MovieChat Forums > Before Midnight (2013) Discussion > I felt so hurt by this movie

I felt so hurt by this movie

posted 10 years ago by ccjthorose
35 replies | jump to latest

I can't believe that Richard, Julie and Ethan wrote this, it just felt like such a betrayal to Jesse and Celine. I get what they were trying to show - a middle aged couple who had grown and changed, who fight and fck and talk and tease and live day to day lives together….but I feel like it just missed.

First of all, I didn't enjoy it deviating from the long shot of them just being together. I'm not here to watch them talk to other people in separate scenes, I'm here to see them together. The beginning in the car was so strong, but then it stumbled.

And Celine was just toxic. She was always a strong and slightly neurotic character, but she was so MEAN in this. She was constantly slipping passive aggressive digs at him throughout the conversations, and in that fight scene she was behaving like a teenager. She wasn't listening or engaging or compromising like a mature woman, she was just looking for ways to hurt him. And I HATED the suggestion that they had been unfaithful to each other. It was just unnecessary and it really said to me, there is no hope here, this relationship is dead.

I feel like they've broken up with me.

[–] wuyuni 10 years ago

I agree... It just wasn't the same couple. It was a different couple a different movie. At the end trying to tie it in with saying "So if you saw that girl on the train would you ask her to go with you" just felt cheap somehow. They were not the same people

[–] DanSilov 10 years ago

It is the same couple, just after 9 years together. It's kinda natural progression of relationships. First movie was hopelessly romantic, the second was somewhat sobering, while the third is downright depressing, as it should've been.

And yet in each episode of "Before" ending leaves some glimmer of hope. Will they meet or not in 6 months? Will they stay together after they've found each other? Will they manage to work on and fix their relationship?

[–] HalBanksy 9 years ago

It's kinda natural progression of relationships.

Your expectations of 'love' are pretty low.
You can (and should) aim for better than this level of negativity in a life partner.

[–] imajestr 10 years ago

I mean, isn't that sort of the point of the film? Yeah, it doesn't have the same pleasant hopefulness as the other films, but that's clearly the intention here. Those other movies are almost too good to be true. In fact, they are. Especially the first, which feels like pure fantasy.

I agree that this film is pretty heartbreaking, but isn't it for a good reason? It may not be pleasant to think of these characters turning out this way, but I sort of love it for that very reason. I think the filmmakers wanted to capture something raw and real rather than naive and full of possibility. They're an imperfect middle-aged couple. They've made mistakes, and this is just a single fight. It doesn't mean their relationship is over. In fact, I think by the end what you come to realize is that they're only fighting because they still have a lot of passion and love for each other, though it has changed over the years, and a lot of problems they've never dealt with are coming to a head.

Just like the other movies, the end tests your beliefs about relationships. Are you a cynic or a romantic? Personally, I think they are going to pull through, but they've got a lot of work to do. And I don't consider myself a romantic.

PS. I don't want this to come off as me belittling your take to the film. When I saw it, I was so mad at the characters I sat there with my arms crossed and my jaw clenched and wanted to throw things at the screen, but only because I've come to care about them.

[–] wuyuni 10 years ago

i think the "romantic or cynic" is the whole question the filmmakers were always thinking of and sort of the way every film is intended to end but I think this time it was just too forced. Just bc they got married they had to make it real ugly fight to be able to ask that question "Will they pull through or is this the end?" That's the whole reason I didn't really like the film. And people saying it was so real and raw to be honest I think that is just so painful to live and how can people have kids and subject them to such pain?

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] wuyuni 10 years ago

RIght thank you for pointing that out. Though I do not think if they were married or not is the most important point. point is they had to go through the same issues. I did not expect fairy tale for them but even so it was too artificial to make the final question be "Will they stay together or not"

[–] imajestr 10 years ago

to be honest I think that is just so painful to live and how can people have kids and subject them to such pain?

I hope you're not implying that people don't do this in real life. Is what you find so upsetting the fact that this may in fact be a glimpse of the real raw emotion long-term couples go through? Did you want a glossier picture? One that pretends this sort of thing doesn't happen?

There are so many Hollywood movies that already give us the glossed over happy ending bull crap. What would this film be if it just gave us more of that?

It is definitely an upsetting movie, but it's supposed to be. They took the series in a surprising direction. It was a brave thing to do, and you clearly seem affected by it, and isn't that what art is for? To affect people?

[–] wuyuni 10 years ago

NO I'm completely aware this kind of *beep* happens in real life and I don't really watch glossy movies because they actually make me more upset when it's this lalaland fairy tale thing with no real people. I just still think it's incredibly selfish to make kids suffer through all this because I know many kids who couldn't handle these kinds of *beep* And I think it's kind of sad that so many say this is so realistic. It's actually very Hollywood.

