MovieChat Forums > Upstream Color (2013) Discussion > The Sampler's Motivation (Spoiler)

The Sampler's Motivation (Spoiler)


OK, I understand enough of this movie to be satisfied, with one exception... what was the motivation of The Sampler to kill the baby pigs in the river?

Wile I can accept that everyone in the film is unwittingly part of something larger than they are (perpetuating the life cycle of the organism), I do not understand The Sampler's want/need to kill the pigs.

Overall, The Sampler is a "good" character. He has the ability to help the sampled, and then gets the added benefit of observing their lives through his pigs. While he is a voyeur, he does not act maliciously, and his murder at the end of the film is in fact a tragedy.

So, if he is at heart a gentle, helpful soul, why kill the pigs? He apparently knows nothing of the affect this will have on the orchids, nor would he have anything to gain by that if he did know. Also, as much as he enjoys observing the lives of the sampled, I find it hard to believe he is actually out to create more of them.

Maybe I am missing the point, but is the killing of the pigs solely to advance the story?

reply

it is my view that his motivation in killing the baby pigs in the river is to keep the cycle going. the sampler appears to be a good character, who we initially see help victims by removing the worms and putting them into pigs (whose lives he is then able to observe via the pigs). this is not malicious, no.

he was the most interesting character to me. (i keep writing this in responses on this board, i feel like a broken record in saying it) and so my thinking about the film was focused a lot on him.

he had many pigs at the farm from which he was sampling, observing the lives of those he had transplanted worms from. kris was not the first. everything we see was routine for him. he knew how to lure her to him, he knew how to get the worm out and into the pig, and so on. he knew where to dump the piglets to decay into the ground where orchids grew so the orchid gatherers would come across them. he dumped them in the same spot as he always did (maybe it wasn't always piglets; maybe it was an adult pig, but in this case the piglets were born and they caused the two adults to act out.)

in any case, he knew where to dump them so that the orchid finders would come across the orchids. so that they would pot them up and sell them in their stores. so that the thief would buy them. so that the thief would implant the organism/worm into a new victim. so that he could lure that victim to him, put the worm into another pig, and have another person to observe. (this is the cycle of the organism).

i do not believe that he knew of the thief or what he was doing to these people per se, but he knew something was being done to them. they were coming to him in terrible condition and their lives were wrecked. he had files on all of them; he observed all of them. he could see the problems kris was now having observing her through her pig. he would see other people struggle with these things as well. yet he still did his part to keep the cycle going so new people would come with worms for him to remove, to put into his pig, so that he could observe them and sample them.

his murder at the end of the film seems a tradgedy; in fact, it kind of isn't. the cycle is broken with his death. he won't be there to dump the pigs in the river, to decay into the land, to grow back into the orchids, to give them the blue color signifying the presence of the organism. the thief will no longer have a supply of the organism to control victims minds ... unless he finds a new way to have a steady supply.

reply

he appeared sad for a moment, when he found out, that Pig-ris is pregnant... but he proceeded.
significant?

reply

f... i feel like a mensa member just posting on this particular internets bulletin board...

reply

"his murder at the end of the film seems a tradgedy; in fact, it kind of isn't. the cycle is broken with his death. he won't be there to dump the pigs in the river, to decay into the land, to grow back into the orchids, to give them the blue color signifying the presence of the organism. the thief will no longer have a supply of the organism to control victims minds ... unless he finds a new way to have a steady supply."

So...is this movie about the death of humanity...the cycle is broken...?

reply

If you think this cycle to be morally corrupt, then it's about ending a perverse system that ultimately leads to the liberation of the Sampled.

I think there's been a rape up there!

reply

Glad to see someone else who sees the sampler's death as a tragedy, and not as some kind of warped justice...I just hope Carruth intended it to be that way.

reply

Glad to see someone else who sees the sampler's death as a tragedy, and not as some kind of warped justice...I just hope Carruth intended it to be that way.


that was one of the things that made me want to see the movie again that much more. shane carruth spoke in person after the screening i was at, and talked about kris having a "false sense of (i forget the exact words he used, it was a month and a half ago now) ... closure, justice, satisfaction" ... whatever it was, she thought she was killing the person who started her on this journey. (the thief).


what i took from that was that she killed the person she held accountable for all that had gone wrong for her; he was the one who everything lead back to when things came to a head with her and jeff. he was the one with the file on her, he is the one who took the worm out of her and put it into his pig instead of taking her to a hospital. he, in the end, throws the piglets off the bridge so that they float downstream and decay into the orchids and the cycle completes. so that more flowers can be purchased by the thief, more worms put into people, more people drawn to him, more worms into his pigs for him to eavesdrop on.

i saw the film again and i thought about it. and the more i thought about it, no, she did not kill the thief. but in a way she did kill a person who is responsible for starting her on the journey that wrecked her life. i can't see that as wholly tragic and unjust.

reply

But why kill? Maybe he could've been arrested, his methods could've been exposed. I don't see the need for killing.

Sorry for rambling like this on multiple threads. It's just that I get disturbed when violence, especially vengeful violence disguised as justice, suddenly shows its ugly face in such a good film as this one.

reply

I think she killed him because she felt he killed her babies. Her mothering instincts were triggered by her pig getting pregnant and then she freaks out and loses it when he kills the piglets. I think that was part of why she killed him instead of arresting him or confronting him or whatever else. She was still all mentally messed up from the death of her "children".

reply

the only thing we know is the sampler observes the pigs, they are intentionally separate from other pigs.
He is preserving the other pigs in my opinion by sacrificing the other pigs.
Its like selective breeding.
He kills the pigs to preserver the larger group who were unaffected.

reply

Nobody's much talking about the Sampler's music. Kris and guy recognize it at the end, which clinches their will to murder him.

