The total hood on the Phantom felt a little too much. It bordered on comical.
In the productions I've seen the hood has shadowed his face, it didn't hang right down to his chin. Did anyone else find this?
In the productions I've seen, the hood/cloak has always completely covered his face (like it did in the 25th)
Nillindeiel
"You were made to be ruled. In the end...it will be every man for himself." ~Loki (Avengers Teaser Trailer)
In the productions I have seen the hood has always completely covered his face. But to be honest I personally think the 2004 film had the best 'point of no return' scene where Christine knows from the beginning it's the phantom, even though it wasn't as realistic I just loved the passion between christine and the phantom in the scene and found it made the ending even more sad when she left him.
shareI saw the stage show years ago and as far as I remember Christine recognized the Phantom's voice as soon as he started singing. I really dislike how they performed this song (it's airing as I'm typing). Forget the complexity of Christine's feelings, she's a musician: She'd recognize his (or any one else's) voice. Not plausible. Not even remotely.
I enjoy seeing different interpretations of musicals, and I've accepted that this entire performance appears to be heavily influenced by the sequel, but the way they performed "Point of No Return" specifically was a mistake (as was Raul showing contempt and trying to debate instead of comfort Christine on the rooftop in "Why have you brought me here" just before "All I Ask of You."). We in the audience recognize The Phantom's voice. It's absolutely utterly completely impossible that Christine wouldn't.
It's funny what breaks suspension of disbelief. Christine not recognizing The Phantom's voice is, well, a bridge that is too far me.
´¨*¨)) -:¦:-
¸.•´ .•´¨*¨))
((¸¸.•´ .•´-:¦:-
-:¦:-
__________
093 Lambert
OMG!!!! Colm Wilkinson? I didn't know he was going to be in this! Yay!
And a nice coda to support my point.
´¨*¨)) -:¦:-
¸.•´ .•´¨*¨))
((¸¸.•´ .•´-:¦:-
-:¦:-
__________
093 Lambert
Yes it was obvious to us that it was the phantom, but we're suppose to know it was him, either to up the fear in that scene of what he might do, or the fear of him possibly being caught in their trap.
The problem with making it clear to the audience that it is a character in disguise, is that it stretches the believability that the other characters don't see through the disguise.
So there's a balance, I think we need to give the show the benefit of the doubt, he was covered, singing with an accent, she didn't really look at him for most of the scene and was performing.
Taking all that into consideration, I can accept she (and the others) don't immediately realise it was the phantom.
Look, I'm sorry I called you an inanimate object earlier. I was angry.
The phantom tries to disguise his voice at that moment, though. He sings PoNR imitating Piangi. It isn't much...but maybe it bridges the gap a little?
Geronimo
I'm genuinely glad that it isn't bothering people, but it is still utterly implausible. Operas hire and fire based on voice and voice alone. Everyone involved in the production (and regular audience members) would have known that was not Ubaldo singing. Christine would have known it was the phantom immediately.
I actually always thought they could have added another verse to PoNR, a new verse where Christine sings first (in character), then the phantom, then Christine again fully aware that she has fallen right into the trap set for her.
But, again, I'm glad it didn't bother people.
´¨*¨)) -:¦:-
¸.•´ .•´¨*¨))
((¸¸.•´ .•´-:¦:-
-:¦:-
__________
093 Lambert
It AMAZES me that she doesn't freak out the instant he starts singing. Or if she didn't realize it by his voice (though how couldn't she, no matter how hard the Phantom was trying to imitate Piangi?), how doesn't she notice that Piangi suddenly lost a lot of weight in the two minutes he was backstage???
I know the cloak is loose on him, but really, Piangi's a big dude.
I knew you'd agree, Fluteline! :-)
What do Fluteline and I have in common? We are both musicians. My undergrad was in vocal performance with an emphasis on Music Theory and she's a musician majoring in performing arts (yes, I read people's profiles). Coincidentally, I also play the flute. And as nicely as possible, we know what we are talking about here. We're right.
BUT... I don't want to pick a fight or make anyone feel bad (except for the director who was notably NOT Hal Prince. The director should be embarrassed). Honestly, I am completely sincere in saying that I'm glad this insane staging of PoNR didn't ruin other people's enjoyment of the show, but there really is no way that every single person familiar with the performers would not have recognized that the person singing was not Ubaldo. And there is absolutely no way on Earth that Christine wouldn't have recognized the Phantom's voice the minute he started singing.
Please believe me that my gripe is with the director, not with posters who disagree.
