MovieChat Forums > Begin Again (2014) Discussion > Did not like the end [ Spoiler! ]

Did not like the end [ Spoiler! ]

posted 10 years ago by hraban
29 replies | jump to latest

Hello there,

This is the very first discussion on IMDb I start although I've been following those for years. But this time it overwhelmed me with realization of being fed what is thought to be right.

This is not the first movie, and most definitely not the last, that leads to a point where main characters face the choice - be together or get back to their exes. They spend cheerfully the whole movie together hugging, walking, playing music and living through the most fascinating times of their life. They are in love, both realise this fact. But here comes the "right" part: they abandon each other in favor of people they do not love or, even worse, people who betrayed them.

I appreciate that most of society tends to think that we should not change partners, it's always a good idea to restore previous relationship other that dump them, we need to get back to our family, etc. But this point of view is outdated by decades! The world we live in has changed, people appreciate their time much more and do not want to waste it for something that is doomed anyways. Why are we still being fed those stereotypes and shown "right" things to do?

I hated the ending of Once. They clearly loved each other but decided to create problems of nothing - neither of them loved their exes but still made that horrific decision. (Okay, it was Marketa Irglova current husband but they did not even live together)
I now hate the ending of Begin Again. Why did he return to his ex-wife who once betrayed him and the family? Dan and Greta were given a unique gift by the destiny, it's hard to find a true soulmate. And they waste it into trash bin shortly after.

[–] jesus_sanchezz 10 years ago

I never really saw their relationship as a romantic one. What *I'm* sick of in Hollywood films, is the idea that the male and female lead need to end up sleeping together at the end of the story.

I was very worried this film was heading in this direction towards the end, but was so glad it stuck to a much more realistic ending.

Guess what, in real life, men and women can become emotionally close without becoming a couple - especially when they've only known each other a month or two.

[–] megcouch 10 years ago

Exactly. I just knew they were going to force the usual Hollywood pap before it was over. That it was allowed to end another way made for a refreshing change, and made each character's love story with Music that much sweeter.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] keOron2010 10 years ago

That is what I was about to say as well. I'm so glad the movie didn't go that route of main characters sleeping with each other. Furthermore, it was clear that Ruffalo's character still loved his wife even though she really hurt him. It was just that he couldn't recover and get his life in order, until he met his "muse" (Greta). I think that OP is wrong in thinking that people always cheer for people when they stay together - rather, they expect the character to walk away and be with someone new when the other part of the couple messes up and/ or cheats. This is what OP expected. I don't think Greta was his soulmate in a way that we have come to expect it to mean but, rather, his "soulmate" in life. What they have now - the respect, friendship and professionalism - is much more deeper and special and lasting than having a typical relationship. This is what makes this movie so beautiful and sweet. I, honestly, didn't want it to end.

[–] DiamondTear 10 years ago

The leads not kissing was the best part of the movie.

[–] dmph1208 10 years ago

The leads didn't have to get together or kiss. He should never have ended up with Keener, though.

[–] harlequinade17 10 years ago

I agree, they didn't even try to make her interesting or likable at all, it made no sense seeing how amazing him and Gretta were together and unlike Miriam she didn't hurt him and treat him like *beep*

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[–] doggie_rodriguez 10 years ago

The leads didn't have to get together or kiss. He should never have ended up with Keener, though.

I like that they didn't kiss either, however, I did like that there were a few long glances. I felt like they both respected each other and were attracted to each other, but were smart enough no to pursue it.

I didn't like him going back to Keener either. The way she left him was awful and really messed up his life. Then he has some success again and she wants him back. Not a good character at all.

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[–] baileyfam7-186-791156 10 years ago

The character of Gretta served Dan's story by showing him he could be excited for music again. She brought his family back together. And Dan served Gretta's story by helping her find herself in her music. It wasn't a love story, but one of redemption.

[–] redice-1 10 years ago

After all, this was a really great movie with a really stupid ending…

There was the emotional fire, that's what led us to watch it…
but at the end, all we get is this: ….and they lived happily ever after… blah, blah, blah….

[–] MisterNick 10 years ago

Yeah, I'll get in line with many of the other replies. For the two leads to end up romantically would just be totally cliché, even for a fairytale like this one.

