I mean that one actually made me smile... #HeavenIsAPlaceOnEarth!
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DEAR MODS: PLZ REDUCE MY POSTING QUOTA. 30 MIN IS WAY TOO MUCH.
Some say it was the most depressing episode:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2085059/board/thread/262721435
I think the ending in Nosedive is "happier" than the one in San Junipero.
Formerly RIP_Matthew_Abaddon.
"Be Right Back" wasn't that depressing, it was weird, but her fate wasn't that bad. It's one of the few times the main character doesn't die, go to jail, or get hurt.
I never saved anything for the swim back.share
I felt like Be Right Back was pretty depressing, certainly more than San Junipero. It's hard to say how advanced the AI of Ash's replicant is, but seeing him live for years stuck in the attic with no real purpose is pretty harsh for him if he has a functional consciousness. Not only that, but Martha clearly finds his existence painful, and I can imagine her being haunted by the thought of a machine that looks exactly like her dead husband living in the attic, but feeling too much pity for it to get rid of it.
shareIt's happy because they're together but it's sad because it's not real. They're data floating around a server.
shareso video calls through Skype or even normal phone calls are not real? it's just data flying around
it's still same person no matter if alive or deceased, geez you are conservative, that's like saying someone in wheelchair after accident ain't person anymore or someone will prosthetic leg or donated heart, etc., mind uploaded to cloud it's just another step
How can you equate a Skype call with uploading your consciousness to a server? They're two completely different things, can't you see that? And your wheelchair argument is completely irrational; you're trying to compare changes to a physical state with changes to a sentient state. Try again.
shareso what's difference between your conscience in brain or in hard drive of computer? technically the simulation of your electrical impulses still need to be stored somewhere, so instead of stored in human body it's stored in computer body, but it's not like computers store data in the air, it's still just different physical form, someone with fully replaced body except head you would still call person, replacing even brain is just last step further to replace completely whole body.
sharei believe the difference was explained during the tirade the black girl went on at the end when she made a reference to the quagmire individuals living a vapid meaningless life of nothing but partying,sex,drugs and drinking, and still not feeling content with themselves or feeling something was missing. Obviously in that sense there is a difference. Atleast as a flesh and blood human with a consciousness you have challenges in your life that force you to grow and develop, you take things less for granted and are aware of your mortality which forces you to be more conscientious of the choices you make. If your nothing but data, however, you wouldnt have these challenges, life would be one big party for all eternity, which Im sure would grow old pretty fast, especially if the extent of your experience in that world is strictly in San Junipero from what we've seen.
It just goes back to that age old notion of 'Immortality being a curse'. Theres only so much drinking, *beep* and shooting up you can do before you just get sick of it all. The essence of life is to be goal driven and overcome challenges. Take that away and life is pretty much a bore.
But as they said, it's not a prison. You can end it if you want.
And once again, they did the same thing in White Christmas, but it was so much worse.
of course it's just simulation and not real life, everyone should be aware of it but it's much preferred to death
for apparent reasons you can't die after your body already died but if you had enough of boring new life nobody stop you to terminate yourself
as for challenges and mortality being part of real life compared to immortality in simulation - are billionaires who can essentially do anything anymore not people? are not people tied to bed who can't even kill themselves people anymore? you would still call them people but here after conscience it's just transferred to different form you have problem to call them people
and as for simulation - even real life has plenty of different limitations but it doesn't make living any less real same as living in simulation, is still life
I believe the difference was explained during the tirade the black girl went on at the end when she made a reference to the quagmire individuals living a vapid meaningless life of nothing but partying,sex,drugs and drinking, and still not feeling content with themselves or feeling something was missing. Obviously in that sense there is a difference. Atleast as a flesh and blood human with a consciousness you have challenges in your life that force you to grow and develop, you take things less for granted and are aware of your mortality which forces you to be more conscientious of the choices you make. If your nothing but data, however, you wouldnt have these challenges, life would be one big party for all eternity, which Im sure would grow old pretty fast, especially if the extent of your experience in that world is strictly in San Junipero from what we've seen.
