MovieChat Forums > Draft Day (2014) Discussion > Incompetent GMs

Incompetent GMs

posted 11 years ago by Eric_Cartman69
44 replies | jump to latest

I know this is just a movie, but I could not get over how stupid the general managers were in this movie. No sane GM would do any of the trades portrayed in this film because it would mean being immediately fired.

I can almost understand the Browns GM (Kevin Costner) giving up three #1 picks to move up to the #1 pick if they believed they were taking the next Peyton Manning, but to give up so much for a questionable prospect would be insane. Not to mention it seemed like the Browns did not do their homework on the QB prospect before they traded up for the chance to pick him. This is unrealistic. In real life top prospects are thoroughly researched by the GM, coaches, scouts, etc long before the actual draft day. No NFL team would give up a historic amount of picks without being completely sold on the player.

After making the trade to #1, there is no way that they would then take the LB that they were originally targeting with the 6th pick. If they would have done this in real life they would have been the laughing stock of the league, and the owner would basically have no choice but to fire Kevin Costner on the spot for being completely incompetent.

The worst trade of all was made by the Seahawks GM. Owning the 7th pick in the draft, he gives up three #1 picks to move up from 7 to 6 in order to draft the quarterback they were considering taking with the first pick. After being giving a gift of a trade by the Browns, no GM would give up 3 number one picks to move from 7 to 6. That is just way too much to give up and would never happen. According to the draft value chart which NFL GMs use to value draft picks, the difference between the 7th overall pick and the 6th overall pick is 100 points. They would only have to give up about a 3rd or 4th round pick to move up 1 spot. No NFL GM in their right mind would give up around 5,000 points to move up 100 points. Any GM that did this would be fired on the spot and the trade would go down in NFL history as the worst trade of all time.

[–] threeeschs 11 years ago

I think it's even worse than you portray. You didn't even mention giving up the three second-rounders (that he never got back) to get a LB projected to go late first round. Oh, and if the Jacksonville GM was this incompetent, then Costner should have called him in the morning before he even talked to his pregnant girlfriend. He should have been fleecing that guy from the get go.

But, the movie was not really about the NFL draft. It's a movie about relationships and growth as all Reitmann movies are. I was hoping to get insight into the NFL draft. I feel no more enlightened than I did before I saw the movie.

By the way, the idea of not drafting a potential HOF QB because no one came to his bday party is a joke. The idea of character in the first round is the guy who hits his girlfriend the least.

[–] Eric_Cartman69 11 years ago

I didn't really read any reviews of this movie going in, and for some reason I was expecting it to be more of a traditional sports movie, instead of a relationship movie where sports were used as a plot device.

That being said, I actually found the relationship parts of the movie just as bad as the sports parts. The one thing I did like was Dennis Leary the head coach. Think about how pissed off he would be trying to work with all the incompetent people within the Browns organization. As the draft was unfolding, he could barely believe what was happening.

Overall, the amount of baffling trades and incomprehensible decisions distracted me to the point that I could not even concentrate on the plot, and the end result is that I hate this movie.

I don't know if I have ever seen a completely realistic sports movie, and I even somewhat enjoy movies such as Varsity Blues because at least they try to be entertaining in their unrealisticness.

[–] arentol 10 years ago

The LB was a mid-rounder, not late.

It was established in the movie that Jennings was about a #7 pick and Mack was almost definitely going to go at #15. So we have to value those two guys at those levels.

Lets value a future year pick at half the average current year value of all picks for that round. That makes a second round pick next year worth ~210 points, and half it again for 3 years out to ~105 points.

So what he lost was:

#7 = 1500, #39 = 510, 2015-2nd = 210, 2016-2nd = 105
Total = 2225.

What he gained was:

#7 = 1500, #15 = 1050, and a punt returner.
Total = 2550 and a punt returner, so he came out ahead.

The Seahawks lost no points and saved $7 million, but they did have to give up a punt returner. That is probably a slight gain for them overall.

The Jaguars lost 775 points. They clearly got screwed on this deal.

But I agree in general with the OP... Every single one of these GMs made at least one seriously boneheaded move. In real life there is almost no chance it would work out this well, or even half as well, for Sonny after trading up to get what he already had.

