First of all, it was interesting to see an episode set in the present. I'm surprised this kind of cyber-blackmail hasn't happened yet and think it's entirely possible that this episode will give some trolls out there the idea. I could totally see somebody doing something similar for the lulz.
shareYeah it is interesting. I knew that guy was looking at kids online, there was something so off about him from the very beginning and I never once sympathised with him. I found that this episode was similar in tone to White Bear.
shareI didn't get that from him at all. He seemed really odd, but he seemed to like the manager at his work and went off to his room when the music video came up.
I did wonder why he was going along with the whole thing to avoid the video coming out. It seems like it would be better to deal with the video and not all of the other consequences.
I was very confused once he got to the woods, I thought he was just embarassed, but he kind of admitted to it, didn't he?
I interpreted it the way you did at first too, but I think him not responding to his mom at the end kind of confirmed it. I initially thought that he was mostly just a young guy who was too embarrassed and then just got caught up in increasingly incriminating things so that it became more and more impossible for him to back out.
shareIt only occured to me when he was talking to the guy he had to fight and that guy asked "How young were they?" Up until then I just thought he was a normal kid. I know San Juniper is getting the best reviews, honestly I preferred Shut Up And Dance because of the twist (though SJ is also fantastic). I haven't seen the final one yet. I'm on episode 5 now.
Long Live Coulson!
I went back to watch it again and I was trying to pause it at the laptop screen it looks like he just searches for "porn" but that's such an odd way to look for it. At the fight scene the guy asks how young they were and he starts saying "I didn't..." then trails off. I am still not sure that he actually did look at it.
I think they set all of them up on purpose to ruin their lives. Like Mindy, she wasn't even real, but they made it seem like it for the wife.
He's just a weird kid I think.
Yeah, you're totally wrong though. Nobody would have done any of the things they did if they were innocent.
Kylo Ren is one of the weakest force users we've seen. That's a fact.share
Nope. If he would have been innocent and the other one a pedophile, he would not have tried to kill himself. But in that situation he valued his life as much as the others, meaning that he felt equally unworthy.
shareAfter rewatching the ending, I think you're correct. Really disturbing episode all around from both the side of the invasion of privacy and manipulation of people by hackers (e.g. doxxing and ransomware in real life) and the exploitation of minors on the internet. It's not exactly an episode I'm too keen on rewatching.
shareWere all the people guilty of the same thing then, or just the main character? I couldn't tell if they each had their own individual 'secrets' they were trying to hide, or if the moral of the story was they had all committed the same offence? Any ideas anyone?
Ever slept with a Syrian who chews tobacco...?
They had not committed the same crime...the woman we see at the start sent racist emails as revealed at the end. Hector's crime was attempting to cheat on his wife with a prostitute, who was "a twenty-something".
Love is the law...
Thanks - I wasn't sure if they were all connected, or if the trolls were joking and his crime was an innocent as it seemed to be at first. Impressed with this episode and Episode 1 so far but couldn't really take to 2.
Ever slept with a Syrian who chews tobacco...?
Right, it's why people of lesser crimes just had to deliver a cake or a car, then the worse it got the more involved you are, until the people looking at child porn were either killed or arrested. It was a great set up.
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Come on, Donny, they were threatening castration. Are we gonna split hairs here?
This was definitely season 3's white bear episode. It makes you hate the trolls as much as the pedo. Fantastic television.
shareThere's something off about millions of people in the world. People are sick. And this episode perfectly showed that there is no hope. For anyone.
shareThere's something off about millions of people in the world. People are sick. And this episode perfectly showed that there is no hope. For anyone.
But who did it?
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I thought they'd all done the same but Ms_Belladonna on here pointed out the woman at the start preparing the car and her racist e-mail comments, so I guess they all did different things - I suppose it was irrelevant really, but think it might have been more powerful if they'd all done the same?
Ever slept with a Syrian who chews tobacco...?
It wouldn't have made sense for them to have all done the same thing. Those deemed to be the worst offenders, the two pedophiles in this case, were given the worst punishment. It's the reason why Kenny HAD to be the one to deliver the bag. The rest were left to be dealt with by society/their inner circle regarding their offenses.
shareI thought he was gay since there was another guy in the room when his family said, how could you do that. I don't know really since it could be any number of things.
shareI shed a few tears out of disgust when it was revealed and found myself pleased with the vengeance. Somebody else in the thread mentioned feeling disdain for the vigilantes as well as those who did the wrongdoings, but honestly I didn't feel an ounce of empathy towards the "players" in the game and felt an understanding for the "trolls".
shareThat's how I felt as well
shareI don't think we want random people on the internet in charge of punishing people. We've seen it go wrong too often in the real world. What if they're carrying out a personal vendetta? What if they're a ultraconservative group that is exposing gay people in countries where that carries the death penalty? What if it's somebody hired by a rival company to expose embarrassing but not illegal behaviors? What if it's a rival country trying to shape another country's political system?
shareI interpreted it as a similar ending tone to White Bear, where the audience behave almost an inhumanely as the criminal but have the moral high-ground.
