MovieChat Forums > Chained (2013) Discussion > Great potential - some brilliance - but ...

Great potential - some brilliance - but ultimately badly flawed SPOILERS

posted 12 years ago by radicon1
7 replies | jump to latest

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS

It might seem odd to go into so much as I'm about to over this kind of film, but I agree with one of the public reviewers in saying that I can only have patience for this amount of ugliness if there is a reason for it and it makes sense. The kinds of flaws and mistakes the film contains push it perilously close to being pointless - but at the same time the brilliance it contains is impossible to just throw away.

IMO the BIGGEST FLAW in the WHOLE story as it's presented is the mother rape scene. In a strangely (brilliantly) sensitive presentation that this whole film otherwise is, that part is overly obscene and clumsy - especially in the context of the way the rest of the film unfolds. It may be MEANT to be that way - MEANT to be an assault on the viewer's sensibilities out of all proportion to anything else in the story - but IMO the way it's done is actually at best out of balance with the rest of the presentation and at worst is just plain wrong - as in poorly/clumsily done and doesn't even make sense. Don't get me wrong, especially in a grusome gothic style plot and story I didn't actually find it excessive or extreme or overly personally confronting as such - especially in context - but I simply found it awfully JARRING - a feeling that only grew stronger as time went on and I watched more of the rest of the story. At the very least it should have had the father slam the door shut on the camera so we come to understand what's going on via what we then hear - not thru the clear (tho not explicit) images we are actually shown. That sort of imagery is otherwise absent thruout the rest of the film - especially with regard to sexual content - the mismatch is a big mistake just on that basis alone - even ignoring the flawed meaning.

That scene ultimately fails outright tho because it explains and shows a deep SHAME but doesn't explain why there's anger and hatred of "all the whores". I think maybe the sons AND the father (drunk father) should have arrived home together to find mother in bed with another man - then what follows could be a credible trigger for Bob's hatred - ie. by being forced into that shameful act by his father BECAUSE of his mothers behaviour.

Whilst undoubtedly being absolutely brilliant in parts - ie. leaving us afraid of Bob and revolted by what he does but not necessarily hating him - and drawing us into the incredible relationship between Rabbit and Angie just to name a couple - this film in other places is every bit as awful and flawed as the best parts are brilliant. The last part in particular seems oddly rushed and messy - perhaps because it's been edited / cut down? (the lack of resolution with Angie's situation may be intended deliberately as a device but to me it just came across as incomplete and clumsy). Keep in mind the boy's character IS consistently shown as NOT being anything like Bob or being likely to go that way...- so to imply that via the sound under credits at the end - if that's what that was supposed to mean - is just humbuggery and annoying. As other people have said, I'm also looking forward to a "Directors' Cut" or "uncut" version.

[–] submachine 12 years ago

doesn't explain why there's anger and hatred of "all the whores".

Because, due to his fathers forcing, his mother pushed him and rejected him.

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[–] McQualude 12 years ago

I can't agree as you haven't articulated why the mother/son scene fails other than it was obscene, clumsy (both obviously intentional) and made you uncomfortable.

|Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

[–] eanewman-392-181161 12 years ago

I myself questioned that extreme hatred of women, based seemingly on this act. My husband, who was himself the victim of terrible abuse as a child, explained it to me like this: Many abused kids, especially boys, grow to hate women if their mother was either somehow complicit in the abuse, or denied them comfort from it. In his case, his mother would witness the abuse, do nothing to stop it, and then imply that it was all his fault. Then, she would rush to comfort his father...apologizing for the kids getting him so upset that he was forced to do those things to him. Granted, my husband doesn't have the level of hatred for women that Bob does, but he isn't shy about admitting that he hates his mother and women like her (women who stand by and watch their children be abused, and do nothing to stop it,side with and protect the father from punishment, or abandon them). As he puts it, her failing to protect him, and then rejecting him, was a betrayal that was far worse than the actual abuse, and in his mind totally unforgivable. As I said, he is quite hateful to women that in his mind fall into that category, and has little to no sympathy for them.

[–] Mehki_Girl 12 years ago

The OP wrote a lot of words but he said nothing. He never explained why he thought this scene was this or that except to repeated himself for long paragraphs of nothing.

