MovieChat Forums > The Lifeguard (2013) Discussion > It's funny because if it were a man play...

It's funny because if it were a man playing the role


of a lifeguard courting a young teenage girl, this movie would be labelled pro-pedophilia. Haha I can't help but refer to that South Park episode "Nice.."

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Pedophilia? No, you mean Ephebophilia. Pedophiles like prepubescent children.


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you are correct that pedophilia would be the wrong term, however I agree with OP that it would be labeled as "Pedophilia". It is an extremely overused term.

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I thought about this while watching this movie sort of playing one with the genders reversed in my head as I watched things play out on screen, imagining Joseph Gordon Leavitt (a la 500 Days of Summer) as the lifeguard and, for some strange reason, Lorde as the "kid," and if the male lifeguard was played just as caring and well-intentioned as Kristen Bell's version of the character, I would feel the same as I do with things as they were in the actual movie - sort of uneasy but mostly ok with it.

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Just because you wish you could *beep* teenagers without people making you feel bad for it, doesn't mean it's the same situation, dude, sorry.
Men are at their sexual peak at 18. Women in their late 30ies. It's a biological fact.

If she was forcing him, it would still be rape. If she was his teacher, his boss, and was taking advantage of their situation, it would still be rape. It's not the case here.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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I'm sorry but no matter how you try and spin it she is still having sex with a child regardless of if you class that as pedophilia or not it's still morally wrong. And it would be seen massively different if a man did it. Strangely mainly only women are coming out supporting this film where as the guys can see it for what it is a middle aged adult taking advantage of a vulnerable child.

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I DO NOT condone or agree with the woman getting involved with a 16 year old--but there's no double standard here. Not when you consider the fact that American Beauty and Lolita are considered classics, and that Blame It On Rio is considered a light hearted cult comedy classic.

Feminism is the "radical belief" that women are people, and should be paid and treated equally.

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You are way off. I'm a man and I see it just like the kids father seen it. I forgot his exact words to Leigh's friend Mel, but I felt the same way. Make a big issue for the kid getting laid? He said something like that and he told her the boy had a bunch of other issues to deal with that were more important than him having sex. Besides I think his father saw Leigh as a better person even though she may have been out of bounds. I think some of these sexual situations have to be examined on an individual basis. I live in Canada and some of these sexual permission ages go as low as 14. Is that morally right? Probably not, but I think the law in some places see sexual assault and rape cases on a case to case basis. I remember a an 18 year old that had sex with his girlfriend who was almost 18 at the time. This was in Calif. and her parents called the police and had him prosecuted for rape. And that is what they called it at the time in Cali. Not statutory, but rape. He got 4 years and when he got to the Penitentiary he just about got killed for that charge until he actually showed the paperwork of what really happened. Is that rape? Not in my book. Once again it must be looked at on a case to case basis and I am a man so please don't speak for all me in your post.

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So if you had a 16 year old daughter who was having sex with a 30 year old man, you'd be ok with that? Or any willing 16 year old girl having sex with an guy 14 years her senior?

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That's not what the previous poster said or even implied.

But keep in mind - this "morality" is a pretty recent phenomenon. Historically, 16-year-old girls and even younger ones were commonly married off to older men ranging anywhere from 16 to 60.

Even today, in the more backward parts of the Muslim world, you still have child marriage. Recently there was that 12-year-old Afghan girl who was supposed to marry her parents' friend and it became international news when she ran away from home and made this speech about how she wanted to live a normal life and so forth.

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I understand it's not what he said but I was posing a question. Whenever a topic like this gets brought up, many always say "he's a young man. So what he was banging somone hotter and older. I'd let my son do it." But as soon as you ask if they'd let their daughter do it then it's "hell no! Girls aren't as horny as boys and can't control themselves" which in itself is sexist. If one thinks it's ok for a teen boy to sleep with an older woman but not a teen girl, then they're sexist.

_______
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I noticed that as of yet, you haven't gotten an answer to your question. That's typical. I've posed the same question in other forums and have gotten little or no response. There is, without a doubt a double standard, no matter how these guys want to spin it. Every one of these guys would want to kill the 29 year-old man who slept with their 16 year-old daughter. Most of the "men" probably wouldn't even be here on this board if the film was about an older man/young girl. No, this is the typical heterosexual male fantasy--the young boy being sexually initiated by an older, attractive woman.

You're right about the sexism. You know, girls/women aren't supposed to be sexually curious or God forbid, actually WANT to have sex. And if you show them a sexually aggressive woman, we'd be having a whole different conversation.

Let me take it one step further. What if it was a 29 year-old male lifeguard hooking up with a sixteen year-old boy? What would the response be if that were the premise of the film? Do I even need to ask that question?