Ever slept with a Syrian who chews tobacco...?
What if they're a ultraconservative group that is exposing gay people in countries where that carries the death penalty?The black guy might have been gay. It would make sense with his family including the parents being around him, rather than a family with children (which would be the situation if it was adultery), telling him that he is a disgusting pervert. share
I don't think this is true. All the others had done something wrong. The woman had been a racist the other was shagging young prostitutes. It wouldn't fit that he was gay.
Neither being racist nor shagging prostitutes necessarily leads to any kind of conviction. Both result in being blamed on a moral level. Considering the ethnicity of the guy, his age and the fact that the group was his family, it is the most plausible explanation I can come up with, but by no means the only one possible.
Keep in mind that the racist provides the car, while the adulterer takes part in the robbery. So the guy who brought the gun (or maybe just the cake) should fit somewhere in between - less than adultery but still enough to pressure him into following the orders.
But they are both morally wrong (hence why they were punished) and Imo this is why the hackers were doing it.
It's not morally wrong in this day and age to be gay and this is why I do not believe that was it. They were all "crimes" of some sort.
You assume the hackers are on the "right side" and are somehow committed to doing the ulimately morally correct thing. But do you really know that? Are you sure the mail of the CEO is meant to be for the public? Is it okay to look into other people's marriage? Do you know what kind of damage the porn the boy has watched has really done and whether it stands in any reasonable relation to the robbery, killing a man and being killed?
All we know is, that the hackers use people who they can blackmail for their game. We do not know any motives and we do not know whether the moral factor is a point for them at all. Especially not since they act extremely amoral the whole time.
Adultery is not crime. Private racist emails are not either. Even looking at pictures of minors is not necessarily a crime. But all have in common that a group of people is not supposed to know about it - the wife, the public,...
In the case of the black man it is apparently the family. They might consider it morally wrong.
And of course there is still the lack of a better theory.
The woman who was racist only got outed in the press, she was a figurehead. Justified, and quite frankly happens daily in the press. People have a right to know who they're dealing with when they're in a public format.
His wife had a right to know where he was putting it about and that's all that happened.
Then the two pedo's got off the worst as they clearly had a lot on them.....
And yes any kind of pornography of minors is abhorrent. He wouldn't have got so freaked out had it just been innocent.
This is my interpretation and I have as yet to hear of another one.
People have a right to know who they're dealing with when they're in a public format.So privacy has no value for you as everybody should know who they are dealing with? Who has done nothing wrong has nothing to fear?
And yes any kind of pornography of minors is abhorrent. He wouldn't have got so freaked out had it just been innocent.There is a big grey area. Over here we had a politician who bought nudist movies featuring children. While it destroyed his career, it was still not illegal. There is a reason why those things land in front of a court and are not decided by an angry mob.
This is my interpretation and I have as yet to hear of another one.Actually, you did not give any interpretation concerning the black man. share
The black guy could've been doing anything. Every other person had in some way or another done something wrong, so logically you'd assume he had too. All they said was he was a pervert.....It leaves a very open area....He could've also been seeing prostitutes, it's left so open.
There is no grey area in child PORNOGRAPHY. Look up the definition of the word in the dictionary.
It's quite obvious from their conversation what type of photographs they were looking at. It's the entire point of the plot.
He could've also been seeing prostitutes, it's left so open.That is true. It is not a crime. And it makes the setup rather sloppy as it would be about random people blaming him, whereas in all other situations the damage got maximized. So, true, it could have been a case of bad writing and another prostitute. How probable is that in an otherwise carefully written episode?
There is no grey area in child PORNOGRAPHY.They just talk of pictures of kids. The grey area lies in the definition what is considered child pornography, as pictures can be used as pornography which never where intended to be used that way.
It's quite obvious from their conversation what type of photographs they were looking at. It's the entire point of the plot.Did they talk about pornography? I don't think that is necessary for the plot to work. Incriminating pictures would have been enough, given his action while looking at them. Even just looking at a elementary yearbook in that situation would have been way beyond the socially acceptable, but at the same time entirely legal. Do you consider it morally right to kill someone for looking at a elementary school yearbook? share
No more so than him being gay....In fact it would make more sense as it's morally corrupt. Whose to say what else the black guy had to do in the games.... whose to say that isn't his wife and her parents?
