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Chloe/Daniel subtext, Daniel's emotional progression

posted 8 years ago by Whatlarks
5 replies | jump to latest

I'd like to speak to some subtext in the Chloe-Daniel scene. It's been building for a few episodes. I think there's a unity to it, related to Daniel's emotional progression.

Daniel snaps at Chloe, and of course anger is a measure of how much someone cares. In this case, about several things, which have a big cumulative force. I find this response faithful to what we sometimes do when we're very afraid of a truth someone is telling us. We shoot the messenger.

The stakes are high with counseling, but I don't think just for Daniel, and I think he's intuiting this. I think he's becoming aware of who the other beneficiary might be, and why she's pushing this course of action while she's away. There will be a birth; but I think Chloe also hopes to see a rebirth.

Looking at the progression, there's this, from #403, Bob & Carol & Ted Jr & Alice:

DANIEL
What's your deal?

CHLOE
What do you mean?

DANIEL
Regarding me.

...

CHLOE
Look, I don't have myself completely
figured out yet, so I can't ascribe a
clear motive to my every action and
desire. But I can say that I'm not
looking for a longtime companion
or a sex partner, for that matter.

Then from ep. 404, Go Ask Roger:

DANIEL
I don't know what it is we're
we're doing.

CHLOE
We're just getting to know
each other.

DANIEL
I thought you were going to
your sister's.

CHLOE
What does that have to do
with it?

It has everything to do with it. "Going to your sister's" is of course a long interruption in a relationship barely started. They're developing an intimacy, and he's worried the rug's going to be pulled out from under. Why is she sharing herself intimately, involving him in intimate things? Why bother?

The answer, I think, is she is testing the water. Dipping a foot, hesitant to dive in.

More from ep. 404:

DANIEL
You don't owe me anything,
Chloe. If it's only this day,
I'll take it.

CHLOE
Sometimes I just freak out
thinking about having a baby
alone. Having a baby with
someone. Having a baby.

DANIEL
Now, that sounds perfectly
normal.

CHLOE
I never used to think like that,
though.

DANIEL
Like what?

CHLOE
Of the future.

DANIEL
Me neither.

CHLOE
What am I worried about, then?

DANIEL
We're temporarily perfect for
each other. At least for today.

So in 406, when Daniel says "send me a postcard," I think he's really saying "I'm mad that you're going away, and I fear losing my connection with you." That's a radically different attitude than settling for "temporarily perfect for each other. At least for today."

Looking over this progression, I think what we're witnessing is Daniel starting to dare to think of the possibility of the future, a wholly new way of being for him. Specifically, he's begun to imagine a future with Chloe, no longer satisfied taking "only this day" with her. Put another way, he's begun to ask more of life.

Which brings us to Physics:

DANIEL
Thank you, Chloe, for all this.
It felt like... It felt like living.

CHLOE
I think it was living. I think
we might actually be living.

How far he's come from "This isn't real."

So everything is going great. He's feeling deeply connected. Alive. Normal. But right after he expresses this, Chloe reminds him of the elephant in the room, the terrifying obstacle to the newfound feeling of living. No wonder he snaps back! Because this is what he really thinks:

DANIEL
They so hoped I could be
put back together...
My family, sister, mom.
But I don't really see that
happening, Chloe, no matter
the surgeons who attend me.

In Physics, while Chloe's timing is hard, it segues naturally from the shared feeling of really living. I think she's saying "Please go to counseling, because I'm starting to think of the future with you in it. But I can't commit to that vision unless I see your commitment to healing."

She never used to think about the future, but she is now, with the baby coming. But there's a new influence pushing her to think of the future, because this man has come into her life and she's clearly developing strong feelings for him. But he's not ready.

If I'm reading the subtext correctly, Chloe has laid out the only means making her attainable. Daniel must see the surgeon and "attend" to putting himself back together. She had to do that when her brother died. Now she's sacrificing for her baby:

CHLOE
You can come back to the
co-op anytime you want, and
I will not glom on to you again.
Prometto.

DANIEL
Is that what you're doing glomming?

CHLOE
I have no idea what I'm doing. I gave
up pot and I gave up booze and I
gave up dairy. I've given up pretty
much everything except for hormones,
so I have no idea at this time as to
what it is that I am doing.

