....that the whole film was improvised, it's an insult to us. Like nobody did any work or pre-thought to making a good story with good dialogue. Love Tim but this may not get seen by me.
"All the donuts have names that sound like prostitutes"
-Tom Waits
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7seG96TOMw&feature=relmfu
Have you ever seen a Herzog film? Or a Malick Film? Or even an Apatow film? Improvisation is a way of working. It doesn't mean that the film wasn't a labor of love or that the person was lazy. It means that they have a different way of working. I admit that it can superficially seem that way, but often there are moments that can't really be effectively written. They can be found and felt, but writing them may not describe them fully.
Yes, there are moments but whole movies being improvised are BS
"All the donuts have names that sound like prostitutes"
-Tom Waits
Tell that to the millions of fans of Christopher Guest's films.
princesofthesun.bandcamp.com
They mix a large percentage of written dialogue.
"All the donuts have names that sound like prostitutes"
-Tom Waits
Incorrect, Christopher Guest's approach is to tell the actors what needs to be achieved in any given scene, then gives them free reign to do whatever they want.
princesofthesun.bandcamp.com
Incorrect, they are fed lines if and when they can't get the storyline in their improv.
"All the donuts have names that sound like prostitutes"
-Tom Waits
Yes, but that's only when the primary approach of improv-driven story doesn't work. Which is only a fraction of the time...
princesofthesun.bandcamp.com
You know what, I'll say OK to you. I guess what I'm really saying is don't tell us. I HATED watching Brando in his last few roles because he always thought he was some genius improvisor but he sucked, it was always so obvious that his small parts would bring you out of the movie because of his blatant improvisations. All of the Christopher Guest movies are genius and hilarious because I can't tell they're improving usually and when I think I can, it usually is so funny I don't care. So maybe they edit perfectly to keep a story flowing or something, not sure but I do love his films and that troupe or acting group, whatever. So, anyway, I have looked at trailers for this and it's so obvious that everything is improved and it's just Tim acting like what, in his own personal opinion, what a jerk would act like in each situation as opposed to a writer and a director creating a story flow. That just seems boring to me after five minutes. Maybe it's because I'm a huge fan of Tim and Eric and I've gotten to know all their mannerisms etc. too so they seem so obvious to ME here. Who knows, I'm sure I'll give it a chance.
"All the donuts have names that sound like prostitutes"
-Tom Waits
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Curb Your Enthusiasm is absolutely hilarious and that show works off a basic plot outline with heavy improvisation.
shareBut his movies are actually funny, this wasn't.
shareThis movie absolutely has structure and a clear message.
share[deleted]
You were right, you're coming off as extremely pretentious. Take it down a *beep* notch.
share[deleted]
Okay, thanks, I'll watch it.
"All the donuts have names that sound like prostitutes"
-Tom Waits
Now you're arguing about how MUCH improvisation is involved in fill-in-the-blank?
When you hear that improvisation was involved, the filmmaker transfers the work of writing everything out to the work of finding it, on set and in the editing bay.
You're acting like it's lazy. When in reality, it's easier to just write a film and shoot it. Improvisation is slow. It requires more effort on the part of every actor in the scene, and the people shooting it.
You started this thread talking out of your ass, and now you're arguing with people.....again, from inside of your own ass.
So here: You were absolutely wrong about the nature of improvisation. Totally. But that's cool, because now you have this great opportunity to not think like that anymore.
Or, if you'd like, it's an opportunity to demonstrate why you shouldn't bother having an opinion on artistic work involving emotional honesty.
BS, improv is easy and lazy. Simple.
"All the donuts have names that sound like prostitutes"
-Tom Waits
If you had any film or theatre experience then you'd know that improv is one of the purest forms of acting. I don't mean that as any holier-than-thou put down. I'm only speaking... pragmatically? For all I know, you do. Improv isn't just making up sh*t as you go along. Improv is putting yourself in the mindset of a particular individual and realizing the world as they see it as they see it.
Have you ever been to an improv show at your local comedy club/bar? Chances are it was pretty bad... or funny only because it was stupid. That's because it is HARD and takes quite a lot of craft. It very well CAN be lazy. But so can writing. Art is art, work is work. Do the work, make the art. Art is hard.