Sister, when I've raised hell, you'll know it!

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Ever hear of "American Beauty" ?

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Big difference there, in American Beauty the star was 46 years old was married with kids and was going through a mid life crisis. We have already discussed the crazy stupid stuff hat people do when they have a midlife crisis. The events in the lifeguard are outside of that sphere.

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There was much less of an age difference between Kristen Bell and the boy and Kevin Spacey and the girl. Neither one of them was in the right; but lustfully fixating on a girl that you see at your daughter's assembly is beyond sick. Yes his wife was a cheating, verbally abusive jerk--if she had been his 25 year old secretary and his wife was cheating too, it wouldn't have been as bad. But a mid life crisis is no excuse for that sickness.

Feminism is the "radical belief" that women are people, and should be paid and treated equally.

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So what your saying is

There is no double standard

Yet...

It was "beyond sick" for Kevin Spacey's to lust after a 16 year old girl where he never actually has sex with her but it was ok for Kristen Bells character to actually have sex with multiple times a 16 year old child...

There is only one sick person here and that's the woman that's taking advantage of children and having sex with them. Not the 46 year old male that was dealing with a bitch of a wife who was cheating on him and going through a mid life crisis and never actually follows through with it.

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She's sick for having sex with a 16 year old? Seriously? Firstly, it would most likely be legal because the age of consent in most countries and in most states of the US is 16 years old and she was not a teacher or guardian. How anyone can watch this movie and think that the boy was in any way damaged from their relationship, I don't know? As his dad said to the teacher when she apologises for not 'protecting his son', "for what? getting laid?... he's had real problems... this thing with the lifeguard... things happen." There was obviously mutual attraction and a lot of chemistry, so they had a bit of fun, who cares? Although I wouldn't agree on him getting her pregnant I wonder if they'd have any issues like the teacher and her boring, unfit husband in their 'morally correct' and socially acceptable but clearly messed up relationship? I'd bet the kid could knock her up first shot!

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"that's taking advantage of children and having sex with them"

Come on, really? I'm not a man so I don't know how exactly works for them, but as far as I'm concerned it would take an erection for the act itself to happen. So, how exactly she took advantage since he was already excited and he was the initiator? I don't think there is much difference between a teenage boy having sex with a teenage girl and a teenage boy having sex with a women, and yes, I do have double standards for teenage girls and teenage boys, since biologically and psychologically the nature of things differ from gender to gender.

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You do know we don't have a whole lot of control over erections, yes?

Your body reacting to physical or visual stimulation is not really consent.

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Ever hear of "American Beauty"?

You mean the same American Beauty where the main protagonist did not actually have sex, realized how wrong it would have been, and sought remorse? Never mind the fact the young girl tried to seduce him, or the fact he was murdered because Ricky's father thought he was having a homosexual affair with his high school-aged son.

That's a little bit different than a 29 year old seducing a 16 year old, having sex dozens of times, including a public pool, with TWO other adults having knowledge it was happening and neither did anything, and the wrong-doer never even admits wrong even after it was all over.

In fact, the script of American Beauty even reads a little differently too.

I don't know how much more ignorant you can be.

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Ricky's father thought he was having a homosexual affair with his high school-aged son.
I thought he was murdered becuase Ricky's father was himself a homosexual and couldn't come to terms, after exposing his secret, that Kevin Spacey was not.

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I thought he was murdered becuase Ricky's father was himself a homosexual and couldn't come to terms, after exposing his secret, that Kevin Spacey was not.

That's a very popular belief by many, and there may be some truth, but I don't think it's 100% accurate.

In the original screenplay Frank Fitts sets up Ricky and Jane as the murders of Lester. Nothing in the film makes a compelling argument that Frank Fitts eventually realizes his son Ricky is not actually gay, even after Lester denies him. If Frank Fitts realized his son was not gay, he wouldn't have set him and his g/f up as murderers.

I have no doubt that Frank Fitts may have been bicurious after years of being homophobic, and then discovering (what he believes anyway) his only son ended up a homosexual, which is what led to him coming onto Lester because he was emotionally confused; but I don't think he was full-blown gay, nor was it ever intended for him to be full-blown gay.

Of course everyone has an agenda to push these days, so even if there's some small bit of sexual identity crisis, people will make it out as if he was a belligerent gay that was sneaking out to hardcore gay clubs every night for sex.

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Lolita depicted a middle aged man having sex with a teen. Movies showing controversial and illegal things obviously do get made, many movies show murder which everyone knows is wrong but can be shown as being ok. Yet they still are released. I would say it's a common belief that most people don't think a movie is going to so strongly influence someone to commit some crime, whether it's murder or sex with someone too young. People can like a movie or not. I'm not condoning anything. Is it any better to like a movie that has a lot of death and destruction? What people fantasize or enjoy is their own business, unless someone is harmed.