To my mind, the "baby" isn't just the infant, it's also their new, vulnerable relationship. Chloe does know what she's doing. Not in a calculated way; that's not how she operates. Like Daniel, she's an intuiter, if that's a word. She's asking him to sacrifice now; overtly this is about his own needs, but between the lines it's also about hers, and their fledgling relationship's.

Chloe doesn't say this directly. Maybe because she isn't so aware of it. Or maybe because she realizes it wouldn't be a good idea; she's a woman of her word, and making such a claim on him would be "glomming."

"You must not judge what I know by what I find words for." - Marilynne Robinson

[–] Mr_Fluffykins 8 years ago

i just have one this to add,
in S01E01, Drip, Drip, (sign_in_1234's version of pornography)

when Daniel gets back from the day with the goat man,(which i am not entirely sure happened, i have read a theory that Goat-man is the devil, and that was all just a dream, vision, altered state of consciousness. upon revewing this scene i am inconclusive about whether is actually happened, although the confrontation about the money, and the if it was gotten by ill means,

and mind my loose quotes,

but there is an interaction "where are you going?" ,"don't you know" ,"we do", "so if you know then why did you ask", "because we don't know how to talk to you"
the conversations reaches a near climax when Daniel says
"i am not even sure i am alive"

i know he told chloe that "this isn't real"

but i think the exchange about Daniel thinking he might be alive could be a reference too that, Daniels Evolution started from the moment the guard offered to tie his tie, and get him a coke

also interesting to note, on the transcripts, Amantha drops an F-bomb

Janet
I don't think I wanna do that, Amantha.

Amantha
Well, I guess we just wait, then.

Janet
I think so.
- He'll be--

Amantha
- *beep* up.
[
b]Janet[/b]
I'm gonna start finishing my own sentences.

it is interesting to note that on both the broadcast copy, and the netflix copy when she says *beep* up, there is a noticeable audio dip, i somewhat understand why they did it in broadcast(although thoroughly see the irony in the the graphic descriptions of rape not being censored, while *beep* is too much for the basic cable advertisers. but why the Netflix version? shouldn't that be uncensored, a show so raw with human emotion could use with some explicit release from time to time,
momments that could have used an f-bomb to heighten the tension
could include, words exchanged between amantha and almost anybody in town,
Lezlie with a Z, Daniel snapping at the masturbator,
although i applaud rectify for being able to deliver such emotions without those words, it isn't accurate how people would talk all the time in such f
cked up situations,

S04e01 nearly made me cry like four times, even on my sober second view,
s07e01 walking dead had me laughing like a cackling witch,
America.. the land of paradoxically hypocritical double standards on what is considered appropriate, no wonder there is so much violence,

[–] Whatlarks 8 years ago

The Goat Man:

I'd say that adventure was partly real, partly not. Recall that 1) Daniel is sleep-deprived, 2) he smokes the Goat Man's dope, and 3) during the journey he falls asleep. We know pretty well by now that drugs affect him unusually strongly. Things occur which are real, but "elaborated." You add sleep deprivation, that's a powerful cocktail.

I don't assume that the moments of Daniel's falling asleep and awakening are necessarily hard and fast signals of crossing the boundary between what is wholly real and hallucinated. I think the idea is that things flow pretty loosely, so that even when he seems to be awake not every moment can be assumed real.

He has an open-eyed fantasy-flashback to Kerwin visiting him in his cell. (Kerwin talks about knowing when he’s going to die, that it allows one to grieve one’s own death.)

As they return to town the Goat Man says "This is your trip, but you're about to turn a 360." Well, I don't think "Your trip" is only about a ride in a truck. And "turning a 360" means back where he started.

When the truck crosses the tracks - *ahem* - the red trailer is attached. But right after, when Daniel gets out and asks if the Man is real, the truck pulls away without the red trailer.

And Daniel definitely ends up with a big clip of money, as Janet and Amantha both see it. He tells them he doesn't know if it was "ill-gained."