[–] jmsholt7 10 years ago

Agreed. Just saw this with my wife and I loved it. Thankful this wasn't an Ashton Kutcher.

[–] jlprizm86 10 years ago

What's an Ashton Kutcher? 😁

[–] doggie_rodriguez 10 years ago

Sounds like a really awful sexual position.

I gave her the ol' Ashton Kutcher. (and then we never went out again)

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[–] jlprizm86 10 years ago

Nice interpretation. I might start using that..maybe it'll catch on.

[–] jmsholt7 10 years ago

Oh my God. I didn't mean it that way, but I think I will start using it, too. I think I cracked a rib laughing.

[–] mikeywilldunk 10 years ago

Hm, i see all of your points. Here's a couple I'd like to make:

Gretta left the concert, officializing her break-up with her BF.

If we embrace the idea of second chances, we see how both Gretta and Dan gave their partners second chances, but Gretta's bf ultimately "married" the pop-star life while Dan's wife didn't show a continuous pattern of betrayal.

To be honest, I equally disliked how Dan went back to Miriam. On the other hand, it could show Dan's maturing evolution from being an angry mess to a place of forgiveness. Finding a soul who shared his life struggles and musical passion revitalized him. Gretta's sympathy for his relationship problems gave him the strength to stop wallowing. His guilt for neglecting his daughter was just guilt at first but turned into a resolve to make things work, partly thanks to Gretta's sympathetic reminder of his neglect. Maybe Gretta served as a catalyst to build up Dan's courage to forgive and give his wife another shot.

On the other hand, in the OP's defense, in "real life," sharing the intimate moments of walking through NYC, riding subways, sitting at random steps, dancing, and breaking the law together all while listening to or creating music together, FOLLOWING traumatic betrayals with their romantic partners, has GOT to spark some sort of romance, just by human nature. I don't give a damn about cliches: if it's beautiful, meaningful, and believable for them to be together, then let it happen. In the end, I find Dan and Gretta's restraint against crystallizing a romantic relationship to be... unrealistic but yes, refreshing as well.

[–] dmph1208 10 years ago

Very well said. I agree. Happy endings can be just that. Doesn't have to be Hollywood.

[–] mdmzara 10 years ago

I think Dan going back to his wife was explained by Dan himself when he said to Greta "you have no idea what happens between two people who have been married for 18 years." Dan and Miriam had history together. We only heard about the one bad part of their history where she cheated and he hit bottom But in those 18 years there were probably a lot of good times. I'm not condoning the wife's cheating, but she probably didn't do it because she stopped loving Dan. It was probably more because she was unhappy with something about herself. Ya know? It probably made her feel young when she was feeling old or something. At any rate, it was clear that she still had feelings for him: checking him out in the shower, being a tiny bit jealous of Greta, the fact that she wasn't dating anyone.

[–] wqxyzcj 8 years ago

Dan and his ex wife had maybe ten minutes of scenes together. They argued ninety percent of the time. Making him end up with her was absolutely pointless. You can assume that their relationship used to be good for the most part and that she still had feelings for him, but why would you have to ASSUME it based on a few obscure hints in 100+ minutes long movie? What's the point?

[–] bsharporflat-50959 8 years ago

Dan and his ex wife had maybe ten minutes of scenes together. They argued ninety percent of the time. Making him end up with her was absolutely pointless.

It wasn't pointless. We were misdirected. The film's title appeared to refer to Gretta and Dan. But in the end we learn it referred to Dan even more.

We were shown the emptiness and the hole in Dan's life from the beginning to the end of the movie. We were shown his relationship with his daughter and even there, we are given a sense that something is missing. We were eventually told the story of Dan and Miriam's break-up and how it was mostly Miriam's fault.

We had the potential for romance between Gretta and Dan. There are a couple crucial scenes where we wonder if it is going to happen and we are left wondering if it was just the age difference or if there is something else.

The headphone splitter was a symbol. It showed that what was between Gretta and Dan wasn't something new. It was the replay of the original romance between Dan and Miriam. Gretta found she needed to carve her own path. Dan found that he needed to forgive Miriam. Though Miriam wasn't on screen much, she IS an A-list actress. A clue that she is always hovering in the shadows of Dan's screentime, even if we can't see her.

