Catherine is a psychopath, it was evident when she cut herself with a blade. She obviously has a messed up past and I think that's what the last bit of the pilot was all about. Hopefully we find more about her relationship with her dad as the story progresses.
sharePsychopath is a wrong word to use here. If you watched the original Danish, her step-father raped her when she was a child, he never got punished, and she ended up cutting herself later when she was growing up as a result. Of course, it was already implied by the 1st trailer.
shareshhh....spoilers, yo.
Oh well, at least I know now already. Cat's out of the bag.
True, not a psychopath but a sociopath. Her behavior result from sociological factors. I liked the first episode but the second one was bad.
shareIt reminds me of Karen Carpenter only hanging onto her brother..while at the same time the actor is a very nice person.
27 | 5'3 | 155 pounds | brown hair | green eyes | mixed race
Self mutilation does not necessarily correlate with psychopathic tendencies. It can be due to a past trauma, which i think is the case in this show. Looking forward to more character development!
share[deleted]
Cutting is not a symptom of being a psychopath.
shareNo, it isn't... I think the show's hinting with some other things that she has tendencies that way, but the cutting is something else.
I'm intrigued by the character's complex psychology. She could keep a team of psychiatrists interested and occupied for some considerable time, if she'd be honest with them! Which she would not, of course.
I wonder how she beat the psych exam to become a police officer.
You see, sometimes people mistake a child as an answer for something.
I was wondering about the same thing! How could someone who's not in the right state of mind get through all the police checks and tests?
shareShe might have been holding herself together well for a long time but dealing with a serial killer case which apparently had some parallels with her own trauma stirred things up.
shareI think that's probably true, but I believe that there are also some very serious things wrong with her, at core, as a permanent thing.
Despite the recklessness we've seen, I guess she must be very smart. It is not easy to fake out a psych exam, and I don't think there's any way she got as far as Homicide without a fair bit of screening.
You see, sometimes people mistake a child as an answer for something.
Oh yea, I agree that she's been very messed up inside since whatever happened in her childhood and smart enough to come across as "normal" most of the time. She's not a sociopath but has in common with them the ability to play a role or put on a mask based on other people's desires and expectations.
It might not be that hard for someone who is disturbed but lucid to fool a psychological test; of course depending on the sophistication of the test. The city bureaucracy of Pittsburgh isn't the CIA. If you have a strong sense of what is considered normal, it might be possible to give the answers which reflect these expectations.
There are tests meant to bypass the consious mind by asking for an automatic response to ambiguous imagery or words, but these have been largely discredited. If they worked they would be ideal because in theory they were supposed to be hard to figure out by someone who hadn't studied them.
Physical tests are a possibility, but polygraphs are much less reliable than pop culture assumes and I doubt ordinary police use sophisticated brain scanning and imaging techniques which can reveal a huge amount of information about a person completely bypassing conscious effort on their part.
Oh I agree, they'd just give her verbal and written questions, those kinds of tests. Still, people do often fail those. Perhaps her understanding that she isn't like other people helps - I would guess that those who don't pass the psych screenings often think that they're fine, and everyone is like them. Catherine seems to me to be well aware that this is not the case for her.
You see, sometimes people mistake a child as an answer for something.
It's an interesting issue. I've had problems with serious depression and really disturbing intrusive obsessive thoughts so I've been evaluated and tested in different ways (but mostly direct questions). I never tried to fool the tests to appear more normal, because these were times when I realized I needed help.
But it was obvious to me what the questions were probing for. 'Do you think about death a lot?', 'Do you have a suicide plan?', 'Is it difficult to maintain relationships with friends and loved ones?', 'Do you worry a lot about things that other people consider strange?' These would obviously be looking for problem areas while answering yes to questions about hope for the future, an active lifestyle and so on would be taken (if believed) as evidence of doing well.
I guess there are people who would have no concept of how others might respond to their attitude toward life. What do you do to relax after work?--About ten drinks settles me down and even helps me drive better. If you found a co-worker's wallet what would you do?--Keep it, obviously. If you saw an old lady falling down the stairs what would you do?--Oh, man, that would be hilarious;I'd have to take a picture!
This would be a horrible person on one hand but somehow touching in their utter naivete.
