We are told she came to Canada at age 12, so she has been there for 17 years at the start of the show. I refuse to accept that she would have completely retained her London accent. It would have been more convincing if we had been told that she came to Canada more recently, as an adult.
shareMost people claim that Sarah has an accent in between Canadian and cockney.
shareThere's a thread on Tat's board with a link about the different accents. Sarah's accent is supposed to be an Estuary accent, which can really include a bunch of different regional dialects, which I touched upon in that thread. I've always thought that Sarah's accent sounded like a South London accent with lower/middle-class leanings. The fact that it sounds a bit of a jumble I don't reckon is on purpose, because it sounds like more of a scene-to-scene or episode-to-episode consistency issue.
Maslany is insanely talented, but I do think that accents are probably her one shortcoming. Many of the greatest actors struggle with accents, so I really don't hold it against her.
On a more relatrd character note, how easily you retain your accent is dependent on more than just age/puberty. I've travelled/moved a lot from a young age and still largely retain my native Brummie accent. I've lived in two other English regions as well as Canada, and while my accent does change based on environment and company, the Brummie accent is still what I return to after all these years.
Recently, I also encountered a fellow who I could have sworn was English, but he is in fact French -- raised there since the age of about thirteen or fourteen. Again, his family is English, and he was exposed to that accent daily, so that's how he sounds, but he slips into French as though it were a comfortable pair of shoes. So I do think it depends on different factors.
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Why don't you take a pill, bake a cake, go read the encyclopaedia.
Here's a link to her accent coach that appeared on BBCA a long while ago. Good to repost it here.
http://www.bbcamerica.com/anglophenia/2015/05/how-tatiana-maslany-nails-her-accents-on-orphan-black
First of all it is not "Estuary" i.e. an accent from the regions to the East of London. I am from Essex and her accent bears no resemblance whatsoever to anyone in that county, nor anyone in Kent for that matter. Although I don't really care what accent they were aiming for, Sarah supposedly spent her childhood in Brixton where people do not speak Estuary English but something quite different, owing to the demographics of that area of London (home to many Jamaicans since the Second World War).
Regarding your accent, I can assure you that you are an exception and the vast majority of children who migrate to other English-speaking countries will lose their accent entirely, as is the case with the tens of thousands of young British born children in Australia.
Your point about the Frenchman (who was really English) is moot, as it concerns bilingualism and moreover a "home language" i.e. one which was spoken within the family rather than outside the home. He acquired English from his family's speech at home, so it follows that his accent would be the same as theirs. I have met dozens of people with a similar background, it is nothing extraordinary.
It was not I who referred to it as an Estuary accent, but her actual dialect coach in the video clip in the link provided by MichScotty. I wouldn't label it as such either. As I said, it's a South London accent with more of a lower/middle-class dialect and slang.
Also, he was an Englishman who was really a Frenchman . It is related, I feel, because it was the accent that threw me -- not what language he spoke. He has zero trace of any French accent when speaking, the same as I do.
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Why don't you take a pill, bake a cake, go read the encyclopaedia.
But again, that is related to bilingualism. I am a linguist, so this is more clear cut to me, but basically it is quite normal for bilinguals to retain separate accents in separate languages. It is not the same thing as a person's accent changing in their mother tongue as a result of moving to another country where that language is also spoken.
I would not even qualify him as a "Frenchman"; he was not born in France and as such I find it impossible to believe that he did not have British nationality, even if he had also acquired French nationality. He was a bilingual dual-national at best. It is worth pointing out that the many thousands of French-born people living in the UK do not hold British nationality, and as such could not seriously be considered "British" either by themselves or others. In France the concept of nationality holds more of a legal and bureaucratic definition than a cultural one or one related to parentage or heritage. There are many immigrants in France who are French nationals but who do not have metropolitan French accents, so your point about accents and nationality is in fact moot.
So even if this man has lived in France for more than twenty years -- the larger majority of his years on earth -- you would not consider him French? Not even if he has citizenship there, was schooled there, has roots there? Hmm...
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Why don't you take a pill, bake a cake, go read the encyclopaedia.
It's not up to me, it's what French people consider makes a French citizen. For them nationality is really what's on paper. That's why I said that accents and nationality do not go hand in hand anyway. It's not the same as a Brit who spent their whole life in Australia, considers themselves an Aussie through and through, but never changed their citizenship.
shareYour a dick who thinks he knows more than everyone else.
shareI know old ladies who spent YEARS in the United States who still retain thier english accents.
shareand for each of those "old ladies" there are thousands who lost their accents entirely. A bit of context is necessary here, Sarah came to Canada at age 12 in modern times, she was not a married woman confined to her household. In fact far from it, she was socializing at school then traveling around Canada coming into contact with...Canadians! The only person there to "reinforce" her native accent was her brother, who also mysteriously retains his accent, and who she didn't see for months at a time when she off gallivanting and shacking up with guys like Cal.
I know there are exceptions, but in this case I just don't buy it. The accent is just a way to distinguish this particular character, it serves no other purpose.
