Starvation / obesity
So, there do seem to be simultaneous epidemics of starvation and obesity. On its face that seems totally f-cked up. What is going on, and how can we make things better?
shareSo, there do seem to be simultaneous epidemics of starvation and obesity. On its face that seems totally f-cked up. What is going on, and how can we make things better?
shareI think the solution is obvious. Feed the fat people to the poor.
shareFeed the fat people to the poor.
Well if you want to get all serious about, the causes are myriad. Historical (colonialism and other enriching of some nations at the expense of others), cultural (through propagation of class systems, consumer culture etc.), political and economical (creating a climate where exploitation of some is profitable while others live in excess off of it, i.e. most of us); psychological (both due to various biases in the human mind that hinder empathy towards large groups of people and through problems with impulse control); educational and systemic (like healthy food and exercise and good education about them not being as available in schools etc). There are too many to list, especially since I'm on my phone (and of course I'm only aware of part of them). Suffice to say that I don't think it's surprising that we are seeing these two issues arise simultaneously.
But that aside I would guess that these are probably some of the more solvable problems we are facing. There's ready been quite a bit of progress in fighting poverty and the percentage of people living below the poverty line is smaller than ever by a considerable margin. Obesity may be a more nebulous problem but I don't see why it wouldn't be improved upon through addressing some of the issues mentioned above. Ultimately I think both of these problems can already be solved by reallocation resources in a reasonable way. Unlike some other issues, we don't necessarily need to come up with some really novel solutions to address them.
The answer is simple. Excuses. Some BS about trickle down economics, it would be to expensive to get the food everywhere, we need to help them help themselves, it would break our economy to feed everybody etc.
Essentially making a real difference would mean a significant change to our lifestyle. A drastic reduction in vanity products. Refocusing of the industry on products and services that help those in need. Most of all though, a willingness to sacrifice our standard of living to create a better world for everyone.
Neither the people, the governments nor the corporations of this world are willing to this. Real change takes sacrifice and despite people telling themselves they are a good person and despite all major religions telling them to help those in need, everybody has an excuse to sit on his ass and do nothing.
It is literally impossible to solve poverty. It is not a matter of political will, since it literally (not in the figurative sense, but literally) cannot happen. Not in this real world, maybe in a fantasy magical world.
shareBut poverty isn't the problem. Even poor Americans don't starve to death (the food is here). But regions where there's a lack of food, where there was enough previously(can't have people without food), something happened, such as bombs destroying a country's infrastructure, the climate ... ummm ... changing, and political crap (U.S. destroyed Africa's soil by mono-cropping coffee-beans and sugar, and made them poor by paying slave-wages to the workers).
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Steps to a great life:
Watch Twilight Zone
Listen to Wayne Dyer
Go vegan
It is called nature. Sometimes you receive a good harvest, sometimes you don't. The native lifeforms dying off until it reach the carrying capacity of the local habitat is part of nature. Who are we to interfere with the natural course of life?
As for external man-made factors such as war, what do you suggest? That the US should intervene in foreign countries?
Of course you can solve poverty.
Poverty is a construct, just like economy and supply/demand.
All it takes is will and effort.
Solving poverty would require that nobody be poor, even people who willingly refuse to work. Which would in turn imply providing a decent amount to every such person. How would that work in today's world?
shareObesity stems from the anxiety of modern life as well as poor quality food. Starvation stems from the anxiety of sub-modern life coupled with a shortage of food/resources (inducing reproductive frenzy and hence, a further shortage of resources).
What it says is that we're all anxious. And that we all have a fear of starving. In some societies, hyper-reproduction is the only answer (i.e. fattening up the whole of society) but others have the luxury of individual fattening.
GARAK: "Fear of starvation amid plenty. It points to some dark secret hidden in the human soul. A gnawing hunger. Perhaps someone should do a study." -Star Trek, DS9
Poor people can't afford food, rich people buy too much food.
shareBuy a sense of humor, chuckles.
shareit's too expensive and non profitable for us to ship our food to the third world. thats why you shouldnt buy into the whole gmo is evil *beep* gmos will be able to grow in third world countries where the soil and weather is *beep* if the idiots take down gmos starvation wont be fixed anytime soon
share[deleted]
Healthxx is dead on. Yeah, there are things we all can and should do to be healthier. However, the deck is really stacked against the average consumer, and especially the poor. Obesity is a poor person's problem in the main, because the rich have all kinds of help at their disposal. They can hire people to grow or buy healthy food for them and fix it so it is tasty as well as nutritious, for example. They can hire trainers, have tennis courts or whatever built at their homes to make exercise convenient.
