MovieChat Forums > West of Memphis (2012) Discussion > Clearing up myths about the case...

Clearing up myths about the case...


1.) Only one witness has recanted. Michael Carson never recanted... He never even off the record said he was lying about what he said on the stand... All he said was "I'm sorry Jason... " and "Back then everything was hazy and I was in a bad place and on a lot of drugs..." Never once has he recanted... Vicky is only witness to recant.


2.) Jessie did not confess after "12 hours." He confessed after about 4 hours... And he confessed 5 times thereafter.. The theory about him "saying what you want him to say" goes out the window when he confessed against his lawyer's advice - with his lawyer practically begging him not to confess.. His lawyer also said that "he would believe Jessie's confession if the broken whiskey bottle was where Jessie said it was..." Sure enough - it was there... Yes, yes, there was "other broken bottles there," but just another coincidence you'd have to explain away (and there's A LOT you'd have to explain away to believe their innocence).


3.) The DNA evidence does not pintpoint Terry... It was mitochondrial DNA evidence.. The hair sample included Terry, however, it also included a whopping 4.5 million Americans as well :0 And the Jacoby hair includes a whopping 20 million other Americans :0!!! Moreover, secondary transfer would easily explain the hair matching Terry anyway (but again, IT IS not a "match.") Even their defense team admitted this was extremely weak "evidence." And does absolutely NOTHING to contradict all the other evidence against the three...


4.) Damien stated in an interview that he lived 20 miles away from where the murders happened... Not true... he also said he wasn't familiar with the area.. also not true - he frequently walked around the area, and was familiar with the woods where the bodies were found.


5.) Damien continues to cite the four females as his alibi...


6.) Damien and his broad Lorri continue to lie about Exhibit 500... The document is a compilation of numerous doctors, psychologists, police officers, detention officers, etc. documenting his extremely macabre behavior... Licking blood from others... Attacking others... Even his own mother said she was scared for herself, and other children in their house when Damien is around...

7.) There is physical evidence against the three. There was a fiber that was similar to a robe found in Jason's mother's home... And a fiber matching material in Damien's home... Also there was blue candle wax found on one of the boy's shirts (and blue candle wax in Damien's girlfriend's home). However, I'm not going to be like the sheeple-supporters and pretend like this in itself is damning evidence like they pretend the mtDNA evidence is ... It's just yet another piece... Just another coincidence that has to be explained away...



I'm sure there's many other myths and misconceptions floating around this board that I'll find, and clear up in time...

PLEASE, do not use this DOCUDRAMA as a valid source for this case...

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Come on, you know how nons are, they lie about this all the time. Not to mention, you're all terribly slutty and immoral anyway. I mean you do it with like...everybody. I can't take you seriously.

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^^^ Lol wut?

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[deleted]

1-Micheal Carson said he was high on drugs when he was testifying, and didn't know where he was half the time. He then looks at the camera and says "I'm sorry" to Jason Baldwin, what on earth do you suppose he could've been apologizing for? Talk about grasping at straws..

2-His confessions were all filled with errors, he was a slow as molasses hillbilly with an 8th grade education, and he has spent the last twenty years saying he was innocent. Again, if he had dropped dead ten seconds after the "bible' confession, that would be one thing, but if he has since 94 been insisting on his innocence, and that he was framed, why do you guys ignore that?

3-The DNA evidence does not match the WM3. which is more important than a supposed link to Terry Hobbs.

4-So what? that proves he murdered the kids? Maybe he knew they were trying to frame him, and he lied. Or maybe he was off his meds and making irrational comments.

5-An alleged lack of alibi doesn't prove he killed anyone. And what would be a good alibi for him anyway? If your a teen with no job, and out of school, how could you prove where you were a month ago on a specific day?

6-He has a history of mental illness, and some of that behavior is from when he was off his medications. None of that proves he had anything to do with the murders. And blood drinking is a fetish for some people. I'm a few years older than Damian, and I knew people into that stuff back in the 80s. I'm sure none of them killed anyone.

7-They were similar, but they were not exclusive. The bath robe was one that came from walmart (if i recall correctly) and was probably owned by many others.


It's not a docudrama, but a very well made documentary. The guys who made the first Paradise lost, said that they assumed the boys were guilty at first, but as the trial went on, they realized they were being framed. Apparently all this great evidence that was at the trial did not impress them at all.

