MovieChat Forums > West of Memphis (2012) Discussion > Just saw this and don't understand how

Just saw this and don't understand how


Alford pleas would be accepted if they were guilty. Come on, justice would only be served if a new trial was held right? If the evidence isn't good enough, then the law should let them go. I suspect the men were released only because the evidence against them was too weak to convict.

Not that that proves they were innocent, but it knocks down the notion that the case was very strong to begin with...


"Did you make coffee...? Make it!"--Cheyenne.

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It was a compromise. A guilty verdict stays on the books, the state can't be sued, and the prosecutor doesn't have to deal with people, including a lot of wealthy, high profile celebrities, campaigning for their release. The WM3 got a guaranty that they would be freed.

I am the eggman, they are the eggmen
I am the walrus, googoo goo joob goo goo goo goo joob-J Lennon

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if the state knew for a fact they were guilty they wouldn't care what dumb Eddie Vedder has to say...they took the deal because they wanted to keep their conviction which they knew would be overturned if it went to trial and also save the state from lawsuits as you said...but why worry about lawsuits if you have an open and shut case?

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One thing I do not understand is how Jesse could have been acquitted in a new trial. His additional confessions would have been admitted and that would be that. I suppose it is possible his confessions could have been excluded in a new trial, but I am not aware of any credible reason for excluding them.

I do think it would have been difficult to convict Damien and Jason again just because the passge of time probably wreaked havoc on the evidemce (testimnony and physical evidence). Pluse, the lawyers would be better.

Guts: The magazine for real men.

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One thing I do not understand is how Jesse could have been acquitted in a new trial. His additional confessions would have been admitted and that would be that. I suppose it is possible his confessions could have been excluded in a new trial, but I am not aware of any credible reason for excluding them.


It's simple if you look at the big picture. And the jury will have to look at all the confessions, so they can either say...

1. He confessed, he is guilty.

2. These confessions all contradict themselves and the facts of the crime, it's obvious that he didn't know anything about the crime except that the murders happened.

I do think it would have been difficult to convict Damien and Jason again just because the passge of time probably wreaked havoc on the evidemce (testimnony and physical evidence). Pluse, the lawyers would be better.


Most of the evidence had been lost, tossed or incinerated. We already know that Vickie Hutcheson, Michael Carson and others have recanted completely or said they were bullied into testifying by the WMPD. Damien and Jason would have easily walked, sued the state and that would have been that.

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[deleted]

Uhmm.. what about the fact that he had been maintaining his innocence for a whopping 18 YEARS after his last so-called confession? and is still maintaining it today 3 years after being released?

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[deleted]

How do you know it's an "out and out lie" that he was forced to claim he was guilty? I'm sorry, I'm pretty new to this entire case, but that just doesn't add up with what I've read and what I've seen in all the four documentaries. And yes, I've read both sides of the case, and that westmemphisthreefacts.com site claims he was only interrogated for 2,5 hours, you say 4,5, some say 12-14. But where's the proof for how long he sat in interrogation? Because I've seen no proof one way or the other.

I came here in hope to learn even more about the case as I find it very heartbreaking and interesting, I personally believe the WM3 are innocent.

It was the roar of the crowd
That gave me heartache to sing.

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[deleted]

No need to be rude. I was asking politely because I was curious because I don't know that much yet. Remind me not to ask you anything again, because clearly here questions are not allowed, and basically one is not allowed to make a comment unless one has read everything about the case.

It was the roar of the crowd
That gave me heartache to sing.

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[deleted]

yeah and each confession the facts were different...the guy is retarded! why you take his words as gospel baffles me

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you keep bringing up the bible confession like that matters...also we know none of the boys ran because they were tied up before they were brought to the dump site...so him saying he ran one down is nonsense

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Jimmy, Jessie did allegedly chase after one of the boys (Christopher Byers, I believe), hence his body being found a distance away from the others. Whether Jason, Damien and Jessie did actually commit the murders, I don't know. We will never know the truth. All we do know is that three little boys were brutally murdered that day

I was gonna let you *beep* me, but I got my rag, and I know how you hate a mess

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Respectfully, I think you are oversimplifying Jesse's situation. For No. 2 to apply, Jesse would have to take the stand and explain the confessions and the discrepancies, to the extent they are material. Othwerise, what would be the evidence to rebut the confessions? Attorney argument cannot rebut clear evidence of guilt. The confessions agree on the major details that the WM3 murdered the boys at the location where they were found. I do not believe variations in the details would deter a finding of guilt unless Jesse testified why he gave the multiple confessions. And if Jesse testified....

