Putter - I was not citing the boards as fact - I was simply providing Son of Spam with places where some of the information from Callahan regarding E-500 was condensed... Callahan was cited document for document.... I think these websites like WM3 facts, yuku, Jive puppi (I know I said earlier that jive puppi was biased garbage, but as long as you fact check from Callahan, it can be helpful), etc. are great secondary sources if you know how to discriminate (i.e. fact check Callahan to ensure they are cited proper), because Callahan can be a bit overwhelming. While nothing substitutes taking the time to read everything on Callahan, some people don't have the time, so these websites that compile, condense, and organize documents from Callahan (in this case, E-500), make life easier at times...
I don't want to get into Hobbs here, because like I said, this thread was about Damien, and why he was a perfectly legitimate suspect, and has a background that suggests he's capable of murder. It was not used as evidence to show he DID commit the murders, because like I stated, E-500 is not evidence that he committed the murders, but merely to show that he WAS THE TYPE of person who was capable of committing the murders. Many people who listen to Damien and his chupacabras, or chalupas, as Trench calls them (quite humorously), buy into the fact he was just an average teenager who was a little dark, and weird, and stood out in his redneck hometown.
However, I'll go ahead and take the time to correct, or straight up debunk a few of your statements about Hobbs:
1.) Hobbs shot in self-defense a man who was attacking him in a rage. He did what most people would do if scared, and being attacked (and had a gun on them/in reach) - he reached for a gun and shot them. The force he used in self-defense was not the same level of force being used against him, but you make it out like he just shot some unarmed guy...
2.) Where is the proof he sexually abused children? The only people I've heard say this are hostile parties, and/or second, and thirdhand statements. Although, if I'm wrong here, please correct me (I have heard that he has a felony conviction on his record for something to do with a child, but again, nothing confirmed).
As far as physical abuse? The only believable info. I've heard is excerpt from Amanda's diary, and her statements about him "beating the hell out of her." Now would this count as child abuse? Or just being a strict, possibly even mean, father? Being spanked with a belt across the arse is not child abuse, IMO. I got whipped with a belt a few times as a kid, and I absolutely deserved it. I don't know why Amanda would be so friendly with him, and stick up for him on facebook (although Terry recently deactivated his account) if he was so horrible to her. Again, aside from second and thirdhand tales about Terry "beating" Stevie coming from hostile parties, there's nothing... Why would Pam continue to be married to the guy if she knew he was physically and/or sexually abusing Stevie? Why is she only coming out with it after they divorced and butting heads? Doesn't seem like something a mother would do if they really feared for their child like that.
However, if you have any credible sources of Terry sexually, or physically abusing children, let me know, and I'll stand corrected.
3.) There's nothing to prove Stevie was in possession of that knife the day of the murders. Just more *beep* from the drug-addled, abusing, hostile, and crazy Pam Hobbs. Absolutely nothing at all to prove this.
4.) He's only been implicated in the murder by convicted felons who actually are rapists... Haha and humorously, brought about by a lawyer with the surname "Swindle." Then the whole "Hobbs family secret" nonsense... If you can find any credibility whatsoever in this, I don't know how you can reject Jessie's confessions... Jessie had no reason to randomly implicate Damien and Jason - of all people, what are the chances he'd name two guys he wasn't even that good of friends with (who have no alibi). Jessie had no reason to randomly name them... These degenerate idiots have every reason to accuse Terry (money, attention, hatred of him, etc.) So yes, that is complete rubbish to "list" this... This thread didn't even have anything to do with the evidence against Damien, just his mental state to show that he was violent, and capable of violence, including murder.
So while Terry might have been an unscrupulous character, he certainly didn't have the sick mental health record of Damien, who was talking about killing people, and sucking/licking blood from people... You bringing up all this about Hobbs is not only irrelevant to Damien being a suspect, it still doesn't show Terry was "more capable" to murder than Damien. Terry could be violent, but not in the same sick way Damien was/could be. Because all that *beep* about Terry wasn't said until (conveniently) decades after the murders, by hostile parties. Many had motivation (financial, or other)....
I'm glad you don't believe Terry did it - those who do believe he did it are the ones who first accused Byers, and will eventually move on to probably start blaming some poor, old, homeless black fellow in the area as "Mr. Bojangles." Then they'll come full circle and blame Byers again...
There was definitely some unsavory folk in and around WM... But how many of them were implicated by a guy who confessed? How many had the recent mental history of Damien? How many did not have an alibi (yes, I know Terry doesn't have a complete alibi, but he can be accounted for shortly before, and after the murders took place, while Damien< jason and Jessie can't be accounted for all night)? How many had knives found in lakes behind their trailers that were capable of making an eerily similar wound-mark? It just gets to the point where you'd have to believe in a lot of coincidences to explain everything away...
BUT DAMN, all I wanted to do was show Damien was a legit suspect, as he should have been, because he was NOT just a "weird, dark, teenager."
