail, Oswald put on a suit, got his affairs in order, told his wife what to do if he was killed or captured, and then said, he was going out to "have a look" at Nixon (who it was said was in town). She said, "Why do you need a pistol to go out and see him?" He said, "If I get a view of him, I'll shoot him." She argued with him and ultimately managed to trick him into going into the bathroom and then "locked" him in their for several hours until he apologized.

That sounds to me like someone who is clearly willing to kill ol' Milhouse. So, while he didn't ACTUALLY pick the gun up and point it at the man, it certainly wasn't for lack of trying.


The Nixon story was found to be complete BS. The Warren Commission didn't even include it in the official report.

Nixon hadn't visited the Dallas area in 1963 prior to the week of Kennedy's assassination. Besides that, investigators found that there was no possible way that Marina could've locked Oswald in the bathroom since it could only be locked from inside.

Did Marina lie? Yes. The next question is what else did she lie about? Because of the Nixon whopper and Marina's contradictory testimony on other matters, the only thing that is certain is that Marina lacks credibility as a witness.

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The Warren Report stated that “Mr Nixon advised the Commission that the only time he was in Dallas in 1963 was on November 20–21, 1963. An investigation failed to reveal any invitation extended to Mr Nixon during the period when Oswald’s threat reportedly occurred” (Warren Report, p.188).

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Mr Rankin :Do you recall the bathroom, how the door closes? Does it close into the bathroom on Neely Street or from the outside in?

Mrs Oswald :I don’t remember now. I don’t remember. I only remember that it was something to do with the bathroom.

Mr Rankin :Did you lock him into the bathroom?

Mrs Oswald :I can’t remember precisely.

Mr Rankin :Do you recall how the locks were on the bathroom door there?

Mrs Oswald :I can’t recall. We had several apartments and I might be confusing one apartment with the other.

Mr Rankin :Is it your testimony that you made it impossible for him to get out if he wanted to?

Mrs Oswald :I don’t remember.(Warren Commission Hearings, vol.5, p.389)

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