Poor people can't even buy healthy food to begin with, because it costs more. They also are working long hours for low wages, so they don't have the time or energy to educate themselves about nutrition, or read labels, or prepare healthy food if they had it.
Try reading labels. Sugar is even in products that should be innocuous, like canned vegetables and soup. Usually it is added in several forms so that it doesn't have to be the first item in the list of ingredients (which are supposed to be listed in order of percentages in the food). Therefore, there will be 4 or 5 forms of sugar so it can be listed a little further down the list of ingredients, including sugar, corn syrup, brown sugar, dextrose, sucrose, fructose, dehydrated cane syrup, etc., etc.
Dairy is snuck into products under a variety of names, like something toxic that the manufacturers are trying to dispose of on the cheap: milk, nonfat milk, dried whey, milkfat, butterfat, dried milk solids, etc., etc.
What you might not know is that animal based foods like meat and dairy are extremely bad for one's health, and responsible for many of the main deadly ailments that non-subsistence level populations have. For example: Cancer, heart attacks, strokes, and less deadly problems like rheumatoid arthritis, to name just a few. There is a direct correlation between the amount of animal foods a country uses and the prevalence of a dozen major diseases. Try reading The China Study. The government knows about the problem, but there is no way the powerful meat and dairy industries are going to let them inform the public.
Semper Contendere Propter Amoram et Formam
Obesity is caused by eating too much food don't be stupid, eat a big mac and fries only each day and you will lose weight.
shareWhy is this surprising? If there is a limited amount of food in the world, and some people are eating too much of it, then...
What next, surprise that we have rich people AND poor people in the world?
We are doing better.
World poverty has drastically decreased since we first started to address the problem in the 60's, despite the dramatic increase in world population.
The proportion of the world's population living in extreme poverty today is less than half it was in 1970. Infant death rates have also been drastically reduced; in 1960 20% of children under 5 died, by 1990 it was 10%, now it's 5%.
That's just some stats I can recall this moment.
Aid does work: it's a damaging nihilistic irresponsible myth that it does not.
For more info. and what you can do (and perhaps should do) to help, just google the Effective Altruism Movement or go here.
http://www.effectivealtruism.org/
For the philosophical/ethical arguments for our duty to help to be truly moral/magnanimous people, read any of the works by Peter Singer on the topic:
The Life You Can Save (2009)
The Most Good You Can Do (2015)
Famine, Affluence, and Morality (2015) (A collection of Singer's writings on the topics going back to his paradigm shifting essay "Famine, Affluence, and Morality written in 1972).
He has a recent good TED talk on these matters as well:
https://www.ted.com/talks/peter_singer_the_why_and_how_of_effective_altruism?language=en
For a more economic approach, check out "The End of Poverty: Economic Possibilities for Our Time" Jeffrey Sachs (2006)
We have, and have had for some time, all the resources needed to end poverty. The problem is the lack of political will to disseminate those resources equitably. But we have still made great progress despite this, but not enough: as long as even one person dies from lack of basic needs (food, shelter, medical care, clean water, sanitation, etc.) that is one too many.
(And no, I'm no Singer disciple and I've read all the counterarguments to the philosophic/ethical arguments for significant aid giving as well as to the political/economical arguments for significant aid giving and find them lacking; and yes I--we--live well below our means to give tens of thousands each year to poverty relief: it's the least we can do to be the type of people we like to be...something better than just decent).
Don't you see anything wrong with the juxtaposition of starvation and obesity? What's to be done about that?
Separately, I thought that the persistence of poverty was one of the great sociological conundrums. Is poverty the fault of the affluent, in your view, since "we have all the resources" to end it?
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You want thingamabobs? I got twenty!
Achun,
No one wants to hear the answer regarding Obesity.