[–] dgcasey 10 years ago

By the way, the idea of not drafting a potential HOF QB because no one came to his bday party is a joke. The idea of character in the first round is the guy who hits his girlfriend the least.

You might pass him over if you begin to realize that his teammates couldn't stand him. Not one showed up for his party? Out of how many dozens of players, not one? Not even one of his linemen? That right there would tell me something about the guy. And is this the kind of guy you want on your team?

Also, going back and looking at the films he sees a QB, a Heisman trophy winner and a potential first round pick the next year, that gets flustered when he gets blindsided by a linebacker. There's a saying in football about a QB like that. "He could hear footsteps."

[–] WermhatsWormHat 11 years ago

The Redskins made a similar trade for a guy named RG3 to just move up a couple spots. Lets not forget Ricky Williams either. It's possible.

[–] Eric_Cartman69 11 years ago

But what if the Redskins traded 3 first round picks to move up and take RGIII and then changed their minds and took a linebacker that was projected to be a mid first round pick?

[–] WermhatsWormHat 11 years ago

Then we would immediately fire him for incompetence. They act like Costner fixed that move but he didn't really. I'm just saying some of the initial moves were legit until the movie ruining ending.

[–] sschind-396-829413 10 years ago

That was the unrealistic part. Giving up a lot of picks to move up is not unheard of. Giving up that many picks and still not being sure of who you are going to take is.

Costner didn't screw per se up when he traded 3 #1s to move up where he screwed up was in not doing the necessary research on the guy he traded up to get.

After he decided to go with his first choice all along he had resigned himself to the fact he had screwed up royally. Though I doubt he would have been fired for it in real life they certainly made it sound like he would be in the movie. It was only after Callahan fell to #6 that he thought of pulling off the trade with the Jaguars in an effort to get back even a little bit. As it turned out he got back a quite a bit and then some

[–] dan6pitcher 10 years ago

Yeah, and both of those trades are looked at as busts and cost the men who made them their jobs.

They could have easily traded their three 2nd rounders for a punt returner and a pick around 12-15 to draft Mack. Drafting a guy projected to be the #15 pick at #1 is a pathetic move and is definitely grounds for a firing.

[–] Trackmaster 10 years ago

You generally don't give up future first rounders for a non-QB. Too many holes to fill in an NFL roster to do that, no matter who that player is. Maybe by showing Ray Lewis they were implying that he becomes the next Ray Lewis, which would make him with 5 first round picks, but that's unlikely.

Generally, you only take QB's, LT's, and DE's #1 overall these days. It's all about throwing the ball, getting to the QB, and protecting your QB.

[–] capablecarl 10 years ago

When Sonny woke up that morning he was very clear what he was going to do. He liked his QB Brian Drew, and he was going to take Mack at 7. Then pancake eating mutherf@cker calls him with an offer, and Browns owner ambushes him at a water park.

Everyone commenting here forgets the conversation Weaver had with the owner. He put incredible pressure on Sonny to "make a splash". So he makes the deal with pancake, with full intention of abandoning his original plan and going with Callahan, so he could do exactly what his boss told him to do, or else get fired.

Grabbing the #1 pick will cost you exactly what Sonny gave up, especially for a consensus franchise player, so there was no incompetence on Sonny's part.

If you were paying attention, Sonny agreed with coach Penn, Drew was his man. Sonny drafted him. He stuck by him when he got hurt, and even gave him an extension. WTF did Sonny want with Callahan? Why should he draft a guy he thought was a lesser man than his guy Drew, just because his d!p$h!t boss wanted a draft day headline?

Plus, he always wanted Mack. What difference does it make where you draft him if you get your guy? You can argue the money you pay the #1 pick all you want, but if he takes a guy he doesn't want or need in Callahan, there was no way he would get Mack, the guy he wanted and needed. Sonny made a smart "football" decision.

Was pancake an incompetent GM? No. He had a cap problem. If he drafted Callahan he would have had to further gut an already last place team. He was looking big picture, and didn't care what PR problems it would cause. He was making both a good "business" and "football" decision.