I can see that there may be some times when a relationship between a teen and someone much older results in just an experience, nothing harmful. Then there are times when harm is done. How can you know? I guess that's why the "law" is there, trying to prevent possible harm. But even 2 teens close in age and "legal" can harm each other. Again, I'm not condoning anything. Just stating possibilities of outcomes.

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I agree with your second para there is no way of knowing if you are causing harm and thats why its a bad idea to do it period let alone make films encouraging it. Lolita was a massively controversial film and I don't think many believed it to be a good idea at the time or even now. Obeying the law is usually a good guide (except in this case In the state the film was shot in it seems to be largely out of date and allows this kind of thing to go unpunished.

In regards to your first para there is a huge difference between murder / death and destruction and wondering into a subject that is a grey area in a lot of people's mind, and then taking it further by encouraging people to live out their fantasies of having sex with children.

At the end of he day we can't do anything about the films which have come out in the past and have set the wrong tone or encouraged the wrong behaviour but looking forward as a society we should be trying to improve on what has come before and develop our movies to set the right kind of message to adults and children alike. Not trying to entertain the perverted fantasies of 30 year old women.

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In the current movie, "Lifeguard," released in late Summer 2013, and probably actually filmed/made within the last 2-3 years, had the central relationship depicted been between a 20-something year-old man and a 16 year-old girl, there would have been a hew and a cry-AND RIGHTLY SO-about a movie that at least tacitly gives its "O.K." to a perverted, immoral relationship. So, why, again, in 2013, is it okay for a movie to depict a 20-something year-old WOMAN in a sexual relationship with a 16 year-old BOY. There absolutely IS a double-standard at work here. My question is this: Is the existence of this double-standard due, perhaps, to the assumption on everyone's part that when a 16 year-old female has sex with any male 18 years-old or older, whether she realizes it or not, she is being robbed of something, and therefore raped, whereas when any male capable of the sexual act-REGARDLESS of his age-REPORTS that he was willing, everyone concludes not only that said male was unharmed, but also that, frankly, he was damned lucky to "get what he got" from "an older woman." I really don't know how "Lolita" got made and received a major release back in 1962. I suspect it was partly because the sexual relationship betw. Humbert & Lolita, though very clearly implied, was never explicitly depicted on-screen. Also, movies like "Psycho," released around the same time and proving to be very profitable, were ushering in a new, edgier era for Hollywood. Also, I think one has to "credit" the power/influence of "Lolita"'s director, Stanley Kubrick. In any case, what really bothers me is the deeply split-personality our society displays TODAY, where a couple of times a month one hears of arrests of this/that middle-aged man/woman for the CRIME of having had a sexual relationship with a minor, while Hollywood continues, UNSWAYED, to make TONS of $$$, pumping out theatrical releases and HUGELY popular broadcast TV shows that glory in depicting what are, in fact, sick/criminal relationships.

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Exactly, thank you for summarising it so well.

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Let's put this into even more context: "Lolita" presented the main character's fixation on Lolita as something taboo and not okay. He ends up paying for it. "Lifeguard" and another recent film, "Adore" (in which two mothers have affairs with each others' sons) don't seem to find anything unusual about the act. There is a definite double standard here... as originally stated, if these two films presented things as older males having affairs with teenage girls, there would be a major brouhaha over it.

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Right, any form of sensual titillation sells. Especially when portraying male teen fantasies. But Lifeguard might be considered tame compared to others. Let's not forget the independent and foreign movies that are often praised for portraying the same subject matter even more explicitly, but resulting in awards at Cannes and Sundance. Malena portrays preteen male fantasies, which include a father taking his 12 old son to a brothel for his first experience with a woman. In addition, there are more and more movies these days that portray lesbian teen fantasies--same age and with the older woman. It's evidence of who's influencing movie-making. Mainstream movie studios began slowly competing with the porn industry in the 60s. And now it's catching up! If this movie would've been done on Lifetime, there wouldn't have been anything graphic, and thus, no (or very few) complaints. At least you can watch some of their movies with your son or daughter to use for teaching principles.

But here's something no one has mentioned concerning the relationship between a woman and boy. If this same women had wanted to marry the boy--not having had premarital sex--and had gotten his parents legal approval, no laws would've been broken! They could legally have sex. There's still the same age difference, but a paper changes everything! As mentioned in another post, young girls in some cultures are married off to older men at very young ages. Well, it was also common in America. But I've also seen court documents from the early 1800s of a 14 year old boy marrying a young lady in her 20s. The parents signed the document. Also in the early 1960s my 12 year old cousin married a 16 year old boy! Many people thought the parents should be committed. That marriage lasted only a few months. My cousin remarried when she was 15, a boy that was 18. And let's not forget Elvis and Prisilla!