[–] jobseeker95479 10 years ago

What kind of suffering the kids had gone through in *this* movie? Being abandoned by their parents for a night because the parents were given a free pass of romantic rendezvous in a hotel?

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] jobseeker95479 10 years ago

> The 'suffering' of the twin girls wasn't because of being left alone for a night but
> the possibility of being uprooted from France to Chicago, missing their grandparents,
> leaving their school and so on.

"Possibility" means it hasn't happened, right?

> Jesse's son from his first marriage already suffered through their parents' divorce and
> arguing. If Jesse and Celine continue to argue and say hurtful things to each other in
> front of their girls, the twins will also be deeply affected by their parents' behavior

Jesse and Celine fought while they were alone in the hotel room in the movie, there is really no "continue* here (in fact they do seem like a loving family when they were in the car or when Celine was with the twins in the garden.) So basically what you are saying is any couples who had fought at any given point of time are selfish.

[–] wuyuni 10 years ago

As Ruben already said Jessie's teen son suffered. That's what happens when you think marriage only involves two people. I didn't like how they killed Celine's character by making her careless about him like Jessie wanting to be with his son was like being a babysitter to a teenager who should be independent enough(Teens actually need close adult guidance more than anyone.) And do you intend to suggest people perfectly keep their fights separated from the kids? I was not just talking about one fight in a hotel room. Kids pick up even the tiniest bad mood parents have and more suffering comes with life even if it's not immediate.

[–] imajestr 10 years ago

I just find it very interesting that your main critique of the movie has nothing to do with poor writing, acting, or directing. It's merely the fact that you feel betrayed by the characters. This proves, to me, that the movie was a success.

I think it's funny how people have such a sense of ownership over characters they love. Basically, what you're saying is that you would have done this film differently. But you didn't make the film and you never will, and you have to take it for what it is and judge it not on what you wish it was or what you hoped it would be, but what it actually is.

I'm not saying your approach is a bad thing. In fact, you were very direct in the title of this post--You felt hurt by the characters in this movie.

You were supposed to.

[–] wuyuni 10 years ago

Umm... I don't know if you replied to the wrong person. The thread makes it seem like you replied to me. I am not the one who wrote the title of the thread. Plus I didn't feel hurt by the movie. But I personally don't think the film intended to make the audience feel that way. In interviews, the director sees the film as a mirror to people's idea about relationships. Anyway, I think the OP has every right to feel ownership to the characters because that is what fictive characters are meant for. You are supposed to feel connected to them and have emotional bond. It is not "basically saying" she would have made the movie differently. There are people who like to analyze how the film is constructed and its value as a piece of art (same thing is done with literature) and there are just regular watchers that talk about the characters, their likes dislikes etc. The OP also raises valid points about the writing. The conversation with other people were just out of place and boring and a deviation from the previous formats. The whole constant fighting belittling and change of character may seem like irrelevant complaints to you but they seemed too out of character (though the writers call that growth and passage of time) which equals poor writing. Anyway, it is kind of pointless to talk about how this is a fiction we didn't create when people are sharing the experience of being invited to the Celine and Jessie universe.

[–] jobseeker95479 10 years ago

> As Ruben already said Jessie's teen son suffered. That's what happens when you think
> marriage only involves two people. I didn't like how they killed Celine's character by
> making her careless about him like Jessie wanting to be with his son was like being a
> babysitter to a teenager who should be independent enough(Teens actually need close
> adult guidance more than anyone.)

What did Hank (Jesse's son from his first marriage) suffer from? From what we see in the movie, Hank appears to be well adjusted to his parents' divorce and a friendly relationship with his stepmother. It was Jesse who was feeling guilty for not being able to be around his son. In fact Hank has specifically said he does NOT want Jesse to be around when he (Hank) is with his mother because it will only made it uncomfortable for everyone, which is what Celine tried to explain to Jesse. In that regard Celine actually understands Hank's feeling better than Jesse does. For the sake of argument, let's just supposed Hank was suffering from his parents' divorce, but how did that happen? That would be when Jesse decided to miss his plane in order to rekindle his relationship with Celine in 'Before Sunset', when he was already married with a son. If it is the alleged suffering of children that bothers you, why should this only became an issue in 'Before Midnight'?

> And do you intend to suggest people perfectly keep their fights separated from the
> kids? I was not just talking about one fight in a hotel room. Kids pick up even the
> tiniest bad mood parents have and more suffering comes with life even if it's not
> immediate

I don't suggest the *constant* fighting between couple won't affect the children but do we have any evidence in the movie that Jesse and Celine are constantly bickering? Remember they had their fight when they were planning to have a romantic evening in the hotel. No couple would bother to go through with that if they don't have affection for each other. If only children from parents that had never fought *at all* could grow up to be normal, then we all are either psycho or suicidal

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] hamsterqueen2501 10 years ago

I agreed with everything you have said. Real relationships contain of happy moments (the infatuated moments/the obsessive moments) and sad moments (the downfall of the relationship). And the cycle goes forever, if the both decided to stick together, that's when two souls truly became one.