However, you have explained the deep hatred well. I'm not going into Freud, but a lot of men deep down inside do not like women. I think it is the sexual power that women have over men. Men want sex and society tells woman they must withhold it. (Frankly, I think gay men who have very casual sex act like men would act if woman "allowed" them to.)

Men also are very easy to sexually pattern, which is why you have more fetishism in men (I recall reading an article written by a man in law enforcement who dealt with sexual crimes saying that he good create a fetish in a 15 year-old boy in 15 minutes. Woman, however, are wired a little differently brain-wise. Anyway, he said all he would have to do is show the boy a naked woman then a boot, naked woman then a boot, naked woman wearing a boot, then only a boot and you'd have a man fixated sexually on boots.)

However, yes, your husband got the scene right. The husband perpetuates abuse on the sons, the mother is passive and does nothing to have removed them years ago or to help them now. The son is forced to have sex with his mom and then she pushes him away (rejects him) with disgust adding even more insult to injury, then rushes to the husband to comfort him.

(I've never understood that. How could a woman sit there and watch anyone abuse her children??? And I don't want to hear the BS about her being abused. You want to stay and be abused, stay and be abuse, but when your children are involved some sort of instinct should come into play. Even animals will die defending their young.)

The scene wasn't really acted that well and kind of looked thrown together, but the abuse that was witnessed could indeed create the monster it did. The mother becomes a whore because the father says so, she has sex with her own sex and did nothing did resist. He hates his mother. He hates all woman. All women are whores.

[–] dbb79 12 years ago

Please never mention the words "chained" and "brilliant" on the same page again.

[–] nikkiten1979 12 years ago

Nice usage of words, vocabulary, grammar - but at the end... you said absolutely nothing.

IMO the BIGGEST FLAW in the WHOLE story as it's presented is the mother rape scene. In a strangely (brilliantly) sensitive presentation that this whole film otherwise is, that part is overly obscene and clumsy - especially in the context of the way the rest of the film unfolds. It may be MEANT to be that way - MEANT to be an assault on the viewer's sensibilities out of all proportion to anything else in the story - but IMO the way it's done is actually at best out of balance with the rest of the presentation and at worst is just plain wrong - as in poorly/clumsily done and doesn't even make sense. Don't get me wrong, especially in a grusome gothic style plot and story I didn't actually find it excessive or extreme or overly personally confronting as such - especially in context - but I simply found it awfully JARRING - a feeling that only grew stronger as time went on and I watched more of the rest of the story. At the very least it should have had the father slam the door shut on the camera so we come to understand what's going on via what we then hear - not thru the clear (tho not explicit) images we are actually shown. That sort of imagery is otherwise absent thruout the rest of the film - especially with regard to sexual content - the mismatch is a big mistake just on that basis alone - even ignoring the flawed meaning.

I don't understand how this is even a "flaw"? The scene was part of Bob's nightmare. We see it through him as a nightmare - so it's not a flaw. A boy being forced to have sex with his mother in front of his father will be clumsy, awkward, uncomfortable. The imagery is quick and not explicit. He dragged and beat women, showed him sleeping with one of them while she was dead or bleeding to death - we don't need to see him slashing and raping. The movie was as consistent as it needed to be. Extreme consistency would give us a boring, predictable movie.

(•_•)

can't outrun your own shadow

[–] nikkiten1979 12 years ago

That scene ultimately fails outright tho because it explains and shows a deep SHAME but doesn't explain why there's anger and hatred of "all the whores". I think maybe the sons AND the father (drunk father) should have arrived home together to find mother in bed with another man - then what follows could be a credible trigger for Bob's hatred - ie. by being forced into that shameful act by his father BECAUSE of his mothers behaviour.

Everyone reacts differently to abuse. Bob was beaten, abused - mentally and sexually. Not every abused person will grow up to be an abuser, rapist, killer - but he did. He had a lot of anger towards his mother because HE feels she didn't protect him. We also don't know what his mental state was prior to that. We don't know his health history, if had the "violent" gene (not everyone with a violent gene turn into serial killers). All we know and what he need to know is that the guy was the result of his environment (and maybe more.)

(•_•)

can't outrun your own shadow