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sonofspam1972
11 years ago
I was hoping you would be one of the few un-biased people here but you have proven that you are not by attacking Pam Hobs and excusing anything anything anyone else did that was against Damien and his friends.
Also Jessie implicated Damien and Jason because the police told him too DUH ! they knew they had no evidence against any of them so they went straight to the "borderline retarded" child (who is coincidentally the youngest of the three)the police officers picked Damien because of his satanic views which where abhorrent to that redneck bible belt thumping town.
Do you really want to believe that Damien could have masterminded this whole thing and get away with it yet bring along someone like Jessie who he must have known would fold like a paper tiger.
Or maybe he didn't know but obviously if he was capable of masterminding the murder of three boys with no witness's and no evidence you would think he would know who to trust and who to bring in with this conspiracy.
I also haven't seen any evidence that the other two boys were into the same occult weirdness and satanism.
I'm not going to point the finger at Hobbs or Byers completely even tho they both have more "evidence" against them than any of the boys.
Byers did not help his case at all with that over the top dramatic thing he did at the Robin Hood hills in the Paradise Lost movie and then removing all his teeth when the media were investigating bite marks not to mention he couldn't keep any of his stories straight about why he removed his teeth or anything else.
End Point We will never ever know what really happened and who did this because the police botched this case so badly and they and the other officials refuse to re-open this case because they don't want to look bad.
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donitononaire
11 years ago
I'm attacking what Pam has done, and her character as of late, moreso than her as a victim in this case too. I've been around the forums, and seen the garbage she posts... Some of the *beep* she says is revolting, and inexcusable.. She simply is not reliable - and to believe anything she says against Terry is foolish.
Not excusing anything anybody else did.. Just clearing it up, and putting it into perspective regarding the case.
I haven't seen anything where the cops "made" Jessie tab anybody, or made him say anything... And NO, he was not interrogated for 12 hours before "cracking." He was singing like a bird after 4 hours (another myth propagated out there). So, don't you find it coincidental than Damien and Jason have absolutely NO ALIBI whatsoever? None.
Again, Damien's behavior would be abhorrent to any normal person with any kind of scruples, or morals (not religious in nature). That's what you seem to be missing here... Which is why I went on about E-500 - so you could get into his mind, and understand what a sick, twisted little *beep* he was.
He didn't mastermind *beep* It was a random encounter, and what turned into random acts of violence, gradually escalating.
Jessie had a record of violence, and was prone to violent outbursts... Jason was your typical effeminate, limp-wristed beta male follower... He'd do whatever Damien wanted.
There is plenty of evidence against the three... Plenty more than there is against either Hobbs, or Byers... At least Byers took and passed a polygraph test - more than Damien can say (he failed a polygraph test). I'd point you to Callahan again, but I'd suggest giong to WM3facts to see ALL the evidence there is against them... Yes, this is a somewhat "biased" ste as it's run by nons, but EVERYTHING they lay out are nothing more than known facts about the case (cited at Callahan from case documents, etc.) Go read up, and tell me there's more evidence against Byers, and Hobbs than the three....
Byers is a volatile and eccentric character... I can't help but to wish him the best, even though he's a bit loose in the head... Terry is just a victim as much as anybody else, and needs to be left the F alone... Just another "red herring" like Byers... And eventually somebody else will be...
The police could have done a better job, but in most investigations the cops usually can. But hindsight is 20/20, and at the time, they pursued the leads they had, and eventually got their guys... The case is CLOSED, and the three have PLEAD GUILTY to murder (thrice), after being convicted by two juries. They are not exonerated, and the case is not "open." It's a wrap... Three guilty, convicted child killers (thrice) 4-life... Damn shame they're not rotting in prison still, but in this country if you throw enough money, and enough *beep* at the wall, eventually you'll get something to stick in the minds of the sheeple.
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sonofspam1972
11 years ago
Wow i don't have time to sit here and rebut everything you say but you are clearly biased (at least i admit that i am because i can relate to Damien but that doesn't mean i would excuse him if he did commit these murders) you make excuses for all the accused fathers when in actuality they would be the first person's likely to do this sort of thing but alas the police where to busy looking at a couple of kids (it seems because of Damien's reputation and Jerry Drivers obsession with him and his "satanism) and yes i agree the three boys don't seem to have a clear alibi but when has that ever mattered to police?
Jessie Misskelley was interrogated for hours but yet the tape recorder seemed to be off most of the time for some reason.
The fact that you throw Pam Hobbs under the bus and call her all these names but you will make any excuse for the three fathers shows to me that you have a clear bias.
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putter_b
11 years ago
The issue I have is that you keep saying that due to E-500, that proves that Damien is a psycho. I pointed out worse offenses carried out by Terry Hobbs and you swept them under the rug or flat out denied them. Let's go through your rebuttal really quick.
1.) Hobbs shot in self-defense a man who was attacking him in a rage. He did what most people would do if scared, and being attacked (and had a gun on them/in reach) - he reached for a gun and shot them. The force he used in self-defense was not the same level of force being used against him, but you make it out like he just shot some unarmed guy...