Plus, from the very first movie itself we can conclude that both of them - Jesse and Celine are both adventurous and passionate people who's opinionated and somehow hard headed. It's a logical and realistic approach to place the both of them into such position where they both would love each other so much that they tend to possess each other, change each other into someone they desire them to be, or they thought it was for the best. I'm pretty sure most of us have been through this stage in relationship before, the very emotional period where one would be so aggressive and the other would try to conform at first but slowly drift away. That's when all the frustration and disappointment take place.

The film also mirrored the 21st society's love to us.

You will never know whether or not your love is true until you have withstand whatever challenges and difficulties that life has given to you, together. Or else, whatever fantasies and obsessions you both had for each other were just nothing but infatuation.

Know that dating and marriage are two different levels.

The LOVE concept society have these days were pretty much 'touch and go' i would say. People with relationships these days longed for that blood rushing fast paced romantic feelings and refused to deal with conflicts and arguments, or find it hard to understand that conflicts are supposedly, part of relationship, any sort of relationship actually. They don't fix broken things, they choose to throw away, and perhaps, buy a new one.

I guessed that's what we want in general, just a good female/male friend to talk and converse and have fun with, without needed to commit into anything serious.

And this particular film, is telling all of us to wake up from fantasy, it is time for reality now. I would love to see what's next. Perhaps they might offer some wonderful solutions to Jesse and Celine? Let's see.

[–] RickVee 10 years ago

You say Before Sunrise is like pure fantasy - so you didn't like it?

[–] jackiefoxybrown 10 years ago

I have the same concerns, however, it's similar to real life. I'd take this any day over a Jennifer Lopez/Jennifer Aniston rom com(shudders).
Couples in real life always have that spark initially, but after comfort sets in...everyone stops being on their best behavior. I hate that, are all couples like this? Does being in the relationship begin feeling like a dead end job ultimately?

[–] Whoah10115 10 years ago

This shouldn't have been a story of Jesse and Celine.

I really don't need to see them every nine years...it even sounds like novelty.

[–] PhenomenalDiva 10 years ago

If you are a true fan of this couple, than you would see the complex reality of their relationship. This movie is not about the white european patriarchal sanctity of marriage, but more about the downs of relationships.

[–] jeff4711 10 years ago

This reply to "ccjthorose" I just watched the wonderful "Before Midnight". Having already watched the two previous films i was apprehensive as what to expect from this 3rd instalment. Your point about not wanting to see them having separate scenes but 'to see them together', yes that's the wonderful thing about the 'before' trilogy, it's not your typical 'car crash Hollywood movie'and i love the intimate dialogue and close cropping of the characters in these films, it's mature and you really get a sense of the characters. I did think Celine was toxic in the hotel bedroom scene, but then i thought to myself...'am i being Sexist and just taking the male point of view, but no i think overall it was Jesse who tried to reason more so than Celine. I can remember speaking like him in my own relationship..he says he loves her and is devoting himself to her and the kids...what more does she want? I can see what you mean when you said 'you hated the suggestion that they had been unfaithful to each other' but i think the director was trying to include a more mature grown up debate that in real life does happen. What i think saves the bitterness and the realisation that this might be the beginning of the end was when Jesse made up the story of the 'time machine' and Celine said 'so what about this time machine...well how does it work?' 'Am i gonna have to get naked to operate it?' I then realised the romance was back on and maybe your a romantic...in-fact i know your a romantic and i suppose we all are at heart...i know i am and it seemed all ok in the end...but this instalment really did involve all those *beep* things that happen in life and relationships and you think 'what's it all about'....the answer is, it's just life and we have to take the good with the bad, but what we have to do is just try that bit harder to make the good happen a hell of a lot more times than the bad.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] ericcathlives 10 years ago

If you wanted to stick with an ending that leaves a hope for an adolescent fantastical love induced happily ever after, you should have stopped at the Sunrise. Sunset sets up these characters perfectly if you actually listened to the dialogues. "listening or engaging or compromising like a mature woman"... What from Before Sunset gave you the impression that she would grow into someone who would do those things? This movie beautifully shows what happens after marriage, where reality kicks in and couples have to learn to live with one another, to put up with one another. It is no longer a feat of cherishing every moment you spend together, which was obviously the case with the first two movies as they spent less than a day together in between years.

The ending to this movie was uplifting to me. You misunderstood if you think the relationship is dead. It is not dead. They decide to finally start working on it and try to get it to stick.