You've seen guys drop in the draft in real life, so why does it take some incredible suspension of belief to imagine Callahan dropping? Other teams have their plan on draft day, and if it doesn't include going off script, then they will take who they scouted if he is there, and pass on a guy they might not really have a handle on. This is why Aaron Rodgers dropped to #24, when he easily could have gone (and should have gone) #1.

Since the draft was so out of whack so early, it isn't hard to believe that the rookie GM in Jacksonville might have had 2 or maybe even 3 potential picks at #6 pulled right out from under him. He also had his doubts about Callahan, and listened to Sonny's advice about regrouping instead of making some wild guess on a guy for whom he had no feel. And Sonny didn't actually lie to him. He thought Callahan would be a bust. Anyway, Jeff Carter got 3 second rounders for his trouble. Look up the % of 2nd rounders who make NFL rosters, and you'll see that this was not an incompetent move.

So now Sonny has the pick that can effectively c@ck block Seattle "dream draft". Pancake has looked out his window and has seen himself hung in effegy, and heard all the talk radio rubes calling for his head. Pancake actually wanted Bo but couldn't afford him. Now he can, but he is going to be a pick late. Of course he's going to make the deal. He has his image restored, and has solved his cap issue all by agreeing to the deal. Not incompetent.

There was clearly some luck involved all this maneuvering, but this stuff happens all the time on draft day. And in the case of this movie, at least on paper, everybody kind of wins at the end of the day.

[–] WermhatsWormHat 11 years ago

Also, when Costner said ALL OUR PICKS for that final seahawks trade, did he mean the ones Seattle took or that AND the 2nd rounders he lost to Jax? Because if he didn't get the 2nd rounders back he still looks like a moron trading 3 2nds for a top RB and some random PR.

[–] mjack421 11 years ago

I largely agree. I didn't mind the GM logic in trades so much but the fact that the organization didn't seem to HAVE ANY VIDEO ON BO was shocking to me with hours before the draft.

[–] boxerrebellion 11 years ago

Apparently you missed the part about the film being archived and the password being changed during the off-season. Don't think that stuff like that doesn't happen.... universities change their websites, including the Learning Management System (how online classes are delivered and completed) in the middle of the semester on a regular basis.

They had seen the video on Bo; he had been sacked less than any other college QB that year - only 11 times, but 4 were by Mack. The dots they hadn't put together is that getting sacked by Mack caused Bo to be antsy the next play - afraid Mack would hit him again.... EXCEPT for the time he was sacked (by someone else) and Mack had already been ejected from the game.... Bo was AFRAID of Mack.

Also, for dramatic purposes this all took place in less than 13 hours - I am not obsessed with football - I enjoy watching games on Sundays, am a Redskins fan, but don't even know most of the names anymore. I would expect that a lot of the drama presented would have taken place in the days or weeks before draft day in the real world. The time compression, however, does present the pressure on that day and a lot of this type of stuff probably does happen during the actual draft.

[–] hedkickboy 11 years ago

You didn't even mention what I saw as the most absurd GM, the new guy in Jacksonville. First off, he runs a team that is bad enough that that they fired his successor after the team finished 5-11 or worse (bad enough that they had the pick in from of Cleveland, who was established as 5-11 team), so there is a presumption that he's got some major holes in his roster. So instead of taking the only potential franchise QB in the draft or trading his 6th pick in the draft to a team with a later 1st rounds pick for their 1st round pick and some additional picks or players, he panics and COMPLETELY BAILS ON THE FIRST ROUND OF HIS FIRST DRAFT!!!!! Seriously, he thinks the best move for his crappy team is to not pick one of the first 38 players taken.

Furthermore, why was he so panicked by the 6th pick of the draft? Cleveland took a mid 1st rounder with the first pick of the draft, but it was stated that teams 2-5 all took the players that they were expected to, so his only big decision at that point in the draft was Callahan (the consensus #1 pick of the draft 24 hours earlier) or whatever player he was already planning to take at 6. They even had him shout out "and there goes my back up" when the number 4 team takes their player. Are we supposed to believe an NFL GM (even a new one) went into a draft with the 6th pick, and had no idea about the needs of the mere 5 teams picking in front of him AND only had 2 players on his 1st round draft board? If Callahan was the consensus #1 pick and Seattle needed a QB enough that their fans were burning the GM in effigy for not taking him, wouldn't most teams have at least a general idea of who the 2nd pick of the draft was going to be? Even if the team stopped creating scenarios from there, only 4 players off the draft board that weren't expected (Mack and whomever got taken 3, 4 and 5).