Sarah is also capable of changing her accent at will. She did so while imitating Beth, Cosima, etc. Indeed her English accent appears to be a default she uses around Felix whom she is more honest with than anyone else.
shareAnd you're bending over backwards to justify your complaint without anything to back it up with. On a show about clones, you're bitching she, like others realistically have, kept her accent? Okay....
shareBeen living in Scotland since 1999. That's 17 years. I am still told that I speak with a strong American accent.
If you move to a country that speaks your native tongue, there is actually less imperative to modify the way you speak.
For example, when I learned to speak German, I lived in Bavaria at the time and I learned German with a Bavarian accent without realizing I was doing so because I was trying to be as similar as possible to the people around me.
But here in Scotland, I can just speak with my own accent and people understand me fine. There is no reason to adapt my natural accent. I can't even do a passable Scottish accent although I can pull of a decent English one.
Go figure.
I don't know how this will fit into your theory.
I wonder how old you were when you went to Scotland, because age obviously makes a big difference.
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix
Either, it is impossible for Sarah to retain her accent or it is not.
There is such a thing as bending over too far backward to defend a point.
If it is not implausible that she retained her accent then there is no issue.
Given that I have lived in a country that speaks my native tongue but with a different accent without significantly having lost my own accent- it is not implausible (as I am proof) that others might do/experience the same.
Sarah's British accent is not perfect. My American accent is no longer perfect- although to local ears it still sounds perfectly American.
She had a sibling who also had the accent and a foster mother who had a non-Canadian accent. It seems completely within the realm of possibility to me that she would have kept her accent.
It's a silly complaint by the OP. I've seen all sorts of people living here in the UK from other countries. Some actively seek to learn the local accent and want to assimilate as fully as possible. Others don't learn the new accent.
Think of Arnold Schwarzenegger. Has lived in the USA most of his life and has made a lot of money in a career field where it is usually better to be able to speak as clearly and understandably as possible. But he still has a very thick German accent.
This plays into Orphan Black, by the way. Because Katja Obinger has a similar accent that got criticized by some fans of the show- yet Arnold is living proof that native German speakers do, indeed, sometimes speak exactly like that.
All I'm saying is, the world isn't easy to dissect from one's living room. There are no hard and fast rules that you can apply from the safety of the arm chair. People speak all kinds of different ways and have all sorts of background stories. Sarah Manning is nothing special as far as that goes.
Age is crucial in fact, and here one could draw parallels with second language learning and the "critical period". Arnie is irrelevant as he was already an adult when he first moved to London before the US, and because I am specifically dealing with speakers of the same language, obviously I recognise that second language speakers usually retain at least some elements of their native accent.
My main gripe is the age at which Sarah went to Canada - 12 - and the length of time spent there - 17 years - because she has spent more time growing up and developing language and communication and social skills in Canada than she ever did in England.
Now, I am not saying it's "impossible", I said "in reality" it wouldn't happen i.e. in the vast majority of cases, and Sarah's case seems quite typical to me in that she is living in a large city and has been surrounded by Canadians almost her entire life, it is not as if they moved to a cabin in northern Canada and never saw another human being.
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix
Scenario #1
Sarah moves to Canada at age 12. Canadian 12-14 boys think her accent is sexy. She works on keeping it.
Scenario #2
Sarah moves to Canada at age 12. Canadian girls think her accent interferes with the attention of boys 12-14 that they think is their due. They go after her. She refuses to cave and keeps the accent out of spite.
Assimilation like you suggest works if you want to be part of a group or to go unnoticed. But that may not be the case here and it sure as hell isn't automatic.
I've heard/read that people who move to a new country after the age of about 10 will retain their original accents. It may soften over time but will never completely go away.
shareNo, not true at all. At the age of 10 it is still possible to completely replace your mother tongue entirely, and even forget the language you grew up speaking.
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix
You are assuming that the accent was not re-enforced. All it would take would be 2-3 other kids of her age group with similar accents to do that.
shareMy Mum's family is from Belfast. She moved to Australia when she was 30, had children, we obviously speak with an Aussie Accent. Her older sister also migrated here a while after Mum did, along with her husband and 2 children who were 9 & 11 at the time. Both of the kids still have a distinguishable Irish accent, the oldest is slightly stronger.
I don't notice it as much as I'm used to the accent, but other Aussies do very easily.
As their main influence at home was Irish, and they also had quite a few family friends who spoke the same.
From the show it appears Siobhan also has a few UK ppl in her life, so it's reasonable to think they were around them. It also seems pretty reasonable to think that since they were in hiding, they didn't do a huge amount of socialising outside of the home, especially early on. We know that Sarah didn't complete her High School education, and was a bit of a trouble maker, so it's also possible she was only in school a couple of years and didn't have that daily interaction in the classroom to influence her accent.
I actually don't even find her accent that strong for a South London accent (which based on what we know is what it's supposed to be). Sounds a little stronger when they're using slang etc, but from spending a few years int he UK myself it's certainly nowhere near as strong as some. So it possibly has softened quite a bit.
Sure, people who move at that age could possibly lose their accent, but it is also extremely plausible they would not, especially for a strong independent punk rock character such as Sarah.
So since it obviously lies withing the realm of possibility, I don't see why it's an issue...