As to the other 2, I believe they did it but there was probably reasonable doubt in the first trial. Thus, it is no shock that they could walk in a second trial twenty years later. However, I think your conclusiuon that they would have "easily walked" and "sued the state" is a bit optimistic. Otherwise, why the Alford plea? No, I think there was uncertainty on both sides.

Guts: The magazine for real men.

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You said "The confessions agree on the major details that the WM3 murdered the boys at the location where they were found. I do not believe variations in the details would deter a finding of guilt unless Jesse testified why he gave the multiple confessions."

Jesse had the entirely wrong time of day. He first said it happened during school and all three boys were in school that day. He also said that the boys were raped when in fact they were not. He said that they were "cut up real bad" when we now know that the wounds were post-mortem animal predation. He said that they were tied up with rope and we know that they were tied up with shoe-laces.

Furthermore, most agree that due to the lack of blood at the crime scene and the lack of mosquito bites on the victims, that the boys weren't even killed where they were discovered.

How can you possibly say that the confessions agree on the major details? These are not small variations in the details. Do you not even think that there is room for reasonable doubt concerning his confessions?

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[deleted]

First, I am not whoever you think I am. Second, I am certainly not trying to discuss anything with you and I am not the one who is attacking people.

You have clearly made your point that because of Jesse's confession(s) that the WM3 are guilty and that anyone who may believe otherwise is wrong, doesn't understand the case, wasn't there, etc. and a moron ...I get it.

Do you have anything else to add?

Aside from the confession(s), what other evidence can you cite that leaves absolutely no room for reasonable doubt?

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[deleted]

No, I do not believe there is reasonable doubt about the confessions given the number of them, even post-conviction. In order to create reasonable doubt, Jesse would need to testify at a new trial. Risky, but he would have no choice if he wanted any chance of acquittal, in my opinion. That was my point.

In my experience, whenever you have a client that makes damaging admissions of a material nature (such as a confession), you usually (not always) have to give your client to opportunity to "rehabilitate" himself/herself through testimony to put the damaging admission in a different context to the extent posible.

Of course, this discussion is moot I guess.


Guts: The magazine for real men.

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I wonder if you could just stop posting. That would add so much to the discussion board. It's called addition by subtraction. When you have absolutely nothing else to say other than your continuous ranting about "multiple" confessions and making attacks on others you really don't add anything at all.

Have you never heard of a false confession? Look it up. They are incredibly common. So common in fact that police routinely withhold certain details of crimes for the expressed purpose of weeding out those who may make a false confession (except in this case where the police actually fed Mr. Miskelley the details).

There are many reasons people make false confessions, even multiple false confessions. Even after the fact, while in prison. You have no idea what is going on in the mind of someone wrongfully imprisoned, especially someone with a particularly low IQ. How do you know he wasn't told that he'll never ever be paroled unless he admits to his crimes? Maybe he wants to portray himself as tough in prison to avoid abuse. I don't know and you don't know.

People go to a discussion board, usually with an open mind, to learn and expose themselves to different ideas. You clearly do not have an open mind and instead just ridicule others unless they conform to your theories.

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I wonder if you could just stop posting. That would add so much to the discussion board. It's called addition by subtraction. When you have absolutely nothing else to say other than your continuous ranting about "multiple" confessions and making attacks on others you really don't add anything at all.

Have you never heard of a false confession? Look it up. They are incredibly common. So common in fact that police routinely withhold certain details of crimes for the expressed purpose of weeding out those who may make a false confession (except in this case where the police actually fed Mr. Miskelley the details).

There are many reasons people make false confessions, even multiple false confessions. Even after the fact, while in prison. You have no idea what is going on in the mind of someone wrongfully imprisoned, especially someone with a particularly low IQ. How do you know he wasn't told that he'll never ever be paroled unless he admits to his crimes? Maybe he wants to portray himself as tough in prison to avoid abuse. I don't know and you don't know.