The movie was just filled with football absurdities that I couldn't get past, like the silly GM actions, the fact that of the top 7 teams in the draft, only 1 of them needs a QB (including the 5th worst team in the league, Denver, already having an All-Pro QB), no team that actually needs a QB knows how to offer any of those 7 teams a trade so they can draft the only franchise QB available that year, a Head Coach of a team good enough to win a Super Bowl getting fired in the off season and taking a job in Cleveland, but his old team was good enough that they weren't picking in the top 7 picks and the fact that Cleveland is seen as having an "amazing" draft day after essentially taking a guy they could have gotten at 14 with the number 1 pick and taking a RB people saw as having off field issues with the number 7. The 2 biggest sillinesses of all were the idea that after Cleveland takes the RB at 7, their work is over and they've "won" (except now they don't have a 2nd round pick and still have to in the 3rd-7th rounds, where experts say the draft is really "won") and , this is just the draft, and we have no idea if anyone Cleveland made all these moves to get is actually any good in the NFL. Zero championships have been won in the draft room, and players bust all the time.

I get where this is a movie, and isn't supposed to be 100% real or even all about football as much as relationships and other stuff, but I felt like I was watching a movie made by people who didn't have any proper understanding of the context of its setting. It would be like making a movie about baseball, but having the same starting pitcher in every game and a batter walking after 3 balls.

[–] kaiser071 10 years ago

I thought it was the fact they didn't have the money to pay his bonus or something which is why he bought him after the 7 million reduction.

[–] kobrickmamba 11 years ago

the part that burns me the most is that he trades 3 straight number one picks (7th pick of 2014, 2015 and 2016 pick)for a "cant miss" player and then he doesnt take him after all LMAO. teams have actually made the pick for first overall before they were even on the clock which im sure would have happened in this case.

the jacksonville gm and seattle gm would have been choked to death on the spot by their owners if they made those deals.

so basically he gets a great punt returner "b/c he said so" and the number 1 pick of the draft for his 2nd round pick in 2014 2015 and 2016.

[–] kostcr20 11 years ago

so basically he gets a great punt returner "b/c he said so" and the number 1 pick of the draft for his 2nd round pick in 2014 2015 and 2016.

Actually, in the end, he got the LB that he wanted all along (the green note), the RB that his coach really wanted, and a good punt returner. And the end result of what he gave up was 3 2nd round picks. Still a relatively high price to pay.

[–] DevastatngDiva 11 years ago

OP, you are looking at this as a fantasy player and not a real life GM. All of the trades made were similar to RL draft trades. The first trade demand by the Seahawks was based on the 2012 WAS trade for RG3. The Browns/Jaguars trade was a carbon copy of the 2011 ATL trade for Julio Jones.

You may have missed that (1) None of the fans were happy with the Vontae Mack pick (they booed harder than Phili fans when the Eagles chose McNabb over Ricky Williams) and (2) Weaver was going to be fired on the spot. If he had not "fixed the problem" with the Jaguars and Seahawks trades, The analysts would have interrupted their 10th pick projection talk with news of the Weaver firing.

The final trade with the Seahawks wasn't a bad trade. The only reason they traded the #1 pick was because they didn't have the salary cap room. In the end, they were able to get the guy they wanted with a cheaper price tag. The only thing they really gave up was a S/T player (who, IRL, is always expendable).

[–] LarryKingGeoff 11 years ago

The Jacksonville/Cleveland trade was no where near the real life Atlanta/Cleveland trade. Cleveland managed to stay in the first round as well as picking up a first round pick the next year, along with a second that year, a fourth that year and a fourth the next year. Much more value than some crappy twos.

[–] blyndfolded 11 years ago

In real life Sonny would have been the laughing stock in sports but in this stupid movie, they made it out that Cleveland were winners in the draft and Sonny is a genius.