Do you know why this all happened? Terry was beating up Pam and she called her Dad and brother to come and help her out. Jackie Jr. showed up, saw what Terry did to his sister and proceeded to alley stomp him, Terry in turn grabbed a gun and shot Jackie Jr. See, to a scumbag like Terry, it's ok to beat on women but when you are on the losing edge of things you do whatever it takes. It's not a matter of self-defense, this shows malice to me, that Terry is capable of killing someone.
2.) Where is the proof he sexually abused children? The only people I've heard say this are hostile parties, and/or second, and thirdhand statements. Although, if I'm wrong here, please correct me (I have heard that he has a felony conviction on his record for something to do with a child, but again, nothing confirmed).
As far as physical abuse? The only believable info. I've heard is excerpt from Amanda's diary, and her statements about him "beating the hell out of her." Now would this count as child abuse? Or just being a strict, possibly even mean, father? Being spanked with a belt across the arse is not child abuse, IMO. I got whipped with a belt a few times as a kid, and I absolutely deserved it. I don't know why Amanda would be so friendly with him, and stick up for him on facebook (although Terry recently deactivated his account) if he was so horrible to her. Again, aside from second and thirdhand tales about Terry "beating" Stevie coming from hostile parties, there's nothing... Why would Pam continue to be married to the guy if she knew he was physically and/or sexually abusing Stevie? Why is she only coming out with it after they divorced and butting heads? Doesn't seem like something a mother would do if they really feared for their child like that.
However, if you have any credible sources of Terry sexually, or physically abusing children, let me know, and I'll stand corrected.
Amanda's leaked diary talks about it. I have always wondered if the "David" she mentions is Jacoby. Here is a link.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e142/obscuregawdess/a2.jpgAlso, several of Pams family have come out and said what they had seen. Why would Pam stay with him? Why do most abused women stay with their husbands? As for Amanda sticking up for him on Facebook, let me tell you a quick story. There used to be a guy here named Mojo who ran a WM3 board called downatthefarm or downonthefarm or some such. He constantly bragged about people being directly involved in this case being members of his board. When the WM3 were released he claimed that Amanda said she was very upset about the release of the 3 and if memory serves "she" hinted around to violence against the WM3. Then I posted a picture of Amanda Hobbs and Jason Baldwin together, smiling and questioned the people on his board, very shortly after that he deleted his entire board and left the imdb forums too. So forgive me if I have a hard time when someone on FB who is claiming to be Amanda says something supporting nons/pros.
Oh, also keep in mind that Terry sexually assaulted Mildred French too, that doesn't really help his situation. So now we know he is capable of shooting someone and sexually assaulting someone.
3.) There's nothing to prove Stevie was in possession of that knife the day of the murders. Just more *beep* from the drug-addled, abusing, hostile, and crazy Pam Hobbs. Absolutely nothing at all to prove this.
Right here you lost all credibility. To say that Pam is a "drug-addled, abusing, hostile and crazy" person, but believe that Terry Hobbs is not, that just is scary.
4.) He's only been implicated in the murder by convicted felons who actually are rapists... Haha and humorously, brought about by a lawyer with the surname "Swindle." Then the whole "Hobbs family secret" nonsense... If you can find any credibility whatsoever in this, I don't know how you can reject Jessie's confessions... Jessie had no reason to randomly implicate Damien and Jason - of all people, what are the chances he'd name two guys he wasn't even that good of friends with (who have no alibi). Jessie had no reason to randomly name them... These degenerate idiots have every reason to accuse Terry (money, attention, hatred of him, etc.) So yes, that is complete rubbish to "list" this... This thread didn't even have anything to do with the evidence against Damien, just his mental state to show that he was violent, and capable of violence, including murder.
Argh, the confessions. It would be easier to take the confessions seriously if any of them matched one another or had actual facts involved with them. Everyone has different details but they all have the same outcome that the 3 boys were dead at the end.
This is typical on this board of how it goes about those.
Nons - "He confessed at least 4 times (unless your are Jenkim, then you claim 5-9 times).
Supporters - "But in all of his confessions, the "facts" are completely wrong, there isn't anything supporting the crime other then the 3 little boys are dead."
Nons - "The whiskey bottle says it all!"
Supporters - "The whiskey bottle wasn't even mentioned until the last confession and it wasn't even part of the murder, further more there is no proof that it was even purchased that day or drank that day. It's not evidence, it's coincidence."
Nons - "Yeah, but he confessed that is all that matters."
Supporters - "What about the other 2 guys who confessed right after the murders. You know, the ones who were familiar with the victims, who moved to California within days of the murders, who failed polygraphs from a TRAINED polygraph administer?"
Nons - "Doesn't matter, Jessie confessed."
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sonofspam1972
11 years ago
And year people never falsely confess under police interrogation right? that never happens (sarcasm)
The big problem is that everyone involved in this case no matter how small seems to have three different stories or the stories have changed and this is includes all sides.
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