The effect works well in this movie because of the quiet natural/realistic tone of the film. Not much of it is blatantly silly or over the top (The tagline to The Comedy is "A Drama".) The Taxi Hip Hop scene is probably the most comedy oriented part of the whole film. What I would say about Tim's character is that he is an utter sociopath. Not like some movie character psycho, but like a real world disenfranchised *beep*
I enjoyed the movie. I don't think it's a particularly well made film, but it's always fascinating. It just drifts from scene to scene, almost as a series of random vignettes. They go together thematically, although I admit the "story" is pretty threadbare. It's not a movie about plot, it's a movie about character (kind of like a play but with a lot more locations.) And Tim's character, although pretty despicable is always interesting to watch. This film is a really great vehicle for him as an actor. I won't give it more credit than it deserves. It's been referred to as a "character study." It doesn't really study the character so much as simply observe. But it's good observation. I liked it.
improv is one of the purest forms of acting.
BS, improv is easy and lazy. Simple.
Some improvs when done right can give the appearance of being scripted .I havent seen this movie yet but if what your saying is true .They aren't improving the right way .Sometimes actors get it twisted and think just doing random things in a circumstance constitutes a good improv.Still have to stick with the story and be as truthful as possible .
"There is no terror in the bang, only in the anticipation of it."
If I can't tell it's improv, that's great, just don't tell us the whole thing was improved, I hate that.
"All the donuts have names that sound like prostitutes"
-Tom Waits
it's not as if the arc of the scene was improvised, it's not as if the editing is improvised. There are a lot of decisions being made with how to deal with the material. Sure the production of the dialogue is improvised but why is that terrible? These actors are having to make decisions about how they approach the material given (outlines of the scene, lines being fed, checkpoints for the scenes arc, all of which are planned) and those decisions are then filtered through editing and the construction of the film. Dismissing a film because a large portion of dialogue is improvised insults everyone who worked on it. Improvisation is a decision, writing is a decisions, there are multiple ways to approach a film and none are invalid.
shareThat strikes me as a very superficial attitude to take. If you thought a scene was genuinely well done, finding out it was improved doesn't lessen the quality of the scene.
Improv acting is neither more or less valid a form of performance than performing from a written script. The only thing that changes is the responsibility. In traditional script-based acting, the actor finds the character through the mind of the writer, who had his or her own vision already established. In improv acting, the writer provides a more simple framework and the actor does the searching for the character in said framework. The only difference is who holds the greater responsibility for finding the character.
....that the whole film was improvised, it's an insult to us. Like nobody did any work or pre-thought to making a good story with good dialogue. Love Tim but this may not get seen by me.
They're given an outline? So what? Hold on, I'll write an outline right now...DONE. Hey, I just wrote a movie script!
"All the donuts have names that sound like prostitutes"
-Tom Waits
They're given an outline? So what? Hold on, I'll write an outline right now...DONE. Hey, I just wrote a movie script!
Nonsense. The only thing that matters is the final product. If you liked the film without knowing that it was improvised, isn't it incredibly dumb to suddenly change your mind on that basis?
Personally, I find films that are at least partially improvised to be far more naturalistic and relatable than ones where every line is written by the same writer, which often means every character sounds exactly the same (Christopher Nolan and Mr. Tarantino are good examples of this). Obviously it depends on the film and what it calls for, but to rule out improvisation or free-form ideas on principle is stupid. I'd like to see more of them.
These bastards!
Your premise is ridiculous. The script (yes, SCRIPT!) was sent to Tim Heidecker and there was a specific reason comedic actors were cast in the parts of this very obvious drama.
shareMy "premise" or stated fact IS ridiculous, that fact makes the movie suck and the "actors" seem lazy and self absorbed.
"All the donuts have names that sound like prostitutes"
-Tom Waits
Nah. The 'CHARACTERS' are self-absorbed. You remind me very much of a grade-school teacher who claimed to hate George C. Scott because she hated "Patton." You possess that very same analytical ability, and understanding of comparative analysis. Would love to see you walk up on the street and meet Michael C. Hall and speak/treat him as if he were 'Dexter'. Always entertaining to watch actors try to rid themselves of "entertainment fans" like you, as if they were scraping dog-poo off their shoe.
shareOMG, what are you babbling about, holy hell you're a bore! Seriously, don't try so hard, this is a simple discussion on the subject of lazy, bad movie making. Not George C Scott, who was a man by the way a man, and Patton?? haha, come ON man...
"All the donuts have names that sound like prostitutes"
-Tom Waits
You are exactly behaving as the "CHARACTERS" behaved in 'The Comedy', entitled, self-absorbed, zero empathy or consideration for anything but their own whatever. I predict a long and difficult life for you, just like anyone who behaves that way in real life (kinda the point of the movie!).
shareI gave it a chance, hated it, hated the characters etc and the improv, as said, was off putting and obvious which isn't conducive to story telling or good movie making.
"All the donuts have names that sound like prostitutes"
-Tom Waits
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