People go to a discussion board, usually with an open mind, to learn and expose themselves to different ideas. You clearly do not have an open mind and instead just ridicule others unless they conform to your theories.

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[deleted]

When you have absolutely nothing else to say other than your continuous ranting about "multiple" confessions and making attacks on others you really don't add anything at all.


I don't understand why anyone thinks the multiple confessions alone make or break the case. They're merely one aspect of this puzzle that add up to something not being right with these boys. Continuing to focus on the confessions of Jessie makes one forget that there was a hell of a lot more going on than that, such as Damien being shown on camera in news footage smiling and blowing kisses to the families of the VICTIMS, as if that isn't remotely considered cold, sociopathic behavior. Who DOES that? Even if he were innocent and angry, children died. It's not a matter to be so cavalier about and blowing kisses to them is the ultimate in disrespect, though not the only strange thing about Damien if you've read Exhibit 500 where he himself writes that he is a sociopath on his own hospital admission charts.

Not to mention the pre-existing police reports of Damien terrorizing some poor girl while she was alone in her home. Yeah, the report exists and was made before the murders, not something someone made up.

Attacking a kid at school unprovoked with witnesses saying he went for his eyes. Damien's lame excuse for it in his book. None of it adds up to an emotionally stable young man.

And while some people did recant, some of them have maintained their stories to this very day and have continued to do so in the most recent interviews with them. What about those? Why do people only focus on the known liars as if everyone who had something negative to say about any of the boys was making it up when there are just as many out there saying their statements are true? Why does no one mention THEM? You can't pick and choose this stuff.

This isn't a case where the evidence hinges on one particular thing and focusing on one aspect like the confessions gets you nowhere. One needs to see the broad panorama of EVERYTHING wrong with this case and these boys to make a conclusion rather than picking and choosing certain aspects they want to focus on.

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I don't understand why anyone thinks the multiple confessions alone make or break the case. They're merely one aspect of this puzzle that add up to something not being right with these boys. Continuing to focus on the confessions of Jessie makes one forget that there was a hell of a lot more going on than that, such as Damien being shown on camera in news footage smiling and blowing kisses to the families of the VICTIMS, as if that isn't remotely considered cold, sociopathic behavior. Who DOES that? Even if he were innocent and angry, children died. It's not a matter to be so cavalier about and blowing kisses to them is the ultimate in disrespect, though not the only strange thing about Damien if you've read Exhibit 500 where he himself writes that he is a sociopath on his own hospital admission charts.


The problem with the confessions, is that they make absolutely zero sense. Jessie went to the WMPD to implicate Jason/Damien in the crimes, hoping to get the reward money to buy his father a new truck. BUT in the process ended up implicating himself, in some rag-tag inaccurate story that the police shouldn't even have taken seriously. Instead they corrected some of his mistakes, stamped the case "solved" and went from there.

I believe Damien (at the time at least) had delusions of grandeur. Where he was playing the part that the town decided he was supposed to, meaning they wanted him to be the boogie man, he was going to be the boogie man.

Not to mention the pre-existing police reports of Damien terrorizing some poor girl while she was alone in her home. Yeah, the report exists and was made before the murders, not something someone made up.


He banged on a trailer, where a girl was living, because she irked him (can't recall the exact details).Scaring her a bit, yes, but terrorizing her, no.

Attacking a kid at school unprovoked with witnesses saying he went for his eyes. Damien's lame excuse for it in his book. None of it adds up to an emotionally stable young man.


The attack wasn't not unprovoked. The kid told Damien he slept with Damiens girlfriend BEFORE she broke up with Damien. Then Damien attacked him, simple as that.

As for going for the eyes. Not sure if you have ever been in a fight before, but you usually win by incapacitating your opponent.

And while some people did recant, some of them have maintained their stories to this very day and have continued to do so in the most recent interviews with them. What about those? Why do people only focus on the known liars as if everyone who had something negative to say about any of the boys was making it up when there are just as many out there saying their statements are true? Why does no one mention THEM? You can't pick and choose this stuff.


Yes, some have. But the people who gave the most damning statements, were the ones who recanted. Hell, even Steve Jones (ex WMPD officer) believes the 3 are innocent now, along with 2 of the biological parents of the victims.