I would say that Catherine is in fact a psychopath - remember, not all psychopaths are serial killers. Using Hare's psychopathy checklist we can see as viewers that she exhibits, most if not all behaviours in the pilot.
Sign One - Glib and Superficial Charm: This is exhibited when she turns up late to the lecture and makes everyone laugh, also seen when she tries to exchange pleasantries with Shaffer's wife.
Sign Two - Grandiosity: have you seen her apartment? Also tracking the killer alone.
Sign Three - Need for stimulation: She is a regular smoker, she drinks and cuts herself. Hare's checklist includes ALL forms of stimulation, so the self-mutilation is a stimulant, it stimulates pain.
Sign Four - Pathological Lying: We see this throughout.
Sign Five - Lack of Remorse: She shows no guilt over taking a human life, no matter how vile that life was.
the list goes on and on and she really does more or less conform to the entire checklist. Also if we are to assume that something happened in her childhood - my guess, is that her brother was killed and her father didn't do enough/may be to blame. If we are to assume that this is the case, than it is logical that the repression of negative feelings have caused these behaviours, which often seem over-compensating, or under-compensating, she is trying to ACT normal, and in doing so is in fact revealing herself to be a psychopath. Also Catherine identifies herself as a psychopath by including a portrait of her house among other psychopath's houses. Someone who belongs in that house is a psychopath, either Catherine herself or her father. Further to Catherine knowing she is a psychopath is the ending scene 'That was my house. This is why i found you.' - Catherine could be admitting to Shaffer that she NEEDS help, that she knows what she is capable of and needs his help to control it, or therapy to help her deal with it.
Also if we look at the writing 'this is why i found you', it is placed directly above her father's head - further evidence to him being a psychopath - perhaps her brother's killer?
Sometimes an accident can be an unhappy womans best friend
But I don't see where she can be a psychopath and be motivated by a desire, no matter how twisted the form it takes, to protect the innocent from predators. She lies to protect herself or help her get the job done, not for personal gain or using others to amuse herself. I think she has a sense of right and wrong and emotional depths.
Her beliefs may contradict the law and be more at home in a warrior culture, but she cares about justice as she perceives it. I wonder if she might have quite a few vigilante killings in her past and the recent promotion to Homicide gives her more direct access to her desired targets.
I have a feeling a lot of bastards are going to surrender only to end up dead with a gun or knife planted in their hand. I disapprove of this sort of thing, but in fiction it's kind of gratifying when the villain is bad enough.
Totally agree about her vigilantism. That, I'm sure we'll see more of, and I also agree there may be more of it in her past as well.
"Warrior" is an apt term. In another era, a personality like this could have been a legendary fighter and battle leader.
You see, sometimes people mistake a child as an answer for something.
ehaas-3, I think you summed up my feelings on her as well. From what I understand about those with anti-social personality disorder, they're not able to feel empathy for others. She clearly felt empathy for the victims, esp the one she found in the box. It looked like her eyes teared up as she was hugging the victim.
As for her killing the killer, I think it was a case of snapping. We already know that she suffered some type of truama of being abused as a child(being closed up in a box as punishment when growing up), so the killer putting her in the enclosed thing (sorry, wasn't sure what it was - refrigerator?) likely made her snap.
I'm an automatic steeple for depressed and lonely people. ~ Blue October
Thanks. She does seem to care about victims a lot and suffer deeply from the pain of her childhood. I'm not sure if kiling the guy was just losing control, though. She looked like she was trying to get to be alone with him and make it seem natural, as I interpreted it on my first view. I'm going to watch it again and I really hope they start making episodes soon.
There are different theories of what constitutes sociopathy or psychopathy with the American anti-social personality disorder concept being a makor one. Then specialists who devote their careers to studying it sometimes have theories and paradigms that differ from the official views. But almost always, the lack of empathy is a key symptom, especially when coupled with a predatory or exploitative lifestyle preference.
agreed!
shareI would say that Catherine is in fact a psychopath - remember, not all psychopaths are serial killers. Using Hare's psychopathy checklist we can see as viewers that she exhibits, most if not all behaviours in the pilot.
