No mention of his surfacing in Australia in the late 70s. - Searching for Sugar Man (2012) Discussion

[–] howard.schumann 12 years ago

I think the story for the most part stands up to scrutiny. Knowing that he had a minor tour in Australia in the late 70s that led nowhere would not have added much to the film.

"Where are we? Somewhere in the physical. What are we? Travelers on the road to joy"

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[–] rogerscorpion 12 years ago

I think omitting any overseas fanbase, comes across as intentionally minimizing his international appeal.

Carpe Noctem!

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[–] howard.schumann 12 years ago

It does have some aspects of manipulation, true but I think the drama and the way it was handled more than compensates.

"Where are we? Somewhere in the physical. What are we? Travelers on the road to joy"

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[–] lubin-freddy 12 years ago

There's a huge difference between saying something that's untrue, and leaving out details, for the sake of the narrative and drama. This is, after all, a film, and not a Wikipedia article.

I want to shake every limb in the Garden of Eden
and make every lover the love of my life

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[–] nickryder9 12 years ago

Yes, he did tour Australia in 1979!! Much like South Africa, he had a cult following in Australia and New Zealand and was rediscovered in 1979, much to his surprise, and did a tour. But it was more of an theater tour (audiences of <1000, I'm guessing). In South Africa he was selling out 5000 seat venues...much bigger. You can read about all of this in the liner notes to the Cold Fact CD.

I'm 100.000% sure the filmmakers left this out because it would have spoiled some of the mystery surrounding him if they mentioned his Australian fans. Worked for the movie, but seemed a little dishonest.

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[–] psychtracker 12 years ago

I'd argue he did far better in Australia than just a "Cult" following, and sales-wise likely as well as he did in South Africa. "Cold Fact" was quite massive here during the 70s/80s (5x Platinum at least). "Coming From Reality" also sold VERY well. The Live album he recorded here in 1979 was also released on Vinyl and was quite successful. Plus a Record Label here called "Blue Goose" tracked down unreleased Songs from his 3rd album and included them with a "Best Of" Compilation LP...which came out in the 80s. That one also sold well.

I'd find it pretty much "unfathomable"...that musicologists when researching Rodriguez would be completely unaware of this fact. "As if" he'd vanished off the face the earth in 1971! But in saying that, they obviously left all of that out for "dramatic effect" ie. it isn't quite the same fantastic tale when you consider he was actually "re-discovered" in the late 70s (and secondly in the late 90s). Either ways, it's still a fine film..but i'm sure there's quite a bit of 'poetic license' going on here..

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[–] grug-3 12 years ago

And *you* can try reading the liner notes to Rodriguez's 1979 Australian Live album "Alive" by iconic Australian music journalist Glen A Baker.
http://sugarman.org/alive.html#sleeve

Specifically, he played 16 concert halls in 1979, not theatres/clubs. He filled Queensland's Festival Hall and Melbourne's Pentridge Prison. He played to 15,000 fans in Sydney, not much shy of the 18,000 Rod Stewart managed. All in all, 40,000 Australian fans saw him live in 1979...and then he did another big tour in 1981 with Midnight OIl!

In reality it would have taken the "South African researchers" very little time to grab an Australian copy of "Alive" or find the liner notes online and find out that a) he lived in Detroit b) suicide rumours were untrue (Hence the title of the live album!) but thats not how the film portrays it at all and it seems very dishonest to present his South African debut as his first big concert/success.

Around the same time Rodriguez was being certified 1x Platinum in South Africa, he'd managed 5x that in Australia.

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[–] canadamelody 12 years ago

Well it is a beautiful work of cinema... a Fictomentary !!

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[–] gorguruga 12 years ago

I think people are forgetting that this was way before the days of the internet! Even though he had a tour in Australia, it's very plausible that South Africa would have been unaware of this, it's not as if he was a world-renowned artist who had mass-media coverage at the time. He was essentially an obscure artist, in worldwide terms, so international news wouldn't have covered his every move.

And the documentary is completely from the perspective of South Africa, so to mention an Australian tour that South Africa was totally unaware of would just serve to confuse things, and derail the story from the South African perspective.

