This isn't a question pertaining to this version in particular but in general. It seems like a lot of people hate the Raoul character and I've always wondered why since I've always liked him.
"Don't they know they're making love to one already dead?!"
Love Les Miserables!!!
I don't know about hate. But certainly if thd phantom dies his job, you want him to get Christine at the end. In love never dies he is more of a 'hateable' character lol
shareHadley does play him as a bit of a prick though in this version.
shareI never thought of him as a prick in any version TBH. It seems like LND was written exclusively for Phantom/Christine shippers.
I just never got the hate for Raoul and the love for the Phantom who is merely just obessesed with her, manipulates her into thinking he's the "Angel of Music" her father sent to her, and kills as well. Raoul on the other hand truly loves her and wants nothing but to protect and care for her. The only time I hated Raoul was when he used Christine as bait to try to catch the Phantom, which was a pretty dumb move but that wasn't completely his fault either. I know that's not a popular opinion but that's just how I feel.
"Don't they know they're making love to one already dead?!"
Love Les Miserables!!!
I agree with most of your assessment. Well written as well.
shareI just never got the hate for Raoul and the love for the Phantom who is merely just obessesed with her, manipulates her into thinking he's the "Angel of Music" her father sent to her, and kills as well.
I think it's more because the Phantom is more of a tragic character that you want to root for and Raoul is a bit on the too good to be true side. Raoul comes off as the stereotypical rich guy who got the girl, while the pitiful and complex Phantom is left rejected. I think that's why Raoul gets hate. It's kind of like Les Miserables (and I hate making this comparison and I'm only doing it cause you are a fan of Les Miz) with Eponine fans who seem to hate Cosette who seems to do nothing but look pretty and get the guy while Eponine has more of a tragic ending and life.
"I don't believe in getting even just getting what you deserve"
"Done" By The Band Perry
raoul and christine are childhood sweethearts... she finds safety with him... when it comes to the phantom, yes he is a bit insane but it is a deep and soulful connection between the two... you SHOULD end up hoping phanty wins... is raoul a prick? usually not... though he was a bit arrogant and kind of meanish in the 25th... people say to tie in with the character in love never dies... but yea, i think raoul is a boss of a character but i will always hope the phantom wins lol
It's not an S... On my world, it stands for hope.
Since you guys seem to have a great deal of experience with the musical I have what will surely be perceived as two idiotic questions. But I have just returned from taking my son to see this as his first experience and we were both left with questions. Is the Phantom's being a serial killer outside this theatre (killing at multiple theatres) ignored completely in the musical or is the audience to "overlook" even the murders that happen there when the managers don't do as he commands? Or are we to believe he has been driven to kill and in a manner that absolves him of the murders? And second, of a thousand more I wish I could ask, at the end the Phantom disappeared as the police were taking him in. Was this symbolic, are we to directly know what it means or is it open to interpretation?
I couldn't get past the Phantom being a murderer to "pull" for him even though I cried as they sung "Music of the Night?" Our showing had almost no sexual tension and that was odd and may have misguided my feelings towards the Phantom. Actually in ours I wasn't sure that either character knew what they were "supposed" to be to the other. Help me, please. I feel as though I missed so much that should have been "obviously felt". Perhaps it was poor directing or simply my ignorance of this musical but I am left with so many questions it distracts from my enjoyment of the show itself.
-- (killing at multiple theatres) --
He only killed there. He never went beyond the Garnier.
IMO he only kills for self preservation. Piangi, well he never existed in the original novel so ALW heaped a murder on him which he never committed, so I have a question about that as well.
Buquet, he was talking too much and in the original novel I did not see that murder as being intentional. So he heaped another murder on him which I believe and was eluded to in the book distinctly as an accident.
When he vanishes at the end, I believe he went to commit suicide.
In Music Of The Night, the Phantom was trying to seduce her, and if it was done well and there was chemistry between the actors you would have felt it...ahem, right where it counts. If the actor who played the Phantom did his job right you should have felt it.
I know this is like 2 years later, but hopefully by now you have read the novel and can see what Webber has done to the story. If you have not read it yet, its a great read and so is Phantom by Susan Kay.
The musical itself, well as much as I love it, has its flaws.
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I’m not sure why the absence of sexual tension was odd to you. Christine is not supposed to have sexual feelings at all for the Phantom. Only fear and pity.
