MovieChat Forums > Black Mirror (2011) Discussion > White Christmas spoiler question...

White Christmas spoiler question...

posted 8 years ago by Ripshin
29 replies | jump to latest

In the last scene, the COOKIE of Joe is trapped in the pod for eternity, correct? The actual Joe still exists. This was established in the second segment with Greta, where her cookie becomes her slave, basically.

Thus, Joe is not the one suffering in the "pod," but rather his digital copy. So, being that Joe expressed disgust with Matt, for creating the copy of Greta, and making her a prisoner, is part of "real" Joe's punishment, knowing that his digital copy is suffering - or does he even know?

[–] laurendorward-990-190608 8 years ago

He knows. They tell him that's who they got the confession off.
It may seem like eternity to him but in the real world it would be the fortnight over Christmas.
The other one received a worse punishment Imo.

[–] Ripshin 8 years ago

Yes, I am aware of the time issue in the pod. But the "real" Joe is not suffering that fate, only the knowledge of it, while "digital Joe" is the one experiencing the "eternity." Who knows how "real" Joe is punished...

[–] laurendorward-990-190608 8 years ago

He's in a cell and will go to court and eventually be put in prison.
We can but speculate. But if they are as cruel as they were to the other character and his cookie then u wouldn't wanna be him.

[–] Ripshin 8 years ago

I just don't see the "real" Joe suffering anything worse than "digital" Joe's fate. Perhaps solitary confinement. Do any episodes of the series imply a prison system of the future, and what it is like? Of course, Matt has received an awful sentence himself, being blocked by everyone.

[–] laurendorward-990-190608 8 years ago

Depends what one thinks of as a bad fate. I think ultimately they all suffer one way or another.
All the world's are different and therefore what would happen in one would be different from another, but if it's anything like white bear it's pretty horrible.

[–] Ripshin 8 years ago

Um, yeah You're kinda stating the obvious. I am thinking more about the world that THEY created with this episode - I thought that perhaps I had missed something, which apparently, I haven't.

[–] laurendorward-990-190608 8 years ago

I watched it last night and nothing else happens.
You see him in a cell you see the other guy blocked by everyone. That's it.
There's really no need to be rude.

[–] Ripshin 8 years ago

Might point is, what happens to "real" Joe. Plain and simple. Is his punishment less than digital Joe?

[–] laurendorward-990-190608 8 years ago

That's up to you to decide isn't it. It ends with him in a cell, the policewoman coming in and telling him the cookie confessed. Its up to the viewer to think about what might be his fate. All you see is him locked in a small cell with nothing in it. Very similar to the cookie of the woman.
The whole point of the show is to get you to think. It doesn't spoon feed you all the answers

[–] Ripshin 8 years ago

I don't want them spoon fed, dear. They set up a specific scenario in the middle section with Greta, with implications that were somewhat abandoned at the end.

I am happy to interpret whatever, but I feel that the script is lacking in parts.

[–] laurendorward-990-190608 8 years ago

Ah my bad. you're a troll.

[–] Ripshin 8 years ago

No, dear. That's your cop-out.

[–] laurendorward-990-190608 8 years ago

Point proved....

[–] Ripshin 8 years ago

No, dear, it isn't. That's a junior high response. I LOVE it when people like yourself, think that they have made some significant statement, when it is in fact, stereotypical gibberish.

[–] laurendorward-990-190608 8 years ago

It really isn't.
You need to learn how to talk to people. You are an extremely rude and condescending person who clearly has a case of superficial superiority.
You asked a question and I answered it.
Get over yourself. Nasty little twit.

[–] Ripshin 8 years ago

Stop letting anonymous people get you so riled up. Life isn't Facebook.

I know very well how to talk to people, and I do it well. It's part of my job.

This is IMDb messaging, after all. Don't come in here expecting hugs and "likes."

[–] laurendorward-990-190608 8 years ago

Im not riled up im just telling you that you're rude and if you're as rude as you are on here in real life I suggest you get another job as you don't know how to talk to people.
I'm not expecting "hugs" and "likes" but there is such a thing as being polite. Something you seem to find extremely hard.

It just proves to me you are a troll, you want to rile people. In fact you've used the same terminology twice in an hour.

[–] Ripshin 8 years ago

I do my job well, and am quite successful.

I just find it humorous, when people so easily clutch their pearls, and get irked. I hope that YOU can deal with life's interactions better, actually. Again, IMDb is not "real life." It is a forum to discuss and debate. I have been on for sixteen years. I miss the days when it was more industry oriented, in the message boards.

And, yes, I can't help but chuckle, when people get indignant here.

Do you march around your world, pointing fingers in public, and shouting "troll"? Hardly.

[–] laurendorward-990-190608 8 years ago

Thank you for saying you are.
Peace out.

[–] Ripshin 8 years ago

I didn't, but you know that, dear.

[–] jaypro 8 years ago

I think what we can take from this extremely intelligent debate on this extremely good series is this:
.....Germans love David Hasselholf.

[–] lucyfranceshurst 8 years ago

How is he being a troll? He was asking a question and you decided to be snotty and patronising.

[–] niosudigs 8 years ago

i don't think that real joe is too concerned about the fate of cookie joe. and i don't think that the police officers wanted to punish real joe with what they did to cookie joe.

real joe doesn't even know what they did to the cookie, only that they got a confession out of him. i think they did it, just because they could. and because they don't perceive cookies as real beings, which was one of the moral themes of this episode.

[–] Ripshin 8 years ago

I asked, and have received different responses from people who have watched it. That was why I inquired. Some seem to think that Real Joe knew. Looking back, I suppose it was Digital Joe who thought that the abuse of digitals was cruel (as in Greta). Real Joe never knew they existed, as the "cabin" was not real - that was Digital Joe. That makes sense. Real Joe never even knew how they obtained the "confession," I assume. He obviously knew they had done something, due to the bandage on his temple.

One person stated that they told Real Joe HOW they got the confession - I'll have to rewatch that scene. I missed that.

[–] ricardobender 8 years ago

I don't think that the real Joe knows the details of the cookie technology. Remember that Matt had to explain digital Joe how it worked.

Even if they had told real Joe that they would have a copy of his mind, I don't think they would bother explaining the details of the possible torture.

I don't think that the digital Joe was punished - not in the sense of our justice system. His "punishment" was probably not even registered and I think that what the policemen did was sheer cruelty... They did because they could and had to tell nobody, after all, it was just a machine.

[–] Ripshin 8 years ago

Interesting. Makes just as much sense, as any other theory. I somewhat felt that this was the case, but wanted to know what others think.

It's easy to overanalyze the series, but the creator has made it clear, that the scripts are not necessarily meant to be as clear-cut as one would like.

[–] nswhite96 8 years ago

Can the digital copy be put back into his mind and therefore he remembers all the suffering his copy went through or is that impossible?

[–] Ripshin 8 years ago

To my knowledge, that was never mentioned. But it doesn't seem that a copy could be placed back "into" its original source.

[–] plumlogan 8 years ago

I get your point - effectively, real Joe will get a normal sentence for his crime, whereas cookie Joe will get a ridiculously cruel and unusual punishment for real Joe's crime that real Joe will never experience ... the flip side of that is that cookie Joe is only a file, so the suffering only exists in the operating system which supports the file - any suffering is therefore a simulation of suffering