(pardon my typing, I'm dealing with kidney stones on both sides and a massive does of painkillers)
Fat people are generally embarrassed to be fat because it's one of the few areas left where people can be cruel to others without an outcry. Fat people have bought into the BS spread by people who have no idea what it's like to be fat. Those same people who think being obese is about over eating. The same people who say "eat less and exercise" will fix it when obviously it does not (exercise and fitness awareness has risen sharply in the last few decades right along side obesity, so something is off).
It's an epidemic because obese people don't know how to fix it while at the same time people with lucky genes, upbringing, and availability of healthy foods have no understanding, sympathy, or mercy about it.
Face it, obesity is caused by a blend of things:
1. Genetic factors (yes, this has been scientifically backed up so many times it's ridiculous). So for the skinny people out there stuffing their faces with pizza thinking that fat guy must each so much more than them, well, usually not. I've known so many people who have no right to be thin or healthy with the way they eat and I've known so many fat people who try to eat less and exercise and just don't shed the pounds as expected.
2. Little or No food education. How are kids supposed to know that eating pizza for lunch at school everyday is not healthy? The school seems to think it's fine. Poptarts are advertised as part of a nutritious breakfast, but they are HORRIBLE for you. They have every ingredient you could ask for to cause obesity. Did you know that you are not supposed to consume more than about 7 teaspoons of added sugar a day? Most children exceed that before they leave home in the morning for school. If not, they'll have WAY surpassed that by the time they get home from school. See, that extra sugar doesn't just cause weight gain in someone who is not active. That amount of sugar is actually a hepotoxin, so the liver and gall bladder try to protect the liver by immediately converting and storing sugar to fat. You don't get a lot of choice in the matter.
See #1 above, everyone processes these things a little different depending on your genes, which help determine your metabolism, etc. So you have two kids, both eating the same exact thing... Kid A can deal with 9 added teaspoons of sugar a day before the liver starts storing it, and Kid B can deal with 6. Kid B starts getting fatter.
Now Kid B gets made fun of and bullied, while Kid A is considered normal. Not only that but Kid A is regarded as proper, healthy, active, and respectable. Kid N is regarded as abnormal, gross, lazy, and an example of how you do not want to be.
3. Rarely does anyone sit down to a home cooked meal anymore. Even when they do, see #2 above. Do people have any idea what they are putting in their food? Not really, because the food industry does everything in it's power to conceal the horrible crap they put in food to make it taste better for cheaper.
So, for the most part we rush around looking for cheap and convenient. We're too busy and things cost too much these days ($1.50 for crap orange juice with added sugar and water, $4.50 for good stuff). Have you checked the nutrition info on Ramen noodles? It's just short of being poison.
Those health bars people eat (cliff bars, etc.) might have seemingly healthy ingredients, and some really seem to try, but if you look at the proportions, usually one of those bars has more than a meal's worth of protein or fat, or carbohydrate and people eat them like snacks.
Fruit juice? If you drink more than a glass a day, you are just filling up on sugar.
Don't get me started fast food. A Quarter Pounder + fries from McDonalds hits the LIMIT of sodium you should consume in a day. Guess what? Almost everything else out there is packed with it, including sweet drinks and things like doughnuts, so you better not eat or drink anything else except water the rest of the day.
The USA has made an industry of making you unhealthy and it's completely legal to mislead you into thinking it's not nearly as bad as it is. These companies are allowed to do terrible things to our food and divulge it in the most convoluted and difficult to understand means.
That muffin has 24 grams of fat. WOW, that's kind of a lot, right? For ONE muffin? But you've been doing good, so you cheat a bit and eat that muffin. Oh, crap, you check the nutrition information again.. 24 grams of fat per serving. Well, how many servings could one muffin be? Oh.. THREE. So there you go with 72 grams of fat. Who splits a a friggin muffin in THREE servings? No normal person. The manufacturer doesn't care. You paid for it and ate it. That's success to them. Sneak a candy bar once in a while? It's anywhere from 2 to 4 servings. They KNOW what they are doing. They know if they print it honestly, people would be less likely to buy it. So they are legally allowed to screw with you.
So, honestly, what are the alternatives? Life in the USA, if you're not lucky enough to be wealthy, pretty much demands cheap and convenient food sources.. and they're almost ALL bad for you.