[–] wqxyzcj 8 years ago

So, you are basically saying that Dan ending up with his ex wife is a good ending because most of the evidence and character development pointed to him ending up with Greta? How does that make sense? A twist doesn't instantly make for a good ending. And why is it fitting for Dan to end up with his ex wife because their relationship was similar to his and Greta's (and what are you basing that conclusion on? A "symbol"?)? If their relationship were that great and worth starting again she wouldn't have just ditched him for some random "fun" guy and he wouldn't have pretty much given up on everything and considered suicide until meeting Greta. How do few obscure clues and theoretical posiblities top all the things Dan and Greta have gone through together?

[–] diane-kenny 9 years ago

I see it a bit differently.

They didn't fall in love. They had some moments together. They clearly cared about each other and not necessarily in a romantic way.

They helped each other through some very rough times in their lives...and there was definitely an attraction.

But, it wasn't love.

I liked that fact that the film didn't go there.

[–] eljay60 9 years ago

I really appreciated that the film showed adults coping with the messiness of a grown-up world, and doing it with honor and grace. And I appreciated even more that it emphatically showed that love and sex are two entirely different things. Gretta pretty much loves everyone, from James Corden's character to the daughter to Troublegum. She loves herself, and is centered enough to be able to give and forgive.

Dan's situation is lots messier, with a marriage vow, a child, a drinking problem, and a tanking career. Exactly what is he bringing to the table for this beautiful idealistic girl a few years older than his daughter, that they can't have in a close friendship and working relationship? Sex would just (excuse the pun) screw up something beautiful.

Perfect ending.
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[–] safeweb310 9 years ago

In addition to all the comments that have been made prior to this, I think that dan and his wife showed subtle indications that they still like each other and understand a lot about each other all through the movie. When he was in her apartment, getting ready for the meeting and taking a shower, there was flirting. later when he was making the video in the park and included his daughter, there was more connection. They didn't have spell out the fact that these two were still attracted to each other. Plus they had a kid. I think it totally fits that they got back together. Both had baggage and the other one accepted it.

[–] kenny-164 9 years ago

Hm, interesting thread. I wonder about the ages of those who were on either side of the debate about Dan going back to his wife. The reason I mention age is it might make a difference how your own experience about someone you love hurting you and how you nonetheless still love them and forgive them might affect your view of this film.

Age differences aside, on an objective level I think the film contained enough references to Dan still loving his wife and being invested in his family to show that is what he wanted. If it could be made to work. And as someone said this is a film about redemption, not a conventional love story. Gretta found redemption as well, but so did Dan.

Certainly Dan felt that Gretta was attractive, and there were definitely moments she was behaving in a way that would make his character wonder that she would be open to him attempting to kiss her, and even more. But she didn't push it, either, so on that level she did not take the initiative and move their relationship in that direction (or attempt to - not to digress here, but if she had, I for one would have found it very difficult to resist). But her not doing so left the initiative in Dan's hands, and that is a different dynamic.

Another factor is that while Gretta is Dan's muse and means of finding a path to redemption, he also recognizes he is mentoring her, at least in the ways of production and in encouraging her. In the early part of the film he has to get her to trust his ability to help her and also guide her. Having obtained that trust, should he then add into it a romantic element? It's a complex situation. And that complexity can affect, and adversely affect, the artistic endeavor they are sharing and benefitting from.

That all might not have been enough of a barrier, but Dan did still have an attraction to his wife, and a desire to make good on his nearly lost commitment to his family. It in fact might have been easier to stay away from his wife and go with Gretta, but he still loved his wife.

Someone earlier in this thread thought that the way Dan was hurt, the adultery he knew about, should have been enough to lead him permanently away from his marriage. For many it would be enough, depending in the situation. But we do not know the whole backstory. Maybe he felt some responsibility for what happened before. Even without that, though, maybe he in addition to still loving his wife felt there was enough between them to rebuild. Catherine Keener gives this great little expression when Dan is about to get into the shower and asks her to join him, like she was just about to say yes, or at least thought it would be fun if she did, even if she did not. She was still interested in him, and I think held back because she saw him as a mess who did not make a good husband. But by the film's end that had changed, and he won her back.