I think it's time for a sequel! Searching for Sugar Man Oz!

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[–] docudrama67 12 years ago

Oh, puhleeze!!! I take it you're either very young or you never visited a record store in the 70's, 80's or 90's. It would have taken maybe 5 minutes tops to find out about that Australian record if you were a record store owner. records were extensively cataloged and every record store had a big book with all the records form all over the world sitting in their stores. It would be one thing to find say, a Nigerian record (although those were findable as well) but an Aussie label. You don't know what you're talking about.

Plus, on Rodriguez's own web-site he explains that these jokers didn't find him, his daughter found them. They should really take that down but I guess no one involved in this project even cares. Why should they? Sundance, AMPAS and most reviewers don't seem to care that most of the film is fiction.

It's not the coffee. It's the bunk.

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[–] JediRob 12 years ago

It is clearly stated in the film that his daughter was the one who found their website and reached out to them so I don't know what your talking about. Also it is very possible that news of a tour in Australia would not have mad eits way to apartheid era South African record stores and radio stations.

"Most of the film is fiction."

Are you sure you know what fiction means?

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[–] krisweddin 12 years ago

I went to record stores in the 70s, 80s and 90s. You characterization of them is bizarre. Stores in the US had, at best, a couple hundred albums. That included whatever was popular at the time, whatever the record companies were pushing, and best-selling classic albums. His albums already failed in the US a decade before.

Who in the world would know about someone popular in Australia only? Midnight Oil, the Split Endz, etc...they never got any play in the US until they got on MTV.

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[–] Felix-La-PuBelle 12 years ago

While the film 'starred' Rodriguez, it seemed the film was really about how South Africa embraced Rodriguez. In other words, I'm guessing the Australian bit was left out for no other reason than the film was really about the relationship between Rodriguez and the South African fan base.

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[–] CTReviews 12 years ago

The director was asked about this in a recent LA Times story. It jibes with your explanation.

http://blog.sugarman.org/2013/02/24/the-sunday-conversation-malik-bendjelloul-latimes-com/

Q. In the film, you make the case that Rodriguez essentially disappeared after making records in the early '70s. But what about reports that he was also a big star in Australia and New Zealand and that he toured Australia in 1979 and 1981?

A. The way I heard the story was I went to South Africa and I met [Rodriguez fans] Craig [Bartholomew Strydom] and [Stephen] "Sugar" [Segerman], and they told me the story. We tell the story from their perspective, the South African perspective. They had no clue about Australia. South Africa during apartheid was a very isolated country. And a man living in a house without a telephone, Rodriguez wasn't a normal guy.

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[–] Felix-La-PuBelle 12 years ago

Thanks for that info! Good to hear. Maybe that will quiet the dozen or so people on these boards that are still griping about it. ;)

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[–] Spookyman 12 years ago

I don't think it matters that the filmmakers didn't talk about Australia. The fact is he was unknown in his home country, the United States. Yes he did manage to gain a fan base in Australia (quite a few years into his career and after bombing in the USA). But so what? Australia is a small music market.

By the way his story of making great music but failing commercially and then receiving recognition later on is not uncommon. One band that comes to mind from the 1970s was Big Star in US. They only made three albums and none of them charted, but then achieved a cult status in the 1990s onwards.

The Velvet Underground is another example. Lou Reed, solo, went on to achieve commercial success, but when the Velvet Underground were around they did not chart.

And of course Nick Drake. He sold only a few thousand records in the 70s, but then became famous much later on, with other artists who did achieve popularity citing him as an influence.

Lots of talented people never become famous. It takes a lot more than talent to become famous. Luck is a factor, but so is a serious determination on the part of the artist to become commercially successful. Seems like Rodriguez wasn't really interested in promoting himself.

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[–] bloodofmyenemies 11 years ago

Small music market... He played for 40,000 people on his Australian tours and Cold facts went 5x platinum. Thats definitively not a 'so what.'

The poster formerly known as Richard_Nixon_The_Horse

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