Everyone outside his circle jerk would know how stupid he is.

He trades up to get the 1st overall pick and reaches with it by picking a guy who would've been pick in the late teens at best. And has to pay him 1st overall money.

Then trades 3 2nd rounders to get the 6th, then flip it to get his picks back and a punt receiver.

And this was considered a win by the media? Dumb.

Ahh...your telling me the media wouldn't think that hey! why didn't he just kept his 7th pick and trade for a mid first rounder. Instead of losing 3 2nd round picks and over paying the guy you selected 1st.

But hey they got Vontae a guy whose taking care of his nephews and has a lame ass brass knuckle phone cover.

This movie f'n sucks.

[–] LarryKingGeoff 11 years ago

This movie was f'n sucks

[–] dudewheresmybawlz 11 years ago

I know right? ESPN would have exploded as a whole if they passed on a player "better than Luck".
Jon Gruden would have exploded.
Ron Jaworski would have exploded.
Adam Schefter's phone would have exploded.

What made the movie suck is that we are meant to feel good about them doing these moves, yet we literally see none of the payoff. We just see them in the tunnel getting ready for a game. For all we know Mack could have averaged 5 tackles a game and the RB average 3.0 YPC.

Chili P is my signature.

[–] Ripe_Legend 11 years ago

Why would he be a laughing stock?

He started the day with 7th pick and ended the day with 1st, 7th and punt returner [who will be a starter] in exchange for three 2nd round picks. Basically, he traded three 2nd round picks for 1st overall and punt returner! I'd say that is a huge win by any standard...

Would he be a laughing stock during the day? Yeah, he would, and we got to see some of it in the movie in reactions to his 1st pick. But at the end of the day he would be seen as winner.

[–] blyndfolded 11 years ago

Because he used the 1st pick to pick a guy that was going to be drafted in the late teens. In any sport if you did that you'd be the laughing stock. He was reaching big time.

[–] Ripe_Legend 11 years ago

At the end of the day he managed to get 1st overall and punt returner in exchange for three second round picks. So no, he wouldn't be a laughing stock. Because that is an amazing deal.

Would they question his decision to taking as #1 a guy he could have got at #7? Of course they would! And we actually saw them do just that in the movie. In the end, he took his #7 pick and turned it into three "potentially impactfull players first team"... did he overpay for some of those players? Most likely, but how is that different than paying Jay Cutler 126m?

[–] blyndfolded 11 years ago

Just because he got the 1st overall pick for 3 2nd rounders doesn't automatically make it an amazing deal. It's who you pick with the 1st overall that makes it amazing. And he used that pick to pick a guy that was slated to be picked in the late teens. That's a wtf and a laughable moment around sport talks.

How everything unfolded is ridiculous anyways.

[–] Ripe_Legend 11 years ago

No, getting 1st overall for three 2nd round picks is excellent deal. Using that 1st overall on a guy he could have got at #7 is another matter.

But in any case, guy he took wasn't "slated to be picked in the late teens"... until Sony made a trade with Seattle he was predicted to go at #7 to Browns, it was only after that trade he fell to mid teens.

Problem is, we don't know why he would drop to #15 if Sonny didn't take him at #7... it could be because teams picking ahead are already covered at his position. Or maybe they have a bigger hole on another position and they had to fill that first. Another problem is that we don't know where would that RB he got with #7 went...

Sony would be questioned about how he used his picks [and he was straight away after his #1 pick] but he would be praised about getting them. And in the end, it would all depend on how those players turn out: if they win, nobody would care about overpaying some of them.

Did things unfolded in ridiculous way... hard to say. Most likely yes, but there were some rather weird trades going on in the past [like giving ALL your picks and first and third round pick next year to move from #12 to #5 or giving two first round and two second round picks for a coach!] but giving #6 for three second round picks is insane. They did made a point of establishing Jaguars GM as incompetent rookie [seriously, everyone pick who they were predicted to pick and by #4 both his primary and backup were off the board???]. Second Seattle trade... hard to say since we don't know WHY Seattle wanted the first trade to begin with [there was mention of Salary Cap issues but it was vague].

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] MovieMystro 11 years ago

See Matt Millen during his Detroit Lion days.