Also at the end we do not see Gretta regretting seeing Dan back with his wife. I think that means two things. One is she felt even if she was interested in, even loved?, Dan that his love for his wife would get in the way of any future between her and Dan. But it also may have meant something else - she needed some time before she could even consider entering into a new relationship after leaving Dave.

All in all, a very interesting, different and I think satisfying ending.

[–] rollerskater61 8 years ago

Gretta was not romantically interested in Dan. He was down and out, aging, alcoholic, unkempt, and involved with his own family. They had a respectful, working relationship, took the time to get to know one another, and thru Gretta's vitality and insight Dan got his new beginning. Dan probably loved her, but I doubt she ever entertained thoughts of him. Until the very end Gretta's mind was on Dave.

[–] wqxyzcj 8 years ago

*Spoilers*

Despite it being a cliche, I hoped that Dan and Gretta would end up together. And yes, I know that there have been several threads posted about this already.

People end up together in real life too, one way or another, all the time. It is only a cliche because it has been featured in the movies often. But when it comes to such movies, at least to me, it's more about the journey than the destination. And the journey was wonderful one way or another, but the destination-in that regard-was simply mind boggling and it would have been much better had Dan and Gretta got together, even though that would have been a cliche.

Yes, Dan and Gretta ending up together would have been predictable and sort of a cliche. But unpredictable doesn't equal good-neither does predictable. And the ending wasn't that unpredictable in thar regard anyway, considering that John Carney previously directed the movie "Once" which ended with two main leads getting back together with their cheating exes at the end (that's what happened, according to IMDb posts and Wikipedia summary-I haven't watched the movie).

But the worst part was that Dan had no chemistry with his ex wife. They barely had any scenes together. Watching them together by the end was so forced that it was almost nauseous. The main problem is that Dan and Gretta had more potential to become a couple than the person he actually ended up with, and none of the problems between him and his ex wife were ever revisited or resolved.

Finally, his ex wife was barely in the movie, so why have Dan end up with her at the end? I know that it wasn't a big part of the movie but it was supposed to be the result of that "journey"-his wonderful journey with Gretta-and a part of a closure for his character, show him get back on the track-after all the things he had gone through with Gretta... you get the idea.

It made absolutely no emotional impact and didn't feel organic. That's truly mind boggling. It is like most of the people only like the ending because it wasn't cliche, but don't care that it ignores the character development and, I daresay, logic in general to some extent.

Yes, chemistry is subjective, but if two people have less than ten minutes of screen time in total over the minutes long movie, that centers around one of those characters and his fellow protagonists, and the first mentioned pair argues 90 percent of that time... I mean, did anyone root for Dan and his ex wife to end up together? Hoped, at least? Did anyone even consider that while watching the movie?

Have Dan and Gretta go through so much together, only to have one of them Dan up with the person who was barely in the movie-as a result of him getting his life back on track thanks to Gretta. I honestly can't phatom the way the writer (also the director) or the producer or anyone involved with the plot basically, even considered that, let alone actually carried it out.

And yes, in real life Dan night have ended up with his ex wife rather than with Gretta (and let's ignore the fact that this is not a real life, but a movie with it's own internal logic that creates itself through the events featured)... but why have him end up with her (his ex wife) without featuring almost anything that led up to that?

And yes, I am probably taking this too seriously, but I've never seen a movie fail so bad in such regard, and I've seen plenty of movies, both better and worse than this one. It is baffling and almost tragic, since the rest of the movie is beautiful and inspiring. One exception may be John Carney's previous movie, "Once", which has a similar ending. I won't watch it, ever. I don't know why this guy has a thing for creating poignant protagonists only to make at least one of them end up back together with one dimensional cheating *beep* at the end, and frankly I don't want to know.

Ross Morin described "The Room", one of the worst movies of all time, as "the Citizen Kane of bad movies". I daresay that this, "Begin Again", is "The Usual Suspects" of bad movie endings.

[–] billqs 8 years ago

One exception may be John Carney's previous movie, "Once", which has a similar ending. I won't watch it, ever.

If you don't watch Once, you are missing out on a real treat. It's an awesome movie with even better songs, though the acting is Purple Rain level bad.

You know, just once I'd like to meet an alien menace that wasn't immune to bullets!