It just goes back to that age old notion of 'Immortality being a curse'. Theres only so much drinking, *beep* and shooting up you can do before you just get sick of it all. The essence of life is to be goal driven and overcome challenges. Take that away and life is pretty much a bore.
I guess the show is trying to argue that there is no difference between your consciousness being stored in a body or a server. As long as it feels real to you and you can forget that you're really just data living in a server, then how bad can it be? The key question is: could you forget that you're data in a server, can you truly fool yourself into believing San Junipero is real? Some people apparently can't so hence the Quagmire.
And of course people who lose parts of their body are still people. Yorkie was quadriplegic for 40 years and she's still a person. I'm saying that she stopped being a person when she went to San Junipero permanently.
you don't need to forget you are data on server same as you don't need to forget you are just one of the billions people on this planet, it makes zero difference for your life, it doesn't make your life less enjoyable, it's not like you have other option. of course if we could continue to live IRL it would be preferred but due to physical limitations and probably also financial factor (replacing whole body every now and then will cost probably more than one time transfer to cloud) the cloud is only viable option unless you wanna stop exist
so according you someone enjoying their life in different form in cloud is not person anymore? so your definition is person is human body? what about vegetable body without conscience, is that still person if you value body that much over conscience? for me body is just shell of conscience which is really important and not vice versa, so i don't think form is that important, be it healthy person, paraplegic or data in computer
EXCEPT that being data in a computer is an artificial existence, it's a man-made ultra-real virtual reality. That is the key difference between being that (if you can call it "being"), and being a person in a healthy body or a paraplegic body.
sharethe environment is artificial, the conscience of people is real taken from real people bodies, not sure what's so difficult to understand. if you take song from LP and convert it to mp3 it so being song? same with your mind taken from body to computer, is same analogy, conversion from analogue to digital, though human brain is probably closer to digital than LP
shareI agree with the points you're making, and I just want to add that places like the Quagmire exist in the real world too. Its existence in San Junipero isn't evidence that the people are unsatisfied with life there. Some people who visit those places in the real world might feel that way, but many just want to do things that might not be considered "normal" by society and need a place to do it. They enjoy it, and they enjoy life (in the real world or in San Junipero.)
shareYes, except that Kelly said that the people in the Quagmire are so lost that they "do anything just to feel something". It didn't sound to me like it was just people who liked leather and BDSM in real life and were simply finding an outlet to do it in San Junipero.
shareAre you really comparing a song to a sentient, conscious, decision-making mind?
shareGiven what they've done in the past, I thought it was ridiculous. They've already done the consciousness-in-a-machine thing in White Christmas, and it was sooooooooooooooo much darker.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2085059/board/flat/262548169
Yep. Black Mirror is all about how we use and/or abuse tech. The tech itself isn't shown as evil. Only how it can reflect upon us. Like the bees in Hated in the Nation. They were very helpful for everyone until someone else subverted them.
San Junipero is one of the positive ways this type of tech can be used. White Christmas is one of the negative ways. Neither negate each other. They're just a reflection of the people and societies that uses them in those ways.
Clever things make people feel stupid and unexpected things make them feel scared
And some other say it was horrifying:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2085059/board/thread/262619255
I'd say the end of Nosedive was pretty uplifting. Bryce Dallas-Howard finally freed herself of her constraints and was able to live the way she wanted to deep down inside.
shareMm I don't know. She might have felt good in that moment but she still has a life to lead when she gets back home. She'll be a social outcast, not able to even enter her office building, will probably be evicted, etc.
shareif we didn't see Susan i would have more problems.
i'm okay with being a social outcast if that's the society you have to live in and be fake every moment of every day. she doesn't need that job and she already has no place to live, that was a place she was sharing with her brother and her brother moved out so she has to find a different place anyway.
The question should be ...what happens when you pass through vs pass on. Would you choose the unknown by passong through vs choosing to pass on to San Juniero?
share