It's as though the music itself is suppressing or shaping their thoughts subconsciously. They're obviously still both in some kind of soporific trance state. I didn't see much evidence of the Sampler helping his swine-flock. It's hard to say what Carruth is presenting as the trance of pig-flock psychic dementia and what's just the trance of everyday life.

If you just look at Kris even on the surface, she's traumatized by what happened to her superficially. She believes she had some kind of psychotic break and she's really upset about it. The first thing they do once they kill the Sampler is let the victims know.

reply

I think others have made a strong argument that he understands that somehow killing the piglets perpetuates the cycle. There is evidence that he at least has perfunctory understanding of the organism's life cycle. I disagree, however, that it's an essentially benign act and that he's truly in it to benefit others.

I think it's implied that the sampler is, if anything, somewhat amoral or misguided to some degree. That's not to say he's malicious, but take a moment to appraise his motivations. He's obviously somewhat addicted to the voyeuristic lifestyle of experiencing the lives of others through the pigs. Yes he provides a service by transferring the parasite, but he does this to increase his collection of voyeuristic windows, not to benefit the infected individuals. And by viewing their lives, he surely understands that infection through the thief has incredibly negative implications for the lives the individuals that he samples. By perpetuating the cycle, he's exposing more people to traumatic social and financial ruin for his own purposes. I think you can make an argument that he's somehow studying the human condition or searching for some kind of universal truth in experience, and there are scenes that suggest he has genuine empathy for the sampled. On the other hand, he knows that he facilitates their misery and clearly lives to exist through others.

And just to jump back to the killing of the piglets, I also initially wondered if his motivation (before the full lifecycle of the parasite is revealed) was a mercy killing. Whenever two victims of the thief find each other and their pigs breed, there will always be a profound emptiness and longing in the lives of the human counterparts who feel they have offspring but actually can't have children due to whatever effect the work had on Kris's reproductive organs. Of course there's also no evidence that two victims of the thief have fallen in love before, but there's strong circumstantial evidence that many piglets have been sent upriver before.

Or, it could be that his normal method of regenerating the parasite's life-cycle is to wait for a pig/person to die (I assume one necessitates the other), and then drop the carcass in the river. It may very well be the case that this is the first time two of the sampled have fallen in love, their pigs reproduced, and he needed to dispose of piglets. This would explain his visible consternation and remorse over the situation. It's also notable that this potentially unique turn of events is what eventually triggered the collapse of the system and the Sampler's downfall.

I think that ultimately, the point of the film is to exam the inscrutable forces of life, including love, memory, biological destiny, and so on, and the parasite and Sampler are just a lens for viewing these things through an abstract situation. In that sense, he's neither good nor bad. He's like the parasite itself, simply fulfilling his function in a larger and impenetrable web of existence. That's wishy-washy as hell, but I'm not sure how to articulate it more thoroughly without seeing the film again.

reply

Just one little detail, Kris didn't kill the sampler. When the pig/Jeff is eating the sampler is observing the pig, like mirror, Jeff can sense it (through the pig/worm) then pig (Kris) comes into the scene in front of the sampler and now that Kris-Jeff are aware of the observer-sampler, she dares to look at the sampler's eye, sampler realizes his system is down (hosts are aware of him) and he gets a heart attack, her wish is to shoot him (he killed her babies -pigglets, when she went crazy and called Jeff on the phone, she said I can't find THEM, they were in the bag/river) and the sampler sees she has a gun (her desire) now is kinda she can control the sampler or so, by being an observer he is connected to them (the chain, links). Jeff and Kris can see the observer/sampler in their surroundings but the sampler is still in front of the pigs, so is the pig(Kris) looking at his eyes and then sees Kris in the farm shooting him, that is Kris rage/desire, Kris is still at the building with no gun, him with left hand at heart. Besides when she "shoots" him, his body (legs) as we see doesn't move from the impacts, he us just dyung from the heart attack. Two planes, pigs and people, to explain (in the movie) we are all connected, just some are aware sime are not.
So many things/toughts I would like to say, not many words.
I loved the movie

reply

Because there was no psychic connection between him and the baby pigs. Every pig in the pen had previously been infected by a host's parasite, so he could feel a psychic connection with those pigs.

The baby pigs were new - didn't have a host parasite and he couldn't read their psychic connection. And possibly what he could read (if anything) was too disturbing to him.

reply

So, if he is at heart a gentle, helpful soul, why kill the pigs?


I'm going to be a contrarian here to the gist of this whole thread.

I think he killed the piglets simply because -thinking like a farmer- he couldn't afford a pig population explosion. It's simply a matter of "babies are a slippery slope, don't allow even just a few". Note in the several views of his pigs that there are no piglets or very young pigs. That wasn't an accident, and he doesn't want to start now.

Tying unwanted small animals in a gunny sack, then dropping the sack into deep water, is just standard practice for older farmers. (True, the practice is unfamiliar and often unpleasant to younger citified folks.)

Despite all the arguments above, I don't think his killing of the piglets had anything to do with the blue stuff, its life cycle, or the lack of psychic connections.

In fact, I don't even think he was aware that the blue infection could be passed on during birth so the piglets were in fact infected. Both we and the Sampler never see any evidence the piglets are infected. He honestly thought the piglets were not infected, and so couldn't possibly have had any thoughts about a life cycle.

reply