There are gray areas when it comes to feelings. There are laws that keep adults from having sex/seducing/raping underage people, but other laws allow those same people of differing ages to legally marry. This is why instilling principles is more effective than laws that allow no room for examining situations individually. The movie portrays one gray area--although, for titillation--of human feelings that western laws see as black--wrong, sick, perverted, etc. And for the movie, maybe that is a correct description.

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Frank Fitts is not "bi-curious." He is a severely repressed and stunted gay man, living a lie. I remember reading an interview, where Chris Cooper expressed his dissatisfaction with how the film was edited. Frank Fitts apparently had more of a backstory than we saw in the final film. According to Cooper, Frank had had a relationship with a man when he was much younger, but because of family and societal pressures, he was forced to give up his "lifestyle" and live the life of a heterosexual. He was brainwashed into believing that his feelings were sinful and wrong.

Did you notice how harried and traumatized Frank's wife seems? She's basically shell-shocked. That comes from years of abuse and neglect. It's most likely due to being married to a man who didn't want to be married to her, who takes his anger and frustration out on her. Frank is a powder keg of repression, anger and bitterness. He couldn't live the life he wanted, and he's very, very angry. While he expresses disgust at the thought that Ricky might be gay, there's a part him that's jealous. Why does his son get to be gay and happy, when he could not?

When his advances are rejected by Lester, it is the final straw. After all, he was finally able to let his guard down and show someone who he really is--after decades of denial and repression--and is swiftly rebuffed. Killing Lester is like finally killing off that side of himself that he has fought for years, once and for all. Lester may be dead, but Frank's life is over.




Always be wary of men who are super-angry about gay people.


Sister, when I've raised hell, you'll know it!

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they made a movie kindof sortof like that its called lolita , no lifeguards though.

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They made a movie like that. It was called "Beautiful Girls."

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I don't really think it is a matter of double standards
it is more abt how they show it in the movies
in this movie the guy was so **** up and depressed, she was a journalist taking a break and she went back to her life and I don't remember how it happened but prolly he started it and was ok with it and had no complains
if it was reversed, like older man/younger girl, then the guy would be not so good looking and he will start it and he will lie to get the girl and she will prolly say no a couple of times so she is a victim
like that movie "Trust", the guy lied abt his age several time and he met her online and he was chasing underage girls even young as 12 and when they had sex she said no a couple of times and she didn't know what was going on and after it happened he left her
see the difference in portraying the situation? I think that is exactly why ppl have different reactions to the same plot when it is reversed
also there is a movie "Ashley" 2013, it was a girl/girl situation where the young girl lied and said she is 18 while she was 17, the older girl was so sweet to her and took it slow and was interested in her and after they met for real the young girl who was so depressed actually changed into a better and a happier person
it is more abt how it is portrayed, not double standards coz of the gender.

"It is never about what happened, it is only how you look at it!"

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Men who are complaining about if it were a role reversal are just upset about being called out on the fact that many of them do fantasize about underage girls and some even act on it.

The main character in this story was not predatory and wasn't out looking to sleep with a 16 year old. Jason also knew exactly what he was doing. I'm not here to get into debate about underage and right and wrong, but everyone knows 16-18 year old guys are very different when it comes to sex and hormones than 16-18 year old girls. I know because I was 16 before and it was just different for us girls than the guys. I remember clearly.

Females are also attracted to youth, which seem to bother some men on this board.

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I think people need to separate movies and real-life. I love slasher movies. That's NOT because I really want to see people horribly die. I also always have time for "lolita" movies, but that isn't because I have any kind of obsession with girls half my age in real life. The book "Lolita" is one of my favorite books with the possible exception of "Moby Dick", but I'm no more likely to fall in love with a barely pubescent girl than I am to hop on whaling vessel and go pursue a white whale.

If you're talking about a MOVIE, I think the double-standard thing is totally irrelevant. There have been many, many movies about men sleeping with underage girls and I like many of them. In real-life there is a double standard I suppose, but I can't honestly say that when I was 17 the worst thing that could have happened to me would be being sexually "preyed" upon by Kristen Bell.

But what I don't understand is why people can enjoy murder in movies, but they can't watch something like this without feeling they need to get on a moral high horse about it one way or another. I think if you're going to do something in real life having sex with a 17 year old of either gender would be better than committing murder. Yet no one ever goes on about how terrible it is for Hannibal Lecter to kill and eat all those people.

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Actually, in the original, better version, a man (Sam Elliott) did play the role:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074798/?ref_=nv_sr_2

though the characters/relationships are somewhat different.

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