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Did Michael Carson recant? I've watched his little speech in WOM several times and there's just something... *off* about it. On the surface it appears he is recanting but the words he used seem very carefully selected. Being on drugs, not knowing what he was doing, apologising etc. But does he actually say he flat out lied and made it up? No, not really (I don't think so anyway, if anyone has a transcript though, i'd appreciate it). How strong legally would this hold up as a 'recant'? Why didn't he just say "I lied, i made the whole thing up and for that i am sorry"? Why beat around the bush saying how messed up on drugs you were at the time. This just doesn't strike me as a straight up recant, moreso a carefully constructed speech to appear like one without admitting you perjured yourself.

What exactly are the penalties for committing perjury in a murder trial?

Is it true he received $3k for his role in WOM?

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Well what do you call it then ? when he says he is sorry to jason, what could he be referring to? Carson didn't seem believable to me in the first film. And even if he swore on a bible, and officially recanted the way you mentioned, everyone would say that peter jackson/johnny depp/henry rollins/eddie vedder etc,etc. paid him off to recant. So it doesn't matter. people who want to believe that the WM3 are guilty will continue to do so, even if one day they catch the real killer(s).I'm surprised no one has accused peter jackson or johnny depp of paying off Scott Ellington.

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Exactly my point. I have no idea what to call it as the whole thing is just odd. When he says sorry to Jason... I don't know. A recant? Or an apology for being a snitch perhaps? He's really not that clear about it.

You're right though, regardless of what Carson said in the 90's or in the "documentary", he has no substance or believability. For both nons and supporters. He was paid off in the 90's to snitch on Jason and then paid off in WOM to 'kind of' recant? He wasn't believable either time.

My dubiousness is because he was reigned back in to the entire thing in WOM just to deliver some ambiguous speech for a supporter POV film. I think Carson Then is just as inadmissible as Carson Now.

As for people being 'paid off'... who knows? Back then there were incentives to make it stick, and in WOM there were also (i think it's a fact) that monetary incentives played a role also.

I would love to have a totally objective and non-biased documentary about this case to save time slogging through callahan!

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The police didn't look into Terry Hobbs or even interview him and that's an extremely serious oversight. It's basic procedure to examine and eliminate those closest to the victims before widening the scope of the investigation. All of the parents should have been interviewed extensively, both as potential suspects and as witnesses.

Whatever you believe about the guilt or innocence of the convicted, this investigation absolutely involved egregious police incompetence.

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Where have you been? Do you know how many innocent people get sent to jail?





🐈 Rachel

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If anyone is naive it's you, you think working in law enforcement makes you infallible? So no one has ever been wrongly convicted? Police corruption doesn't exist? Terry Hobbs was never even questioned in 93. And lack of DNA in a drunken, spontaneous, thrill kill does equal innocence. If they had committed that crime, they would've made so many mistakes, left so much behind, and taken so much with them, in terms of DNA, that no one would be debating their innocence today. As for Hobbs, the hair is one thing, but also his alibi, David Jacoby, saying he wasn't with him that night as claimed, the witnesses who saw him with the three kids (Hobbs claims he didn't see them that day) His bizarre behavior when he picked up his wife that night too. all those things are factors that need to be considered. Also the fact that a notorious pedophile (who should have been investigated more thoroughly in my opinion} named him as the killer back in 93. I don't favor one suspect over the other, but I have no doubt that the WM3 are 100% innocent. They would still be locked up if they weren't.

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Were the WM3 alibis stronger than Mr. Hobbs?

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Jessie had an iron-clad alibi - many people testified to that. The jury ignored the alibi witnesses after his police-constructed confession was splashed across the front pages.

Once you know this is true, and how he was made to confess anyway, the rest is academic.

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"You honestly think the police would have an "iron clad"alibi from someone and proceed to have them prosecuted anyway? Don't take my word, just do the research and stop getting your info from a defense produced documentary. Thank you."

That's exactly what they proceeded to do, and have done in the past. I've read all the transcripts from misskelleys alibis, and yeah, one kid was off with a reciept, and another made some errors, but the others seemed truthful to me. The only thing the prosecution did in those cases was bring up the fact that they were all supporters/friends of jessie. In other words, they were all deliberately lying for him. I'm sorry, but no one is going to make a fake alibi for a person convicted of killing, and possibly raping three little boys, No way do I believe that. Why weren't they charged with perjury? Why haven't any come forward years later, to admit they were lying for jessie? Why didnt someone back then anonymously contact the WMPD to say that they were being pressured to lie for jessie? The police were biased against these guys from day one.