Glib and Superficial Charm: This is exhibited when she turns up late to the lecture and makes everyone laugh, also seen when she tries to exchange pleasantries with Shaffer's wife.
Sign Two - Grandiosity: have you seen her apartment? Also tracking the killer alone.
Sign Three - Need for stimulation: She is a regular smoker, she drinks and cuts herself. Hare's checklist includes ALL forms of stimulation, so the self-mutilation is a stimulant, it stimulates pain.
Sign Four - Pathological Lying: We see this throughout.
Sign Five - Lack of Remorse: She shows no guilt over taking a human life, no matter how vile that life was.
the list goes on and on and she really does more or less conform to the entire checklist.
It's the little things too. She sexted (totally a word!) Paul in order to make sure he would leave work to meet her than she ditches him because she had to go to work. If I was a writer this sort of thing would be foreshadowing to a very tragic end.
shareThis scene was discussed in another thread. She actually sexted the wrong man and thus left herself open for blackmail. She does seem like she's careening toward disaster and will take many others down with her.
However, this self-destructive behavior doesn't seem like what we think of as a psychopath. That is, one whose goal is to hurt others. She just seems like a basket case with power. This series will end in a disaster.
It's interesting you note that by using sexy pics she can "make sure" a guy will do what she wants. This is certainly the truth in my experience!
Sign Five - Lack of Remorse: She shows no guilt over taking a human life, no matter how vile that life was.
The remorse should be for the self. Not the death of a vile perp. Remorse at having to carry out a killing that could have been avoided is another thing. Train drivers who hit suicidal jumpers etc should feel for themselves and the jumper I am sorry is an unthinking yet sad sorry person. Suicide may be painless if it works but the hurt to others left in the wake of it another thing. Suicide by cop allegedly a growing trend. If only the cops could take them alive to make the sad life more unbearable. Suicide is SELFISH and is frequently used to punish others.
However the character in question here does have so many underlying psychiatric problems which have caused her development into a functioning nut job. I for a long time have been a suffer in silence individual and express my dissatisfaction with something in a humorous yet perhaps sarcastic manner. At times I feel I might explode with rage and who knows if I lived in the US of A what might be possible.
In a cops case taking the life is of no importance if correct and unavoidable. It is the self that needs to treated. If it can be shrugged off as it used to be so what. How do you think the american gunners on the helicopters in Vietnam felt shooting thousands of rounds into the *beep* villages. They convinced themselves they were shooting rats or other vermin.
Same today in the middle east with the gunners perhaps being desensitized by video games or Zombie movies and series. Dehumanise the enemy first then send in the killers.
I would say that a great many police who try to do a good job find themselves jaded by the legal shenanigans, politics in the forces, and who knows corruption around and in the whole system. What is the klling of a VILE being who may not deserve to have ever drawn breath.
Watched this in a binge session last year and now cannot really remember the outcome. I like Chloe and was just checking her out as having been in AHS. Hit and Miss was very good but no follow up. This particular series can not have had great audience figures.
A lot of people can get past those checks, especially Antisocial Personality Disorder. I have known some pretty crazy police officers, seen one retire with honors. Won't go into detail but let's just say I wouldn't be surprised if he has murdered a couple of women at the very least.
So yeah, like any trap, some make it through the cracks.
[deleted]
Her father abused her horribly, her mother didn't interfere.
She killed them both making it look like an accident. She has a photo of her house among the photos of other sociopaths/killers houses. She doesn't know what to think of herself and her past keeps screwing with her head. She hopes that a brilliant profiler will help her to better understand who she is (is she a cop? is she a murderer? is she a psychopath who needs to be locked up, does her daughter needs to be protected from..her?), maybe 'fix" her. :D
Just a guess.
parts of this (what you're saying) make me think so much of .. Well, have you seen Luther? .. But I'm not getting this from Catherine myself.. Although I'm only on ep two, so we'll see! š
shareGrrr. The person a few posts before this: She doesn't have a daughter, and she didn't kill her parents. Her mother is in the current episode, and her step father is the one who possibly abused her in the past, at least from what I've gotten from the show. And imo, she's definitely troubled but is not a psychopath, and I don't think socio either. Just has issues.
"Not all who wonder are lost."--J.R.R. Tolkien