Seeing a prostitute actually is a crime, it's illegal. That's why they call themselves escorts online as a loophole. It's also an abhorrent and disgusting thing to do, especially if one has a wife and family.
If the boy was just looking at a picture of one of the kids at his school etc he wouldn't have acted the way he had. It's blatantly obvious what they were talking about. When he said how young he burst into tears.....who'd be so precious over their laptop if all they had were pics
Like that on it.
The maleware was also called shrive which is a term to cleanse your sins away. (Director said that)
In fact it would make more sense as it's morally corrupt.You realize that this is a completely relative issue? Just because you think it is morally corrupt, it does not mean it is. Just because you don't think it is, does not mean other people agree.
Seeing a prostitute actually is a crime, it's illegal.Not over here. They can even get health insurance. In the United Kingdom it is legal as well. So much about your theory.
If the boy was just looking at a picture of one of the kids at his school etc he wouldn't have acted the way he had.Not his school. And I would be surprised if it was not embarrassing for someone to be watched jerking off over children's pictures. Do you think he wouldn't realize something is seriously wrong with him?
Not all prostitution is legal in the UK. Read up on it and if you think it's okay to have sex with prostitutes your just as morally wrong as the people in the storyline.
It's not set in the USA is it. It's set in the UK. Unless you yanks have started adopting a nicer, less annoying accent lol.
I didn't exclude it because it made it obvious TO ME. It's how I read it. You can say I'm wrong all you want but it's how I read the storyline.
It's meant to make you think a bit and be ambiguous. There may be not right or wrong it's how you interpret it.
if you think it's okay to have sex with prostitutes your just as morally wrong as the people in the storyline.According to your opinion, and nothing else than you opinion. It is not wrong to have that opinion, I am not saying I would not share it, but nonetheless it stays a simple opinion and therefore a weak foundation for something which is supposed to be neutral. Just like that if the hacker thought it was worth trolling, they would troll a gay person and a gay person in the right surroundings could be blackmailed. At no point the show states that the hackers are in it for greater justice. In fact the Trollface just hints at the opposite. So if it is "obvious to you" that they are punishing the right people, you did not pay enough attention. share
Or I have a different interpretation to you.
The fact the maleware is named shrive after penance just reinforces my beliefs in the matter.
You can have your own opinion on the matter but it doesn't mean yours is any more correct than mine.
But a priest does not make the sins disappear either. He just tries to help people cope with them. I don't know in what way that would make the hacker's moral compass in any way more universal.
An interpretation isn't something you invent, you have to work with the puzzle pieces you find. And none of the pieces so far contradicted by hypothesis, whereas the "prostitute" theory is hardly backed up by anything and also does not seem coherent with the rest of the writing. So, yep, by theory is by no means proven true, but still already more correct than yours :)
No a priest listens to the sins. They were using this symbol to make them repent their sins. They could've just said no.
Every other person had done something wrong. Being racist is wrong, seeing prostitutes when one is in a relationship (or not in one) is wrong. It would make more sense that the black guy was cheating on his wife of that I'm certain, was it with men or women I don't know but it wasn't just because he was gay he had to have been up to something....
but it wasn't just because he was gay he had to have been up to something....You apply circle logic: for you the hackers were an acceptable moral instance because they would only punish things you consider wrong, and because of that they could not have punished someone for being gay, which proves that they would not punish someone who did nothing what you perceive as wrong. share
What makes the delivery so brilliant is that one just does not know. The boy simply looks like an average wimp with a good heart, but socially very insecure. So the kid has the empathy of the audience, deserved or not.
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Not the same thing but I think the writers got the idea from the Brian Douglas Wells case.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Brian_Douglas_Wells
And yeah, there was the Ashley Madison hacking scandal as well.
I agree that it is clear at the end that Kenny was looking at something far more reprehensible than ordinary porn, however, I could believe that he would have taken the same course of action had he merely been caught masturbating on camera regardless of the content he was viewing. The jabs Hector delivered in getting Kenny to rob the bank were funny to the viewer, but think of how it sounded to Kenny. Hector was led to believe that all Kenny did was masturbate. No child pornography. That, alone, enabled Hector to get under his skin. The shame of that most vulnerable footage being plastered on the internet. The 'wallpaper' comment. Think about how embarrassing that, alone, would be to an already socially awkward young man in a small community. It would be very hard to make a new start even if all it was was masturbating to vanilla porn. Being caught masturbating is humiliating enough, especially by how it can be recycled and repeated over and over and over again on the internet. Put yourselves in Kenny's shoes. Nobody would want a video of him or her wanking off available to the pubic at large without regard to what one's watching. (Unless they've already made the choice to go into porn. But that accounts for a small minority of the world's population.)
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