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[deleted]

Good point, just because people know their alibis doesn't make the alibis invalid. It's more likely an alibi is going to be a friend who you're hanging out with, rather than a complete stranger remembering who you were and what you were doing. The police are insinuating that alibis are not good evidence. The case of Betsy Faria is similar. The husband had four alibis plus store surveillance and receipts and they still convicted him of murder.

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The crime scene waxy substance was not a match for the candle wax from Damien's book or Domini's residence or soap from Jason's trailer. According to the prosecution, the State Crime Lab couldn't match it to anything.

Not that that stopped them from bringing it up at the trial.

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2. The number of times Jessie confessed doesn't make any of his confessions more accurate. He didn't know what happened, what time it happened, how it happened, or have any understanding of what the area of the crime scene was actually like. He described a lot of things that the autopsies show did not happen, like choking, extensive beating with fists, and sodomy.

3. It's weak evidence because Terry's hair could conceivably be there for innocent reasons. He knew the boys and his hair could have been transferred to the shoelace while Michael Moore was at his house. It is not weak evidence because it might not be his hair. It almost definitely is his hair (it's something like a 97% match and any other donor would have to share Terry's maternal ancestry and have been present in Robin Hood Hills at the time of the murders), it just doesn't prove he was involved. The defence only bring it up because it's physical evidence which points away from their clients and therefore creates doubt about their guilt; not to say 'Terry did it'.

4. I don't know about this interview or what he was talking about, but he did live in Marion at various points and did live half with his parents (in West Memphis) and half with his girlfriend (in Marion) at the time of the murders. His sworn testimony was that he was familiar with much of the area, but that he was not familiar with the Robin Hood woods.

5. He was definitely at the Sanders house at and after 7pm (his entire family and two additional, unrelated witnesses put him there, multiple witnesses were dead certain of the time frame because of what was on television, plus a note left by Damien's mother confirms they were at the house on that specific date). The fact that Damien himself couldn't remember the time and guessed it wrong in one of his initial statements to police is irrelevant; he was the only person who ever put this event in the early evening. One of the people who was dead certain of the time had no personal relationship with him, only gave one statement, and could not have been changing her story to cover the later time as the prosecutor alleged Damien was doing at trial.

Damien was also definitely on the phone with at least two girls at various approximate times (one of them testified recently, the first time she was actually called though she was prepared to testify in 93). Whether that covers when the children were murdered can't be known, because we don't actually know when the children died. The state medical examiner put time of death at between 1AM and 5AM on May 6th, but no one ever used that estimate in their theory of the crime. Liver temps were not taken and there is now no way to determine TOD with any reasonable degree of accuracy.

6. If you actually read Exhibit 500, you'll notice it's got some genuine information from credible sources and a truckload of cumulative misinformation, much of it obvious exaggeration of what happened in the credible sources or speculation being restated as fact. Actual incident reports and first hand statements tell a far less dramatic story than the second or third hand references. A huge amount of bullcrap got into the records by way of juvie probation officer Jerry Driver, who was obsessed with the occult and openly admitted that he tried to tie Damien to every crime in the state, including a train robbery hundreds of miles away.

There are also a lot of just plain mistakes. You can follow these threads through the documents and watch things get warped beyond recognition. Exhibit 500 proves that Damien was a troubled and suicidal kid who was deliberately antagonistic and tried to shock people in order to avoid being vulnerable; it does not prove anything else. He was ultimately diagnosed with, and treated for, depression. Other speculative diagnoses were ruled out. His treatment notes show he was always compliant with his treatment plan, his behaviour was described as normal by hospital and detention staff, and he was never considered out of touch with reality.

7. The fibres were always very weak evidence. Clothing from the defendants' families' belongings (not theirs) could not be excluded as the donor, and these were all common, cheap items with no link to the crime scene. The fibres were equally similar to fibres on a knife a kid gave to police which the kid said had no contact with the defendants and which was never purported to be the murder weapon. Furthermore, new tests demonstrated that the fibres weren't similar enough to prevent exclusion even by 1993 standards, and went on to conclusively exclude the known samples using two different forensic techniques. http://callahan.8k.com/pdf/c_bommarito_4_30_12.pdf

As I said, the blue wax was tested at the time and was not considered a possible match at any point. Hairs that were thought to be microscopically similar to the defendants in '93 have since been DNA tested and proved to belong to the victims.

There is no physical evidence tying the convicted men to the crime, the scene, or the victims. A barrage of new tests failed to turn any up after the fact (the state did even more testing after the defence was finally granted permission to test pretty much everything connected to the case which could be tested).

It's that kind of idiocy that I empathize with. ~David Bowie

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Thank you, donitononaire!!!!

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