Subway, eat fresh? Maybe it's better than McDonalds, but not much.
If you are diabetic, you are doubly screwed.
So, the ONLY WAY to fix obesity in the USA is to:
1. Get educated on nutrition (and I'm not even talking about advanced stuff, just basics, as in, how much sugar am I really consuming? How much is okay? What is hydrogenated vegetable oil? How much fast food is safe?) and learn to shop and cook properly. Get used to the fact that all that yummy stuff you want, you just can't realistically put in your body and expect to be healthy.
2. Love yourself first, regardless of your weight, and then resolve the make changes involving exercise and activity. Start small!
3. If you are one of those gifted people who can eat what they want, for the most part, without immediately ballooning up, have a soul and realize for some people it's the most difficult thing they will ever do.
Seriously. Scientific tests have shown that Sugar is more addictive than Cocaine*. You may laugh at that but consider very very few of us are exposed to Cocaine on a daily basis, whereas we're ALL exposed to sugar on a constant basis, in one form or another (slice of white bread? Sugar. Baked potato? Sugar.).
*
http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2015/01/07/sugar-health-research
http://abc13.com/health/study-sugar-is-as-addictive-as-cocaine/533979/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23719144
So take a heroin addict who has decided to quit and have him hang around heroin all day and have his friends and family all shoot up heroin in front of him constantly, everyone on TV shooting up heroin, heroin on sale!, heroin cheaper than aspirin.. tell me if that dude is going to have the willpower to quit. No way in hell.
THAT is exactly what obese people face every day, no matter how hard they are trying (and add to it that you have a biological NEED for some sugar, so you can't just avoid it). And what do they get for failing? They get made fun of, ridiculed, thought of as lazy and gross with no willpower. It's insane and I find it incredibly sad.
4. You're just going to have to make more time to fix healthy foods. Who has the time? Well, who has the time for heart attacks, diabetes, stroke, high blood pressure, etc...?
It's a horrible trap that the US has gotten itself into, and frankly no one wants to get their heads out of the sand who can actually help make real changes. Every time I hear Michelle Obama and her trite little "Let's Move" campaign, I want to vomit. FAR too little too late.
By the way, there was a report done in the 60s (i can't remember the name right this moment 😞) in the US that explicitly warned the government of the upcoming obesity epidemic. The #1 cause known even back then? Sugar. Well, the Sugar lobby (which is ENORMOUSLY powerful) basically told them if they published that as is, many parties would not be getting re-elected. Instead they focused on a secondary cause, fats.
So, we got a low-fat warning. This resulted in a low-fat food craze that never quite went away (and actually helped usher in trans-fats and partially hydrogenated vegetable oils, which are far far deadlier than lard ever was). The only way to make food that has had the fat drastically reduced taste good? Yep, add more sugar.
So have a little care for overweight people you see and don't be a dick. They've got pretty much EVERYTHING set against them.
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I'm neither a Liberal nor a Conservative... I think for myself.
Yeah. Blame it on the genetics (whoa! what else is new?) and government (society should give people more education about nutrition and what is healthy foods).
By your theory, individual itself is never responsible. It's always some 3rd party that we can't change (genetics) or somebody higher (government, society) that should do something.
Get your lazy ass off the couch. Walk, don't drive. Take stairs, not elevator. Do some sports, not just watching it from TV. Simple as that.
About genetics - there's a saying: "There are no fatties in concentration camp". Meaning that no matter what your genetics are - if your body consumes more calories than you eat, you can't gain weight. And it's an universal rule, whatever genes you claim you might have.
I agree with you about food education - being skinny or avoiding obesity doesn't definitely mean that you're eating healthy. But being obese certainly means that you should do something about your diet.
Advising exercise without supplementing with good quality and quantity nutrients will actually lead to more health issues and earlier death. Sweat is more than just water and sodium, refer to Dr. Joel Wallach. Gatorade and any other conventional sports drinks won't work either, we all need 90 essential nutrients every day. FOOD DOES NOT HAVE THEM EITHER. Minerals are not in the soil for the plants and animals to take in.
