MovieChat Forums > Inside Llewyn Davis (2014) Discussion > Llewyn was no Dave Van Ronk

Llewyn was no Dave Van Ronk

posted 9 years ago by cityforever1974
4 replies | jump to latest

I find it incredulous that the Coens' cite Dave Van Ronk as inspiration for Llewyn Davis. Dave Van Ronk was a key figure in the Greenwich Village folk music movement in the 60's and 70's. He was a guru to the likes of Bob Dylan, Tom Paxton,Joni Mitchell and a host of others.

Van Ronk inspired a movement. To infer that ten years after this movie was to take place, Llewyn was expected to have such legendary status boggles the mind. Who in the movie even followed him? His record producer had no respect for his talent. The music mogul in Chicago viewed him as a performer with not much more than intermediate ability.

As far as inspiring others, Llewyn showed little respect for any other performer. He treated Troy Nelson (based on Tom Paxton) with contempt and viewed him as some sort of hick. When Troy, Jan and Jim sang Five Hundred Miles at the Gashouse, he was taken aback when he notice the audience singing along. He shouted obscenities at autoharp-strumming Elizabeth Hobby and demeaned the Irish quartet singing The Auld Triangle to the point that he had to be ejected from the premises. These are not the acts of a great leader and teacher.

Inside Llewyn Davis was a movie of a lost soul stuck in a loop which seemed to have no happy ending. The only similarities between Llewyn and Dave Van Ronk was Greenwich Village and folk music.

[–] homergreg 9 years ago

Inside Llewyn Davis was a movie of a lost soul stuck in a loop which seemed to have no happy ending.

How do you think the reveal that the cat being named Ulysses and Llewyn marveling at the poster for "The Incredible Journey" fit into your assertion?

I don't know enough about Dave Van Ronk, nor what the Coen's said about him as inspiration for the character to say anything about any comparison between the fictional character and their inspiration. I just find that one assertion about still being stuck in the loop intriguing.

[–] cityforever1974 9 years ago

Try to educated yourself about the movie's inspiration:

http://www.villagevoice.com/music/dave-van-ronks-ex-wife-takes-us-inside-inside-llewyn-davis-6650942

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/jan/10/inside-llewyn-davis-dave-van-ronk

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/meet-the-folk-singer-who-inspired-inside-llewyn-davis-20131202

[–] homergreg 9 years ago

Thanks for the articles! I read them and watched the video of Mr. Van Ronk's performance. It's quite apparent that Llewyn isn't Dave Van Ronk. The person just isn't the same. Van Ronk sounds like a very amicable man, and Llewyn did not come across near the same way. I do like Mr. Van Ronk's sound.

I still am intrigued about the concept of Llewyn being stuck in his loop. Was the single journey to Chicago and what he found out about himself there just part of the loop? Was him finding out the cat's name was Ulysses and him being awestruck at the Incredible Journey poster part of some loop? I see those things as pieces that show him going on an odyssey to break his loop and begin a new journey. How do others see those things as pieces of being stuck in a loop?

Like I said, I agree with you that they strayed far with the character from the inspiration of the character. The real Dave Van Ronk and fictional Llewyn Davis are both folk singers and that's about it as far as commonalities go. I just happen to see Llewyn as emerging from that loop vs. being stuck in it.

[–] nystulc 9 years ago

The real Dave Van Ronk and fictional Llewyn Davis are both folk singers and that's about it as far as commonalities go.

I agree that Llewyn is a fictional character. However, the similarities go far far beyond the above. Llewyn is obviously and clearly inspired by Van Ronk:

[1] Working class family background.
[2] The cover of "Inside Llewyn Davis" matches the cover of the album "Inside Dave Van Ronk" (which has a cat on the cover BTW).
[3] Both sang "Green Green Rocky Road", "Dink's Song (Fare Thee Well)", and "Hang Me Oh Hang Me".
[4] Van Ronk had a down-and-out phase during the late 50s that matches what we see in the film (which, however, takes place in the early 60s). Van Ronk's down-and-out phase included participation in (at the least) petty crime.
[5] Van Ronk made a road trip in the late 50s to the Gate of Horn in Chicago to see a Mr. Grossman, only to suffer rejection; and this same Mr. Grossman (at a later date in the early 60s) offered Van Ronk a role in the band that was to be Peter Paul and Mary. We see the same happen to Llewyn, except they are combined into a single incident.
[6] Both, upon their return from said Chicago road trip, discover that they have lost their Merchant Marine seaman's papers (their backup plan), obliging them to continue as folk musicians.
[7] Both wear short beards.
[8] Both were often quite contemptuous of other folk musicians.

That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more.

Incidentally, I have read "The Mayor of MacDougal Street", and I do not share your high opinion of Van Ronk. Though clearly, he is a hero in his own mind.