Adding sexual tension between Christine and the Phantom was one of the things the movie got WRONG.
I guess they think he's weak and arrogant and thought of Christine as a possession. But I totally disagree. I love Raoul, and Hadley made him attractive, warm and fiery. Other portrayals of him are weak, but Hadley was magical on that sage. I never wanted him more :)
I believe Raoul loved Christine enough to fight for her, and Hadley's Raoul did just that :)
Why do I dislike Raoul?
Because he barges into her dressing room and dismisses her protests against taking her to supper, by talking over her and making arrangements despite her telling him that isn't what she wants to do.
He then proceeds to tell her, to her face, that she is delusional and mock her worries about the Angel of Music as sentimental tosh, implying he thinks she's out of her mind and / or stupid. He refuses to listen to anything she has to say on the matter.
Once he realizes the threat is real, he says "You don't have to / they can't make you," then turns around and heaps a guilt trip on her to the extent of "but if you don't, we're all screwed."
So, yeah. Controlling, demeaning of her fears, and a bit emotionally manipulative. Not exactly a winner.
In fairness, Erik is also a murderer and emotionally manipulative (much as I like the Phantom, and feel sorry for him, I have no delusions about his flaws), so Christine would be better off chucking both of them and finding her own life elsewhere. But then, she's frightfully codependent and naive.
Yet, it is still my favorite musical. Go figure.
Christine belongs with Raoul, not Erik.
shareI don't hate him. I've heard the recording with Michael Crawford and Sarah Brightman, seen the play live in the States (I do not remember the actors' names), and watched the Royal Albert Hall version (the best, IMHO) over and over and I never hated or disliked the character. I particularly like Hadley Frasure's version of him. I think he was quite kind and patient with Christine (who can act like a bit of a mad person at times (even though it's understandable!)).
I don't understand how people feel sorry for the Phantom, when he kills innocent people without regard or reason. Yes, his background and existence are sad, but still... don't take it out on random chiefs of the flies and tenors, lol.
~...can you tell me, yeah, as a mate... is the bottom half of me on fire?~
-- don't take it out on random chiefs of the flies and tenors, lol. --
You can thank Webber and Webber alone for those murders. Erik always had reasons. That is why to many Phans this version is not the best.
Watch other versions of the Webber one and you will see how poorly done the Royal Hall was, with the exception of the singing and acting which was top notch.
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You can thank Webber and Webber alone for those murders. Erik always had reasons. That is why to many Phans this version is not the best.I'm a bit confused- didn't Webber write the original musical? Or are you referring to the novel the musical was based on?
Yes the original novel, I never ever thought Erik killed without reason. I always really hated what Webber did there with just making him a maniac killer for no reason. I really don't like what he did to Raoul either, don't get me wrong, I love the music and all that but as with most adaptations it just lacks.
Phan, yes I love that one as well. I see it written alot in the "Phandoms" :)
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I confess I've never read the book- I need to put it on my to-read list.
Honestly, I'm kind of hypocrite asking how people can feel sorry for the Phantom, because I do at times, during "All I Ask of You" when he's listening to Christine and Raoul singing and covers his ears. And at the end, when he lets Christine go and crawls over to the music box to put his hand over the monkey's eyes. But I think that's more due to Ramin's incredible talent than anything. 😊
~...can you tell me, yeah, as a mate... is the bottom half of me on fire?
Yes Ramin is incredible. Any Phantom though if he is good enough, has you feeling sorry for him at one point or another.
Yes the book is worth a read if you like the stage version, there are others and many other adaptations.
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Any Phantom though if he is good enough, has you feeling sorry for him at one point or another.
Well everyone feels for Erik differently. So I suppose its just an individual's take on the situation as a whole.
RAH is, yes the best we have for now, but if you take a look on You Tube you can catch some pretty good bootlegs including one with Ramin, I prefer his performance there rather than in RAH, its sadder and angrier. They really made him tone down for RAH, which I don't understand why.
Like you were saying you can see RAH very well, the bootlegs, not so much but you still get the feeling.
The book, I love, its different from the stage performance. Its a short read, I love the other versions of the story as well. As well as the other stage versions.
:) Enjoy
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Because people would rather side with a psychopathic murderer for the sake of “OMG Gerard Butler is SO HAWT!!!!” and/or “OMG what a tragic backstory Erik has!”
share