This isn't a case where the evidence hinges on one particular thing and focusing on one aspect like the confessions gets you nowhere. One needs to see the broad panorama of EVERYTHING wrong with this case and these boys to make a conclusion rather than picking and choosing certain aspects they want to focus on.


This is a case where there was no evidence, except a shoddy confession, remember, the original confession is all they had in Jessie's trial, it wasn't until AFTER did he confess again and again. There was no DNA, no blood, no credible eyewitnesses, etc.

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Actually in regards to the school fight, the boy may have said something to Damien prior to that day but on the actual day in question, Damien went up behind the guy and attacked him. Damien even specifically says as much himself in his own book and makes an attempt to rectify it by justifying his actions. You make it sound like the guy and Damien had a talk immediately prior to the attack, which did not happen according to the witnesses and Damien himself.

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Actually in regards to the school fight, the boy may have said something to Damien prior to that day but on the actual day in question, Damien went up behind the guy and attacked him. Damien even specifically says as much himself in his own book and makes an attempt to rectify it by justifying his actions. You make it sound like the guy and Damien had a talk immediately prior to the attack, which did not happen according to the witnesses and Damien himself.


I can't quite remember all the details, for some reason I actually thought Damien had already "dropped out" of school when this altercation happened. Either way, I do know that the guy he attacked was dating Damiens (ex) girlfriend when the fight happened and that there was a verbal altercation either that day or a day or two prior.

Either way, going for an eye in a fight doesn't make him a killer.

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I had to resort to Damien's book to remember the details. According to it, she broke it off with him after she had already started seeing the other guy and Damien only found out about it from someone else that day at school. He never mentions the guy himself talking to him about it, it sounds as if he didn't even know him well because the information about their relationship was given from an outside party. Damien then says he went through the school seeking them out and attacked the guy from behind. Other students claim he was trying to claw at his eyes but in the book he claims he wasn't trying to harm him in any particular way but was acting out of impulse and anger and doesn't recall all of it. He reprimands his behavior but then he has done that with every weird behavioral issue he displayed during and before the trial. Not that it isn't to be expected. I agree it doesn't make him a murderer but an established pattern of irrational behavior involving violence and a tendency to not clearly remember the incident (as he also claims when he sucked blood from a jail inmate) is there and it doesn't look good on him. I mean between that and when he told his father he would eat him alive, there are at least three examples in his own book of agitated, irrational behavior coupled with partial memory loss.

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Yes, but the same can be said about Terry Hobbs (who I do not believe is the real killer).

Terry Hobbs has been accused of sexually abusing his daughter (you can even read about it in Amanda's journal that was leaked). He was known to be physically abuse to Pam, Stevie and Amanda. He was also arrested for sexually assaulting his elderly neighbor Mildred French. Oh, and let's not forget he shot an unarmed man.

Just something to think about.

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[deleted]

Because the state didn't want to admit they screwed up. These men are obviously innocent and anyone who believes they are guilty are just incredible dumb.

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Have you done any research outside of watching the documentaries?

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Nonsense. He was held for about 12 hours and questioned for almost 8. They picked him up at 9:45 AM, started the interview at 10, and didn't stop questioning him till 6:15 (which is when he finally got to eat). They then ran off to get warrants from a judge, and didn't formally charge him till after 10. And you are still with the nonsense that the DA didn't know anything, that DA knows the case backwards and forwards, he was already practicing law in Arkansas when the first trial happened. Like I said before, time was on his side, he had all the time in the world to get ready for the case, but chose not to.

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They had never plead guilty before. It was just a case of the state of Arkansas washing their hands of the whole thing under all the pressure generated from the media hype. It's a win-win for both sides, or a lose-lose, depending on how you look at it. I'm a non supporter but will admit that there wasn't any hard evidence against them. A new trial also would have brought the facts that the documentaries lied about into light. It is what it is...

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[deleted]

Agree completely. Unfortunately, without Jessie's testimony they would have probably gotten off. With all of the recanted testimonies and the Mr. Bojangles debacle, reasonable doubt definitely exists. I personally think the WM3 did it, but the evidence to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt just isn't there. Like I said, win win or lose lose, depending on how you look at it.

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Your position is the about the same as mine, except that I do think Jessie would have been convicted in a new trial.

Guts: The magazine for real men.

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[deleted]