MovieChat Forums > Spider-Man: Homecoming (2017) Discussion > How is casting black/minority actors as ...

How is casting black/minority actors as Flash and Liz progressive?

posted 8 years ago by HarveyManfredSinJohn
13 replies | jump to latest

Flash and Liz are bullies and snobs. They're an unsympathetic bully-boy jock and stuck-up rich bitch respectively. They represent all that is wrong about white privilege.

I could understand casting Peter with a black actor, but how is making the smartest kid in an ethnically mixed high-school, white remotely 'progressive' or help the 'diversity' cause? How is casting ethnic minorities as the dumb and shallow kids, remotely progressive?

Why are all the white people in these films super-smart? Flash and Liz are rare examples of white Marvel characters who aren't too bright, but for whatever reason Marvel, or more likely Sony (who, like Fox, don't know their asses from their elbows) decided to cast black and ethnic minority actors in the parts.

And why are all the black characters in the MCU dumb thugs, villains, sidekicks and bimbos?

[–] casmith-99343 8 years ago

Cast minorities as hereos = good
Cast minorities as villians = bad

[–] audiosane 8 years ago

Besides Black Panther, all the protagonists/lead heroes in the MCU so far are white men.

Why Star Wars: The Force Awakens sucks: https://youtu.be/8g9cJ5WKZeU

[–] Spider198 8 years ago

Your logic is screwed. So you'd be all for it if they had made Peter black, and will be fine with it if Zendaya is infact MJ (still not confirmed and would be terrible) but they aren't allowed to change any characters that are bad in any way or aren't the smartest characters in the film.

So the only ones allowed to stay white are the horrible people or the idiots. Very progressive of you.

[–] garciaruben223 8 years ago

The casting of Flash Thompson I can get behind simply because I've seen the kid, Tony Revolori, act before and he's not bad at all. Zendaya is a different story.The last time that I remember seeing her in anything was in Shake It Up. Now, the girl is beautiful and she can even sing, her voice is pretty good, but her acting is not so great. Ever since I first saw her in the Hannah Monatana show (she was way younger back then), I immediately thought right from the start that this girl was horrible and annoying (acting wise) and to this day, she hasn't impressed me much. I don't support her playing MJ, I just don't think she has much experience and should probably get some better acting lessons.

[–] GreenGoblinsOckVenom86 8 years ago

Actually in the comics, Flash ends up being Peter's friend after highschool and Liz ends up getting attracted to Peter while he's still in highschool and even stands up to Flash for Peter when he's picking on him. I think Liz Allen might be the love interest. I just hope maybe they'll beef up Tony for the role so he is more like the character of the comics and not just some nerdy bully version of Peter Parker. I know nothing about Zendeya so I don't know if she'll be good or not.

1, 2 Freddy's coming for you. 3, 4 better lock your door.

[–] HarveyManfredSinJohn 8 years ago

Have you seen the actor playing Flash? He's geekier and smaller than the guy playing Peter. He ain't no jock.

And Gwen and MJ are meant to be Peter's true loves. Liz is the bitchy shallow girl who spurned Peter at highschool.

Now clearly both Flash and Liz matured and became better people post-high-school, but as far as Pete's high-school years go, they were the jerks.

Unfortunately, this diversity mantra is hurting the movie, and may end up resulting in the MCU's first failure. I'm already becoming less enthusiastic for the rest of the MCU because of the way I feel that this poor rendition of Marvel's signature character, Spider-Man, will hurt the entire franchise through association.

[–] politicidal 8 years ago

"SSSSSSSSssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhh!", says Marvel.

What's missing in movies is same as in society: a good sense of work ethic and living up to ideals.

[–] ItsEddieHaskellBeyotch 8 years ago

Easy solution, save yourself the grief you're sure to have and don't see or support the film.

When there's no more room in Hollywood, remakes shall walk the Earth.

[–] HarveyManfredSinJohn 8 years ago

I've supported the MCU up to now. I'm a fan of the franchise, but since all the films are interlinked it only takes one movie to tarnish the rest. So, no, ignoring this film is NOT an option for a MCU fan like me.

[–] Hassan_Scarborough 8 years ago

I personally hate race changes but these characters have changed vastly over the years.

Why do they have to stay the same?

[–] AndrewGS 8 years ago

In the comics Liz wasn't really snobby or nasty, let alone a nemesis, and regardless Peter didn't have same age friends (aside from somewhat Betty and Liz and, in the Ultimate version, Mary Jane and Harry) or role model-type characters so to have more ethnic diversity at the high school you would have to have them as not-very appealing characters. For them to be smart enough to attend a private science school makes them somewhat role models.

Besides, this Flash may be a bully but not a jock bully and it seems pretty likely that (taking inspiration from The Breakfast Club) the characters will all become friends or at least more friendly and understanding of each other by the end.

And why are all the black characters in the MCU dumb thugs, villains, sidekicks and bimbos?

Well there's some influence from the filmmakers not wanting to differ too much from the comics, in which most of the casts were white. But while Nick Fury, War Machine and Falcon are supporting characters they're not portrayed negatively or stereotypes (War Machine, especially in IM2 was more admirable than Iron Man, I wish he would get more development) nor do I think there have been a lot of black thug, villain or bimbo characters.

[–] ithinkimdeck 8 years ago

It's not likely that Liz will be a snob in this film. I highly doubt they would cast Laura Harrier, who could be doing better things, simply as a snob who rejects Peter. That said, Liz and Flash were only stuck-up snobs in the beginning.

Flash evolved pretty quickly to be Peter's best friend and even his best man at his wedding to MJ. While Liz initially rejected Peter, she eventually came around and realized she had feelings for him the whole time, and it was Peter who told her it was too late.

I'd reckon this will go down similar to the Spectacular Spiderman series since Liz is the love interest. That much has been confirmed.

Zendaya's Michele is actually very intelligent and was never portrayed as a hard "thug."

I disagree with you on Liz and Flash representing white privilege. That's Harry and Gwen. If Harry and Gwen were POC, the characters wouldn't work imo. MJ could easily be a POC and her character wouldn't suffer for it at all. In fact, it might make her character more interesting, not that she needs help in that dept.