The reason people overeat, anyone, whether skinny or obese, is because their bodies know they need the nutrients and aren't getting them. Even with "healthy" food. Sure, it's better than junk food, simply because it doesn't have chemicals. But "healthy" food still does not contain all the nutrients we need.
Science has also proven that genes are not a guarantee of any condition. Genes are affected by outside factors, it's an area of science called epigenetics. Genes can be turned on and off.
Starvation is not healthy, and people in concentration camps starved.
Obese people are actually malnourished also. They did get too much sugar, starch, which resulted in accumulation of body fat. Another factor is mineral deficiency, which when corrected will allow them to process what they eat.
In a way, it is not a person's fault, if they've constantly been told incorrect information regarding health. And then you have addiction, which is difficult to fight, especially if you don't have the proper tools.
I'm a distributor for Dr. Wallach's supplements. His company was founded in 1997, and the products are science backed, clinically proven to support good health. If anyone is interested, I can give you a link to an intro video from another doctor who has used the supplements to great success with many of his patients. Click on my username and message me that way. No tricks, the true way to good health.
By your theory, individual itself is never responsible. It's always some 3rd party that we can't change (genetics) or somebody higher (government, society) that should do something.
Get your lazy ass off the couch. Walk, don't drive. Take stairs, not elevator. Do some sports, not just watching it from TV. Simple as that.
You let fat people off the hook too easily, but your rant about the US food industry is spot on -- especially the bit about the deceptive food labels and the presence of salt and sugar in foods where they don't belong.
And here's a serving size anecdote to add to your pile: every loaf of bread I've ever checked lists the serving size as one slice. Who makes a sandwich with one slice of bread?
Educating Americans about how to read deceptive food labels would be a great first step toward improving eating habits.
Fantastic rant! 10/10 ***** A++ would read again!
I agree 100% with everything you said. One of the main reasons people are fat is because a group of completely moral-free people are making a ****ton of money out of it and they don't care who dies while they line their pockets. Huge multinationals take what are often waste products* and manufacture cheap "food" from them. They sell them to people who can't afford anything of higher quality and then have the bare-faced cheek not to pay any tax. Leaving healthcare systems with the burden of type II diabetes, heart disease and a raft of other obesity related conditions. This has had one rather hilarious consequence: The military in the USA recently said that it is finding it increasingly difficult to find candidates with sufficient physical well-being. That nearly fried my irony circuits.
I'm glad to find other people with a lucid understanding of the toxic environment big business has created around us in its search for ever higher profits.
octo
* Meat slurry is a particularly revolting creation. HFCS is a health pandemic on its own. Ditto trans-fats. The list goes on.
Thank you sooooo much for posting this, especially:
So take a heroin addict who has decided to quit and have him hang around heroin all day and have his friends and family all shoot up heroin in front of him constantly, everyone on TV shooting up heroin, heroin on sale!, heroin cheaper than aspirin.. tell me if that dude is going to have the willpower to quit. No way in hell.
THAT is exactly what obese people face every day, no matter how hard they are trying (and add to it that you have a biological NEED for some sugar, so you can't just avoid it). And what do they get for failing? They get made fun of, ridiculed, thought of as lazy and gross with no willpower. It's insane and I find it incredibly sad.
The more Africans you feed, the more Africans will breed. Eventually you will be feeding a population of Africans that is more than your own population.
If you value sustainable practices, isn't this very contrary to it? To breed such an excessive population of Africans?
According to some theories, junk food generates obesity, but the body is actually starving for vitamins, minerals etc. which is one of the reasons for gorging, as the starvation for vitamins and minerals drives the body to consume more food, but instead of food, we ingest junk food, empty calories and junk that needs to be expelled out of the body ... requiring more vitamins and minerals.
So, junk food is a mortal obesity starvation diet, fortunately most people eat some real food, as a supplement to junk food.
But this is not what the movie was talking about.
How can "we" make things better? First step is to realize you were lucky, second step is to realize you were very lucky. The third and most important step is to know that just by typing on this forum means you have no idea what a real problem even is. A disaster for you is not being on facebook/twitter once an hour. Just take my word for it you have no clue what is going on in the world and there is nothing you or anyone can do about it. Watch the world burn(or rather the humans on it), it'll all sort itself out in time.
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