MovieChat Forums > Orphan Black (2013) Discussion > Next series: A different kind of clone?

Next series: A different kind of clone?

posted 8 years ago by jamesmcnaughton
10 replies | jump to latest

Just a theory for the final series that I've not seen anywhere else (apologies if someone has already suggested it).

I've been wondering about how Westmoreland could possibly still be alive as the end of last series seems to suggest. I'm hoping the explanation isn't some additional sci-fi concept but is something linked to what we've seen before.

Now the easy answer to my question and hope is to say genetic clone (like LEDA and CASTOR) but that doesn't quite work. Given that one of the series' running themes is the importance of Nurture vs Nature then a simple clone of him wouldn't really be him, just his DNA and maybe appearance. That wouldn't really be significant given that the important things about Westmoreland are his ideas. Having someone turn up with a different personality & experience but the same DNA wouldn't really accomplish anything.

For his ideas to be furthered the clone(s) of him would have to be heavily nurtured to at least have his personality, ideology and intelligence - perhaps a form of brainwashing could achieve this, maybe even give the clone the illusion of having the same memories.

Of course this is skipping over the big elephant in the room; more genetic clones? Its near impossible in the Orphan Black world, especially given technology and available science in Westmoreland's era , and would be quite cheap after all this time being told how important and unique LEDA and CASTOR were to say that there were other genetic clones out there.

So maybe his clones aren't genetic, i.e. by-nature clones - but by-nurture clones. People could have been brainwashed into being Westmoreland - likely from a young age.

There are several ways that could happen, maybe his followers do it in the background to ensure there's a Westmoreland ready when the previous one dies to lead them, or maybe each 'generation' of nurture clone over time realises (or knows from the start) what they are and raises (i.e. brainwashes) the next one.

I have no idea if this is close to how they'll handle it but I'm really looking forward to finding out.

[–] billebrooks 8 years ago

I've been saying Westmoreland is a cyborg, but he could be a cyborg/clone combination. He could have a robot brain with his ideas implanted. Or a clone could have been given brainwashing technology similar to Rachel's eye.

[–] OpinionSoup 8 years ago

Good points. I have been banging my head against the same issue. I wondered about westmoreland as well, and how to avoid immortality, cloning in the victorian era or similar. So far nothing satisfactory. Some sort of natural clone? A hermaphrodite's child?

It does seem like there is some sort of cult of science, possibly something truely horrific like Helstrom's Hive. Very plausibly at least social darwinists taken to a cult-like extreme.

One thing I liked about seasons 1-2 was that it was all plausible science (with a tiny plausibly deniable bit of ESP or metaphysics.. they were incredibly carefully vague about that). To me it was more of a technothriller than a SciFi.

Up till the end of 2 I really thought I had it sorted. The whole thing including Kira could be explained like clockwork with only a tiny stretch beyond cloning, and no evil moustache-twiddling conspiracy, just a horrible mistake between real people.

[–] billebrooks 8 years ago

cloning in the victorian era or similar

Westmoreland could have survived into the 1980's without "help" I suppose. Perhaps cloning him then would have the same problems as Charlotte does.

[–] OpinionSoup 8 years ago

Good point.. They could even have frozen samples from earlier I suppose.. for some weird cultish reasoning. I guess that goes towards making Cal a candidate. He was doing intricate robotics which could apply to the eye I suppose..

[–] Cosima324 8 years ago

I got to thinking about the potential for Westmoreland to be some sort of clone, and I don't know.... Unless Ethan Duncan was bamboozled and was made to think that Susan Duncan solved the spindle protein problem in the early 80s even though perhaps she cracked it previously and no one told him, it wouldn't have been possible any sooner. Just a thought.....

I do wonder who Westmoreland is, male or female? Actual original being or transplant of some sort of collective unconscious mind? It'll be interesting to find out, that's for sure!

"This organism and derivative genetic material is restricted intellectual property."

[–] billebrooks 8 years ago

I do wonder who Westmoreland is, male or female?

Likely male, as his first name is Percival.

[–] raventhom 8 years ago

Or he is from Gallifrey

[–] sadfilmophile 8 years ago

How many types of tech have we seen so far-
. Brightborn tech : which deals with cherrypicking genes(?) but as we're specifically told this is relatively new , this can be ruled out.

. Cloning: entire people were cloned after a special subject was found in the80s(?) but that doesn't mean Westie cant have cloned ORGANS. Maybe his own organs have been cloned to replace old ones? That's one way of prolonging a life.

. Robotic organs: Maybe he has a few of these as well?

. "Sight beyond sight" ( Kira's esp & the swan visions in Rachel's eye): Ok, I don't know how to analyse and draw conclusions on these two different types of extrasensory perceptions, other than to observe that since Westie made that eye he knows how to mimic what Kira seems to 'recieve' naturally. (Surely we're all thinking the same thing - that Kira's ESP is something she got as a result of something put inside of Sarah's genes, something not manifested in Sarah but passed down through her?) If I lived for a 100 or so years, working on making myself immune to ageing then I wd be very interested in studying ESP. There wd be no point in doing all that work if I can't sense a person coming up behind me with a knife. I bet Westie wanted to develop the science of ESP to cover his backside in both the literal and metaphorical sense.

. Wormy thingies in mouths: We just don't know how this cd contribute to keeping a person alive for a zillion years. Maybe Westie got tired of refreshing the skin every ten years and so developed smth that worked away all along so that he wouldnt have to undergo any surgery that he strictly doesn't need to? I'm sure his version wdnt have the poison-trigger. Naturally. 😊

All in all I think we might see the man himself!

[–] billebrooks 8 years ago

. Brightborn tech : which deals with cherrypicking genes(?) but as we're specifically told this is relatively new , this can be ruled out.

. Wormy thingies in mouths: We just don't know how this cd contribute to keeping a person alive for a zillion years. Maybe Westie got tired of refreshing the skin every ten years and so developed smth that worked away all along so that he wouldnt have to undergo any surgery that he strictly doesn't need to? I'm sure his version wdnt have the poison-trigger.

I'm not sure why you are listing these two separately, as they are the same. But it is certainly conceivable that the worms could slow down, stop, or even reverse aging via genetic manipulation.

[–] sadfilmophile 8 years ago

Ah, you see, I think they should be thought of as two separate things. By Brightborn tech I mean the the process of creating tailored zygotes, with certain desireable traits. The kinks to this process was still being worked out which is why they were killing certain babies.

The worms were put into grownups and they were a way of modifying a regular person. Even though a Brightborn security person shoved this down Sarah, it might not mean that this is Brightborn technology. The Neo doctors had them in their mouths, so I'm guessing this tech was past the trials and tests phase, making it older than zygote splicing. Now that I think about it, the fact that we've seen two neolution doctors have these in their mouths makes it seem more probable that Westie, who I guess they admire, has used this tech himself. Anyway, its fun thinking how they're gonna swing this long living genius deal.

(Incidentally, we still don't know why Sarah was fitted with a worm thing. I've actually forgotten whether or not the BB security guy did it in the Laundromat or if she got it back when Rachel had her scheduled for an oophorectomy? )