Daniel himself doesn't associate the man with the devil. When he supposedly wakes up, the Goat Man is waiting to lead him blind to the sculpture. And Daniel says, “These are not the sayings of a man possessed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”

In the barn the Man makes a goat call, and a white goat comes to him. It recognizes his voice, as Jesus said of a true Shepherd. Moreover, another way to tell the true Shephered is that he who "entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, is a thief and a robber."

When Daniel sets out good clothes in his room to go to the baptism, he says something under his breath. He says, "Azazel." Amantha asks what he said. He replies "I couldn't think of his name."

Azazel, in older English versions of the Bible, such as King James, is translated "as a scapegoat." "[Azazel] appears in the Bible in association with the scapegoat rite. In some traditions of Judaism, and Christianity, it is the name for a fallen angel. In Rabbinic Judaism it is not a name of an entity but rather means literally 'for the complete removal,' ie, designating the goat to be cast out into the wilderness as opposed to the goat sacrificed 'for Yahweh.'"

Daniel tells Tawney the sculpture's girl held the head of another girl in her hand, and she had a goat's body. Everything he tells Tawney comes out the way a dream muddles events and images together. But in general, all of this comes out the night before his baptism, with his mind fixated on the possibility of cleansing himself. So there is the scapegoat, the purging of sin, beauty that hurts more than the ugly - figuratively Tawney and Hanna?

Daniel asks him "Are you going to run them off a cliff? Like swine?" The Goat Man replies, "You read too much." What Daniel read is Luke 8:33: "Then went the demons out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were drowned." He wonders if the Goat Man is going to take away sin, as in the story. Anticipating the baptism, I think these thoughts spring from his desperate hope that it will purge, and save him.

"You must not judge what I know by what I find words for." - Marilynne Robinson

[–] ToHelenBackAgain 8 years ago

Sure. I thought this was clear enough.

I also thought she was asking too much.

"It's JUDGE Bitch!"

[–] mme3924-1 8 years ago

I think he's really saying "I'm mad that you're going away, and I fear losing my connection with you." That's a radically different attitude than settling for "temporarily perfect for each other. At least for today."

Looking over this progression, I think what we're witnessing is Daniel starting to dare to think of the possibility of the future, a wholly new way of being for him. Specifically, he's begun to imagine a future with Chloe, no longer satisfied taking "only this day" with her. Put another way, he's begun to ask more of life.

He has made an attachment that means something to him, no doubt; he obviously is thinking of some kind of future, no matter how tenuous or brief. But he expects her to accept him as he is -- broken. And she's unwilling to do that, I think...and who could blame her? He says he doesn't want to dredge everything up, that he can't go through it again, but that's what counseling is: facing your fears, acknowledging them, overcoming them. I think it's more than that; I think he's also afraid of what he may find out about himself.

Nice idea about "the baby" being not just the fetus she is carrying but their tender new relationship.

I think it's possible he may go to Ohio with her on the condition he seek counseling there. It would be a solution, in a way. He would be far away from his mother and sister, which he seems to want, and away from everything reminding him of his past. Frankly, I don't understand Daniel's rejection of his mother, asking her to "let go". She doesn't appear to be trying to control him, she just wants to see him and be with him and would love to know he's okay. Denying her that is cruel, I think. But then I've apparently never really understood Daniel.

[–] Whatlarks 8 years ago

Daniel's pretty overt about the feelings behind his telling Janet to let him go:

DANIEL
Because every time I look
into your eyes, every time
I hear your voice, I see and
hear what I feel about myself.
You are my confirmation.

He goes on to explain succintly what he sees, and how it doesn't help, but hinders him, AND her.

I'm reminded of a similar scene in Michael Haneke's film Amour. An elderly man is struggling to care for his disabled wife at home, who's recently suffered two debilitating strokes. His daughter confronts him, insists more should be done, pours out her feelings. But she herself can't (or isn't willing), to help. Part of their exchange is this:

EVA
Don't you realize we're worried?

GEORGES
Your worries are no use to me.

She doesn't appear to be trying to control him, she just wants to see him and be with him and would love to know he's okay

Aside from Daniel's own words, I think understanding Janet is good prep for understanding Daniel's stance with her. His concern isn't that she's trying to control him. And not about her simply wanting to see him, and knowing he's okay.

"You must not judge what I know by what I find words for." - Marilynne Robinson