´¨*¨)) -:¦:-
¸.•´ .•´¨*¨))
((¸¸.•´ .•´-:¦:-
-:¦:-
__________
093 Lambert
100% agree with other posters here that "Point of No Return" was just nuts in this production. I finally got to see this production last night on Netflix and was so excited to see those two in the leads after listening to the "Love Never Dies" soundtrack hundreds of times. When it got to the "Point of No Return" I was so ready for a stunning performance, since this was always my favorite song from "Phantom" and I wanted to badly for there to be just a hint of foreshadowing in this song! Instead, Christine acted like she really had no clue who was singing with her - really? That's the whole point of the song! That she's torn between acting as bait, keeping him on the stage while the police can approach, maintaining a role in front of an audience, and most importantly, she's getting seduced by her Angel all over again. This is definitely one scene that had more oomph in the film version (despite the cheesy cut-a-ways to the stage dancers), since Emmy Rossum was able to show all of Christine's emotions simultaneously, and Gerard Butler was both predator and prey, lost in his own trap.
Guess this can't be my completely definitive version of "Phantom", after all. Though I definitely felt there were many superior aspects to this production, "PONR" is a pretty major sticking point for me.
Sorry, but some of you guys really need to lighten up. I cannot imagine what it must be like to attend any typical modern film with you if you're going to get so bent out of shape over "unrealistic" things--that's the way entertainment tends to be--just realistic enough so you can suspend disbelief and enjoy it, and I think Phantom succeeds completely in this respect. Phantom is primarily about: music, costumes, romance, humor, sets, and sexiness. Realism really should only barely enter the picture--barely. I mean, it's a story about a deformed man who gives lesson to a chorus girl and then kidnaps her through her mirror, taking her down to the catacombs of an opera house to sing duets with her. The whole thing is ludicrous if you waste too much time thinking about it.
I did not find the hood comical or unbelievable. I've seen the show live six or so times and I don't recall a radical difference.
I loved the performance of PONR for the most part. If anything I'd say Christine's vamping was a little over-the-top. I enjoy this number so much I've watched it MANY times, but each time I feel slightly pervy watching her, even as a straight woman. On one hand, she's beautiful, but on the other hand, it's like--could you be just a LITTLE bit more subtle? She's just a notch away from bending over suggestively, licking her teeth, or performing sex acts on the fruit with her mouth, but these are very minor complaints, I still loved it.
I agree with you, LittleChou
As for Christine's "vamping", yeah... it's a little annoying but at the same time, within the musical she's performing an Opera, so her being a little more over-the-top makes sense to me as her actions, within this fictional opera, would have to reach the fictional patrons in the back of the fictional theater (sorry, wanted to see how many times I could throw the word 'fictional' in there ). It's like in Il Muto when she, as "The Pageboy disguised as the maid", exaggerates the movement of her rear end when she bends over to dust the furniture.
As for every thing else in this thread
I said it before I've seen it on stage several times and the hood was present each time, covering his face each time, and each time the Christine I've seen was surprised/didn't realize it was him until she caressed the side of his face through the hood and felt the mask beneath. Most of the Phantoms that I've seen have added an Italian flair, sung with a difference to their voice while singing to add to the 'illusion' that he's still Ubaldo, up until the moment that Christine realizes and the 'spell is broken' type of thing and they drop the accent.
Anywho... yeah, I thought the 25th was very true to what I've always experienced the times that I've been able to see POTO on stage. But that's my view.
Nillindeiel
"I won't touch Barton, not until I make him kill you. Slowly, intimately, in every way he knows you fear, and then he'll wake just long enough to see his good work and when he screams I'll split his skull!"
~Loki to Black Widow, 'The Avengers'
"Are you ever not going to fall for that?"
"Humans think us immortal, shall we test that?"
~Loki to Thor, 'The Avengers'
Yup, Klomystr. Just completely nuts for all of the reasons you wrote.
Obviously the singing is way better here, in a different league, but Emmy Rossum's acting was spot on.
I get how it could seem like nitpicking but it's not. It's glaring, impossible to ignore or dismiss even though she wants to, suspension-of-disbelief-breaking Critical Research Failure to a musician.
It would be like writing a movie about Babe Ruth and having him run around the diamond in the wrong direction as the crowd roars. Or a movie about Lance Armstrong cheating to win the Tour Del Spania.
I don't play baseball or give a hoot about cheating psychopathic cyclists, and I wouldn't care about those changes, but it would annoy the heck out of people who know those sports.
A singer knows voices. Trust me.
I checked the libretto: Christine is specifically supposed to be visibly startled the moment the Phantom begins singing, "...his first words startle her." She tries to continue the planned blocking, but she obviously knows the whole time that The Phantom is under the cloak.
Christine has been seduced by the beauty of The Phantom's voice. Not recognizing that voice? Implausible. Sorry. As implausible as if he weren't wearing the cloak at all. As ludicrous as believing Superman is unrecognizable while hiding behind nothing but a pair of glasses. She'd know his voice the minute she heard it.
I have no idea what they were thinking.
´¨*¨)) -:¦:-
¸.•´ .•´¨*¨))
((¸¸.•´ .•´-:¦:-
-:¦:-
__________
093 Lambert
[deleted]